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Thread: post office

  1. #1
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    Are post offices owned or leased by the state or are they federal buildings?
    941.235 Carrying firearm in public building.
    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Useful statutes: 44.51(2) and 20.001(1).



    Just wondering if wisconsin law or fedral law applys to them. Because fedral law and Wisconsin law have diffrent deffinitions of what is a firearm whith wisconsin being more restrictive.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Are they named "The Wisconson Postal Service" or "The United States Postal Service"?

    They are Federal Property, including the parking lot for most of them.

    They are covered by the Code of Federal Regulations 232.1 (I)

    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.


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    And self-defense is not a lawful official purpose because that's the cops' job.

    This is one of the advantages of CCW.

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    my thought was that the fed dosent included antieque and C&R as as fire arms ( A muzzleloader, even one that was made today is concidered an antieque) And also you can mail order subsitute black powder without problems and actual black powder with a $27 fee added to the shipping costs. So it may be legal to open carry a muzzleloader in a post office and not be doing anything illegal. Although a cap and ball revolover would probly not fall into the antique catagory.



    I just want to point out that this is all just my random thoughts and I havent looked into any of the laws that would be relevent to this idea.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    The prohibition of other "dangerous" weapons would still apply.

    The definition of "official" is up in the air. The code refers to "official purposes" but uses the term official by itself and in conjunction with "government" and "postal".

    In other areas of the code it specifically refers to "official government" and "official postal". A full reading would leave one to believe "official" has a meaning not necessarily connected to government purposes.

    So what does "official" really mean?

    Am I covered openly carrying into the post office to mail a certified letter for "official Lockman family business"? Or to pick up my company mail in my "official" capacity as Secretary/Treasurer?





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    I like you use of the word official. I would hate to be in an arguent with someone who can twist words like that.

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    There is another citation to the USC covering weapons in a PO that IIRC refers to 'lawful purposes'. This is the citation that I recall being posted at the entrances to POs in SC.

    18 USC 930

    Code:
    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in 
    Federal facilities
    
    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly 
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in 
    a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to 
    do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 
    year, or both.
    
    [ ... ]
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
    [ ... ]
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons 
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

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    Wow you can not carry in a post office but you can carry in a federal court facility. Hmmm.......whats up with dat?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    18 USC 930 would not apply if the gun is carried for lawful purposes, which self defense certainly applies as lawful. It is the CFR regulations that are more ambiguous and most likely to get you a summons.



    I can’t fathom self defense not being a lawful purpose considering “hunting” is classified as lawful. If the state issues a specific grant of privilege for self defense I would certainly conclude that would preclude any prosecution under 18 USC 930.



    39 CFR is another question but that is not a felony, yet.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    18 USC 930
    Code:
    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in 
    Federal facilities
    
    (a) ...(other than a Federal court facility),...
    I am not clear on the hierarchy of USC and CFR.

    Title 39 of the CFR ("39 CFR") is a rather broad category, is it not?

  11. #11
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    I was referring to the "official" clause in the prohibition of weapons on postal property contained within that portion of the CFR.

    I believe the difference is that "USC" is law passed by Congress. "CFR" is law that passes because Congress fails to stop it from becoming law. In a nutshell that is the way it was explained to me.



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    Here is the e mail and phone numbers to a usps postal inspector milwaukee wis.

    F.N. Mondry

    e mail- fnmondry@uspis.gov

    414-287-2200

    Fax 414-287-3009

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    Who will tell you what the government wants you to hear and what he wants you to believe. It is not a crime to speak in error to a citizen. It is not a crime to lie to a citizen.

    On the law you should believe only your attorney and that you have paid for his services and then his effort is proportional only to how much you paid him.

    Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting worldview.

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    Doesn't the US post office fit the definition of "Public building" or "government building".

    I thought WI law as pretty clear that any building that is leased, owned or occupied by any govt. entity or political party was off-limits to firearm possession.

    or is itbecuase it is a federally operated facility that makes the WI laws not apply??

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    You are, of course, right, but I think that the discussion had drifted away from Wisconsin statute to CFR/USC.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Just got to change that.

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    Aren't postal carriers allowed to carry?

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    No postal carriers can't carry!I work for the usps in milwaukee 53222 and asked my boss about the open carry issue and he said NO guns! My boss has more guns than i do!

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    I believe that the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USPS employees being armed on the job.

  20. #20
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    Either way, my PO has a sign on the door glass stating no weapons. They are not a private business though...After all, I am a part owner. :P
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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