Who should I call? (other than an attorney)

imported post

Last weekend, a friend of mine from South Carolina came up to visit me - I live in the resort area of the Outer Banks.

He had a loaded Gloc 40 pistol in the glove compartment. He is a concealed weapons permit holder. SC is reciprocal with NC. I held a SC permit as well, until I changed my address to NC several months ago.

We all went to a bar that evening and because I had to work the next day, I went and sat in the car around midnightand waited for the rest of them. We planned to catch a cab home at closing.

I was sitting in the car asleep, the car not running, and I am snatched out by the local police thrown on the ground with guns pointed at me.

I was charged with DWI. Possession of a concealed weapon, going armed to the terror of the public. I never removed the gun from glove compartment. If I had, there would have been shell casings, and someone would be dead because they were threatening my life. Period.

My friend who owned the weapon, showed the cop the documentation that it was his rental car, his weapon, and that he was permitted. The cop threatened to take him to jail and seized the gun. He also informed him that my entire group had specifically called a cab - a van - to take us home.

I HAVE NO CRIMINAL RECORD. NOT EVEN A SPEEDING TICKET.

I have an attorney but would like to take it further than that. This was truly an abuse of power by the police. Any recommendations on who I should contact?

imported post

Where on the OBX do you live and which PD charged you?

imported post

I live in Wanchese. My fiance has deep roots - her family is in the fishing industry.

The Nags Head Police Department are the ones who arrested me. At Kelly's Restaurant and Tavern.

imported post

Were they keys in the ignition?

That is the key point for DWI, not if it was running. If they weren't, then all of this should be thrown out.

DWI: Car wasn't running, I was asleep waiting for my friends to be finished.

Concealed weapon: tougher because you were in the car with it. Was the glove box locked? May be able to get that thrown out, as they had no reason to bother you in the first place

GATTTOTP: None of the criterea were met for that charge.

Then sue them for false imprisonment and violation of a bunch of your rights.

imported post

Hows it going Bmerciful?
I've had several run in's with the police and a small minority will act as this officer did. He will overract and in the end make an ass out of himself, the only thing is that in the process it will probably take you a couple thousand dollars and countless hoursto clear your record. First of all if you weren't operating the vehicle(keys in the ignition) then i'm pretty sure he can't charge with DUI. I have been personally been caught intoxicated in the seat of a car without the keys in the ignition and been told I wasn't violating any law. But nowadays the law seems to be up to the discretion of the officer who should only enforce them and not try to define them.

As for the gun, I know booze and guns don't mix at all in North Carolina so that's probably why he took your friends gun. It seems to me most of the charges are border line bullsh*t. Plead ingnorance to the fact that there was a gun in the car, by that i mean just tell them you didn't know. Everything else seems like it should be easily handled by the lawyer, and that going in armed to the terror of the public charge is absolutely useless.

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others.

First of all that law is so vague you could have the judge dismiss that charge on that grounds alone, you could get charged for walking out of your yard with a baseball bat on a public road if someone felt "terrified". Keep in mind that i'm no lawyer, nor do i claim to be just stating my opinion. But again going with the ignorance plea, how are you going to posses a gun you don't know about, then you would have had cause the "public" terror. It's my understanding that law was created to protect the sheeple, and if you were sleeping in your friends car how did anyone get terrified?

that my .02 cents, I wish you well man, I hate to see people getting abused in any way shape or form. Lawyers are great for these kind of things, but if the police officer was better trained and better paid we probably would'nt have to deal with this... and now you're going to have spend much needed money in this economy to deal with officer dickhead.

imported post

I know, the GATTTOTP charge is crazy. From my research, itis some archaic law from 1839. Only actual convictions I've found are people with other serious felonies. The least serious was assualt with a deadlyweapon with intent to kill. I even saw one that was posesssion of weapons of mass destruction.

When my attorney pulled up my charges he was shocked.

As much as I hated to do it because I disagree with alot of what they do, I contacted the NC chapter of the ACLU. After court, I am going to sue the pants off of them if my attorney thinks I have a case.

Not for money. For pure principle. I did not deserve thisand now it isaffecting my family. I feel very lucky my employer knows me well enough to know this is total horseshit and they have allowed me to keep my job despite me not having a license for 30 days (I refused to blow). the attorney says this is a good thing.

imported post

First of all write a very diplomatic letter to the PD commander and all in the chain of command as well as the local state representative and make sure it has all the "carbon copy" addresses on the bottom. Request a follow up action on the offending officer(s) and then request your weapon and CHPstatus be returned to what it was prior to the incident. If that doesn't happen the"Lawyer up Dude"! It'll be a long hard ride and you'll need a good one that is 2A versed. Good luck!

imported post

1st of all there ismore to this story then has been told. And yes if you where in the car with the keys and you where drunk, you can be charged with DWI. As far as the GATTTOTP what I have read a lot of people get charged with this but no one gets convicted of it. Judge throws it out, dosn,t help your record. You or your friend had a problem, being in public dirinking with a firearm. I added the last part to show cops cant drink and have firearmseither.

Going Armed to the Terror of the Public

This is a common law offense (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495).

A person guilty of this offense

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons (firearm)

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others

(3) and goes about on public highways

(4) in a manner to cause terror to others.

In order to be charged, all four conditions need to be met.
[font=BernhardModBT,Bold]

[align=left]D. Transporting Weapons[/align][/font]

[align=left]Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever vigilant to ensure their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon, either on or about them, without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North Carolina, or recognized out-of-state concealed handgun permit. Therefore, the permittee's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed, and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile. Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily accessible to an occupant of an automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of North Carolina law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle. It is our recommendation that firearms should not be carried in a glove compartment regardless of whether the compartment is locked or not. While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon. As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety. Another obvious drawback is that a valuable weapon may be in plain view for potential thieves to see. The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to "long guns" as well. Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law.[/align]

[align=left]It is unlawful for the permittee to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol, or at any time while the permittee has remaining in his or her body, any alcohol, or a controlled substance previously consumed. However, a permittee does not violate this law if a controlled substance in his or her blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)[/align][font=BernhardModBT,Bold]

[align=left]III. POSSESSING AND CARRYING FIREARMS[/align]
A. Carrying Concealed Weapons


[align=left]5. Sworn law enforcement officers, when off duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer’s body.[/align]

[align=left][/align]

[align=left]http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf[/align][/font]

imported post

was it your car?

if it was not your car, and not your gun and the person that owns the gun was inside a place where carry is prohibited and the car was right outside, i cannot fathom how the illegal concealed gun charge will stick...


edit: did they give you a roadside sobriety check for the DWI without your lawyer present?

if so, have your lawyer get it tossed out...

basically because the state is alleging you were under the influence; as a necessary part of that allegation you would also be under the influence to a point where you would be incapable of understanding your rights to have an attorney present and to remain silent... thus anything they did on the side of the road, any questions asked and any tests done are inadmissible...

i know it is rather sneaky, but it does work...

imported post

bperciful wrote:

SC is reciprocal with NC. I held a SC permit as well, until I changed my address to NC several months ago.

Click to expand...

Don't you still have the SC permit? If so, and it is not expired, it is accepted by NC.

imported post

Seems to me also that the govt. will have to prove constructive posession by you.

Sounds like you are not familiar with interacting with police and the legal dangers of consuming alcohol and you probably gave consent for searches and tests, spoke to police etc. You need to get a great lawyer, and spendwhatever it takes to make these charges go away.

imported post

I would agree with Redwolf that there is more to the story than has been shared here and I can understandmaintaining ones silenceabout the situation to avoid it coming back to haunt the person.

I ran a search on the appropriatecourt calendar for July and only one person is listed with a "Going armed to the terror of the public" charge. There is no charge for DWI or CCW violation listed for that person.

I would be most interested in why the officers approached the vehicle in the beginning if it was sittingin the parkinglotwithout the motor running.

My suggestion for an attorney would be to find one out of the local area such as from Raleigh, etc.

imported post

Go talk to a defense and civil rights atty before you do anything. Make no statements and most certainly do NOT write them to explain your side of the story. Nobody cares. Sue them and get the charges dismissed.

imported post

Mike wrote:

bperciful wrote:

SC is reciprocal with NC. I held a SC permit as well, until I changed my address to NC several months ago.

Click to expand...

Don't you still have the SC permit? If so, and it is not expired, it is accepted by NC.

Click to expand...

If you move from SC then your permit is revoked.



http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP#6

(J) A permit is valid statewide unless revoked because the person has:

(1) become a person prohibited under state law from possessing a weapon;

(2) moved his permanent residence to another state and no longer owns real property in this State;

Click to expand...

imported post

PT111 wrote:

Mike wrote:

bperciful wrote:

SC is reciprocal with NC. I held a SC permit as well, until I changed my address to NC several months ago.

Click to expand...

Don't you still have the SC permit? If so, and it is not expired, it is accepted by NC.

Click to expand...

If you move from SC then your permit is revoked.



http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP#6

(J) A permit is valid statewide unless revoked because the person has:

(1) become a person prohibited under state law from possessing a weapon;

(2) moved his permanent residence to another state and no longer owns real property in this State;

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

and a good lawyer will find a way to argue that the Defendant's permit is not revoked because either (1) he did not move permanently from SC and/or (2) he still has an interest in real property in SC.

imported post

Mike wrote:

PT111 wrote:

Mike wrote:

bperciful wrote:

SC is reciprocal with NC. I held a SC permit as well, until I changed my address to NC several months ago.

Click to expand...

Don't you still have the SC permit? If so, and it is not expired, it is accepted by NC.

Click to expand...

If you move from SC then your permit is revoked.



http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP#6

(J) A permit is valid statewide unless revoked because the person has:

(1) become a person prohibited under state law from possessing a weapon;

(2) moved his permanent residence to another state and no longer owns real property in this State;

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

and a good lawyer will find a way to argue that the Defendant's permit is not revoked because either (1) he did not move permanently from SC and/or (2) he still has an interest in real property in SC.

Click to expand...

all of that is irrelevant... if the car was not running, how are they going to make a DWI charge stick?

even further, what was the probable cause for them to make the contact in the first place... sitting in a parked car is not illegal...

imported post

mekender wrote:

all of that is irrelevant... if the car was not running, how are they going to make a DWI charge stick?

Click to expand...

I'm no expert in NC DUI law but it's pretty fair to say many or most states and countries will convict for DUI if you are in possession of the car and car keys while drunk at any location, even you'r own driveway.

Old Army adage was: Put the keys under a rock outside the car before you sleep it off

imported post

http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-138.1.html

§ 20‑138.1. Impaired driving. (a) Offense. – A person commits the offense of impaired driving if he drives any vehicle upon any highway, any street, or any public vehicular area within this State:
(1) While under the influence of an impairing substance; or
(2) After having consumed sufficient alcohol that he has, at any relevant time after the driving, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more. The results of a chemical analysis shall be deemed sufficient evidence to prove a person's alcohol concentration; or
(3) With any amount of a Schedule I controlled substance, as listed in G.S. 90‑89, or its metabolites in his blood or urine.
(a1) A person who has submitted to a chemical analysis of a blood sample, pursuant to G.S. 20‑139.1(d), may use the result in rebuttal as evidence that the person did not have, at a relevant time after driving, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(b) Defense Precluded. – The fact that a person charged with violating this section is or has been legally entitled to use alcohol or a drug is not a defense to a charge under this section.
(b1) Defense Allowed. – Nothing in this section shall preclude a person from asserting that a chemical analysis result is inadmissible pursuant to G.S. 20‑139.1(b2).
(c) Pleading. – In any prosecution for impaired driving, the pleading is sufficient if it states the time and place of the alleged offense in the usual form and charges that the defendant drove a vehicle on a highway or public vehicular area while subject to an impairing substance.
(d) Sentencing Hearing and Punishment. – Impaired driving as defined in this section is a misdemeanor. Upon conviction of a defendant of impaired driving, the presiding judge shall hold a sentencing hearing and impose punishment in accordance with G.S. 20‑179.
(e) Exception. – Notwithstanding the definition of "vehicle" pursuant to G.S. 20‑4.01(49), for purposes of this section the word "vehicle" does not include a horse. (1983, c. 435, s. 24; 1989, c. 711, s. 2; 1993, c. 285, s. 1; 2006‑253, s. 9.)

Click to expand...

definition of driver
http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-4.01.html

(7) Driver. – The operator of a vehicle, as defined in subdivision (25). The terms "driver" and "operator" and their cognates are synonymous.

Click to expand...

and "operator"

(25) Operator. – A person in actual physical control of a vehicle which is in motion or which has the engine running. The terms "operator" and "driver" and their cognates are synonymous.

Click to expand...

If the engine was not running or the car was not in motion, he wasnt driving for the purposes of a DWI...

imported post

He refused to blow, automatic 30 days licensee suspension for DWI.

imported post

American Patriot wrote:

He refused to blow, automatic 30 days licensee suspension for DWI.

Click to expand...

first, i looked back... i dont see where he said that anywhere...

secondly... he was not driving the vehicle... he can refuse to blow, walk a line, stare at a pen tip, etc...

you are only obligated to participate in a roadside or chemical sobriety test if you are actually driving a vehicle...