On going Theme

imported post

I have said this in the past and continue to notice a pattern. LEO's often do not know the law or they simply do not care. I have said to my wife (we just got our car broke into while we were out of town) that the Spokane Police Dept. does not investigate property crime. That they are really only interested in writting traffic tickets, and responding to a crisis situation (all the better if there is a gun involved). But to actually protect and serve is all hogwash. I know that the people burglarizing homes and cars have done it in the past, and probably got caught or have their prints from another crime on file.

One would think it would be an easy case. Dust for prints, make a match and arrest the scum bag. However, Spokane Police Dept. chooses not to respond to property crimes.

Back to the on going theme. Most of you who OC have had some negative contact with LEO at some point or another. Ranging from being cuffed and stuffed or just detained and harrassed. None of which sounds like fun to me, sorry, but I am still carrying concealed. I have gone into convenient stores and pumped my gas with my pistol openly on my hip, however that is very minor compared to some others. The message continues to be the same, LEO's do not care if they are violating a persons rights, they see a gun and they "go gett'em". If I were an LEO I wouldn't bother with OC people, because what criminal openly carries a gun *NONE*.

However LEO's rarely have college degrees in law, most with just an AA or military experience. So they really don't have time to understand the laws, they just respond to what they see.

As I have said in the past, and will continue to say, Nothing is going to change with just a few people OC'ing here and there. The internet is a great thing but unless you have an interest in this message, the mass majority of people do not frequent "our" sites. I have had some disagreement on this but there needs to be an effort to make the law more clear. The law is vague, most agree to that. The law can beinterpreted by LEO's either way, depending on their personal views of civilians and guns.

I do not have the resources or the time to fully engage in a cause to change or clarify the law. However, a group such as this could pull together and do just that. Please do not make the argument that the law states this and that the supreme court has ruled this way, LEO's do not have the time or the education to stay current on what the Supreme court does and they interpret "brandishing" as "displaying" so your violating the law by displaying a gun on your hip.

Consider this

If a group were to make an effort to clarify the law or change it, that would create a ton of news coverage, that in turn can be helpful in getting people to get over their phobias and unnecessary fears of seeing a handgun on my hip, holstered and secured properly.

Please remember that the general public (not myself or others on this site) are the ones to convince (that includes LEO's). They all have views and interpretations of what is right and wrong.

Making an effort to change or clarify the law is a good idea and can be done if a group of people want to make the effort. We DO have the right to make law.



Stay Safe and don't act like sheep.

imported post

Whether the police know the laws they are violating or not, they are still bound by them. If they break them in violating my rights, they will be made to pay for it. The only thing people understand nowadays is money. Make them bleed money for their indiscretions, and they will soon learn that they shouldn't harass and arrest legal OCers. I will NOT be bullied into not exercising my rights simply because of some hard-headed LEO who wants to play the "who's a bigger man" game. If you want to CC only, fine, more power to you. I'm not going to sit here and judge someone for how they carry, but I will decide how to carry based on what I feel like doing, not based on the likelihood of some asshole LEO stringing me up for my OC.

imported post

When my car window got broke and my stereo stolen and I knew who did it, punk gang member living across the street. Empty bull ice bottles set down next to my car dry summer day, they refused to dust for prints or knock on the door across the street.

I told the officer you better catch him before I do. He told me "never take the law into your own hands" my reply was" why you afraid you will be out of a job".

I agree they are not interested in justice any more although they are supposedly members of that branch. But our justice system is no longer interested in justice either.

imported post

can I ask who has filed and won a lawsuit?



I have read several stories where people were in the "process" of a suit but rarely are any details given, which makes me question the validity.



It's crazy to continue to do the same thing and expect different results.

changing or redefining the law sounds better then being crazy.



Don't be sheep!

imported post

hawaidvr9 wrote:

can I ask who has filed and won a lawsuit?



I have read several stories where people were in the "process" of a suit but rarely are any details given, which makes me question the validity.



It's crazy to continue to do the same thing and expect different results.

changing or redefining the law sounds better then being crazy.



Don't be sheep!

Click to expand...

Are you just concern trolling the forum? Last I checked, the result of "just a few people OC'ing (sic) here and there" has been reduced harassment, trained police departments, and better encounters. Take, for example, my recent ejection from Bellevue Downtown Park. Now the entire police department knows of the legality, training bulletins are being issued, etc. The second time officers saw us OCing, there were no issues. That's a HUGE change, and it's happening one city at a time.

I'm not in this to make a quick cash settlement and then go away. I'd rather the departments be better educated and my life be left alone. This *is* happening, and it's been quite successful.

imported post

By no means have "most" of us had negative LEO incidents. Those are just the stories that get reported. Good news is boring.

The cops can't begin to handle all the property crime out there. You want to protect yourself? Buy a DVR with at least 4 cams. If you can show the cops video of the BG's in action they WILL go after them because they know they can get a conviction.

imported post

compmanio365 wrote:

SNIP: Make them bleed money for their indiscretions, and they will soon learn that they shouldn't harass and arrest legal OCers.

Click to expand...

Remember making them bleed moneyaffects everyone,after all its tax payer money they bleed. Feels like a catch 22. Cost's money to fight and make change, and costs money if you loose.

imported post

It does piss me off that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" when I break a law. I will be hauled in, run through the system, and made to pay fines and/or lawyer fees. However, whena cop breaks a law out of ignorance, there doesn't seem to be any real recourse.

I'm just going through some crap right now where a cop is lying to support some unethical charges put on me by a prosecutor who had no work to do (and the prosecutor actually failed to read the officer's report before placing these charges on me).

imported post

I still believe that an apology is not enough for some officers though. When we break the law can we apologize. Maybe they can sentence the offending officers to hold an Open carry meet.

I am glad hear in Washington most Departments "have seen the light" but when an agency continues to allow its officers to go outside the scope of law thena lawsuit is in order. The problem is that often times us ordinary folks can't afford even the retainer for the lawyer let alone the expense of a lawsuit.

imported post

Misguided Child wrote:

By no means have "most" of us had negative LEO incidents. Those are just the stories that get reported. Good news is boring.

Click to expand...

I have had more than a dozen very positive LEO "encounters" while open-carrying. I had one very comical (but not necessarily negative) LEO encounter in Pullman while open-carrying. The only negative LEO "encounter" I have had was with a state trooper on a motorcycle in Seattle, WA and I was concealed-carrying at that time.

Good news is indeed boring.

imported post

Also think about how many police that are out there in Washington, the amount of cops that have stopped people for open carry are the minority. I know of many times where cops have seen me open carry and just gone on with their job.

Be sure to remember that it's not how something is written that matters it's how it's Interpreted, the second amendment to me clearly states my individual right to keep and bear arms yet some people think its a group right only for militia's. The high courts here in Washington Interpret the law as meaning we can open carry a holstered pistol and that's all that matters. Know that cops don't get to say what a law means or doesn't mean that's up to a judge.

imported post

FunkTrooper wrote:

SNIP:Know that cops don't get to say what a law means or doesn't mean that's up to a judge.

Click to expand...

Up to the judge part should never have to happen! The law is what is says. Seams that no matter what you write or rewrite someone will think they need to interrupt it differently.

And certainlyits the part the complicates a person life to great means. Let's say the judge clears you by whatever definition, but for someone it may still involve getting the gun back from an unwelling rouge department, clearing you name off whatever system it shows up on so that each time you try to buy a new firearm, or renew a CPL, apply for job or many other reasons "you aren't FLAGGEDOh Hell No"

Not an expert here, but I have known folksthat aftera judge's dismissal they still had the arrest onthe record until theygot it removed.