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Thread: Farmington Hills Tea Party OC

  1. #1
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    OC'd for an hour at the Farmington Hills Tea Party right next to city hall and the police station, along Orchard Lake Rd just south of 11 Mile. I wore a sign from my neck that said, "Reinstate Allodial Title", and had on a red shirt, blue jeans, and a white sign: red, white, and blue. This was my first OC outside of the neighborhood, so I was a little apprehensive to say the least. I used my voice recorder and took a few pictures. I knew going in that there would be a police presence and, sure enough, there was both an officer on foot and one in his vehicle next to the burb impeding traffic in the right-hand lane facing southbound.

    Before I go on, let me say this, and only because I consider enactment and enforcement of traffic policy a gross violation of the purpose of government. I don't know for sure why the patrol car was there...perhaps to keep people out of the street(?), but there were a LOT of mouthed WTFs from passing drivers as they had to funnel into the left lane to get around the cruiser. In addition, the officer's secondary goal appeared to be to type in as many passing license plates as possible. I made a mental note that since the parking was just past him in the public lot behind city hall, he would have had a chance to type in the plates on every automobile that parked there for the event, in effect monitoring the activities of private citizens.

    Ok, so let me continue. I had been thinking quite a bit about the idea of "looking forward" to my first LEO encounter as a way of dealing with the anticipation, so right after I arrived and took a couple of crowd photos (100+ people?), I stopped to talk to the LEO on foot to get it out of the way, assess FHPD's attitude toward open carry, and to demonstrate that I wasn't a threat, terrorist, or general crazy person. As an aside, I don't think she noticed I was carrying while we were speaking, but may have noticed as I walked away. Here's the transcript of the conversation (from recording and, wow, is it time-consuming to transcribe from audio), but be forewarned, I'm not much of a public speaker.


    [Edit: conversation begins at roughly 03:56 minutes into the recording]



    Me: Morning, officer, how are you?

    She: Good. How are you?

    Me: Good. I was just wondering, um, what kind of departmental communications you've had regarding open carry in Michigan.

    She: Oh, for, ah, CCW?

    Me: No, open carry of a firearm, exposed on the hip, just like yourself.

    She: Oh, I don't know what we get.

    Me: Ok. I've actually been trying to talk to the, the mayor's office and city council. Um, and I've got the, sent a bunch of emails and I've got the city attorney, kinda looking into that at this point.

    [Edit: this was a reference to my email contact with the city and correspondence with the city attorney in reference to FH's prohibition of firearm carry in city parks.]

    She: Oh, Steve Meads? er?

    Me: Um, Jeffrey, ah, no Steven Joppich.

    She: Ok.

    Me: Yeah. So, does that sound right?

    She: So some other guy in the office, yeah.

    Me: Joppich. Joppich is the last name, I'm not too clear on the first name.

    [Edit: the correct name of my correspondence is Steven Joppich, Esq.]

    She: I know Texas does it, so.

    Me: Actually Texas doesn't open carry.

    [Edit: It's funny how often Texas comes up as the OC example in people's minds.]

    She: They don't? I thought they did?

    Me: Nope, nope, there's six states in the US that don't; Texas is one of them.

    She: I always thought they did. [laughing]

    Me: Yeah, it's funny, that's like yeah everybody says that, right?. [laughing]

    She: Ha, ha, Texas, yeah.

    Me: [garbled] Nope, there's 44 states that do.

    She: Which ones do?

    Me: Ahm. All of them but, well, ok, so it's probably easier to say which ones don't. Ahm, I know Texas, Illinois, ah South Carolina, New York, um, either Vermont or New Hampshire, I'm not sure which one of those.

    [Edit: I totally butchered this list of anti-OC states, getting only 3 or 6 right. For a refresher, the six consist of the following: Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, South Carolina, Florida, and New York. My apologies to OC'ers in Vermont, New Hampshire, and rural Illinois.]

    She: Hm.

    Me: I can't remember, I know there's another one, but. Anyway, I've got some information if you'd care to look at it, in your free time.

    She: Well, I'm gonna pass right now.

    Me: Pass, ok.

    She: Yeah, so.

    Me: Alright, thanks.

    She: Ok.

    Me: Alright.

    She: Yeah. Bye.
    [Edit: conversation ends at roughly 05:30 minutes into the recording.]


    All in all, it was a very pleasant and cordial conversation. I'm disappointed that I didn't get the officer's name and also that she declined to read the MIOC pamphlet. Also, the FHPD apparently haven't been instructing their officers in OC, so I'll have to send them a full info packet.

    After that, I walked up and down in the crowd a little bit and even stood kind of close to the patrol car for a minute. At one point, the patrol officer exited his vehicle and talked to the other oficer I just spoken with, but I have no actual reason to think MWAG was the subject matter. From the crowd, I did hear a few "hey, look at that"s and made smiling eye contact with a few people. I'm usually smiing, btw. I overheard one lady saying "holster show off", but it didn't come out on the recording.

    Then, I crossed to the median and stood with some folks there who were actively trying to get as many honks as possible. I would have been visible to pretty much the entire crowd at this point. If anyone were in condition yellow, they would have seen me. Don't know how many conditions white folks noticed, but the folks on the median with me did. I even talked to one for a minute, a guy on a Segway, but it was in regard to my sign. At this point, I was one lane away and exactly even with the patrol car's window and clearly visible to the patrol officer for 15 minutes or so, although my weak side was to him most of the time. If he noticed me, I guess my coffee-drinking, sign-wearing persona didn't scream "threat" because he didn't come talk to me.

    For the day, I fielded several questions about my Tea Party sign, but only one individual spoke to me specifically about carrying. This gentleman was a member of the South Oakland Area Republicans (http://www.soarclub.com) and gave me his card. We discussed OC a little, including state preemption and restricted areas. I gave him a pamphlet.

    Overall, I have to say that I wasn't very proactive in getting the message out regarding OC, likely because I was extremely self-conscious and it started getting to me. I intended to head over to the Northville tea party, but by that point, my mojo had run dry so I called it a day. In total, I only handed out 1 pamphlet, made 1 LEO contact, but there were likely several dozen people, if not more, who saw me OCing.

    Add: I didn't see any other OC'ers.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Sounds like a great experience overall. I thought about attending a Tea Party, but have been using this weekend to catch up on stuff around the house.

    I was at the Clawson Fireworks tonight with a friend and his family. It turns out that my "second daughter's" sister's boyfriend is a member of MI Open Carry, but was not OC'ing tonight. He and I were the first MI OC Members we had met "outside the virtual space". I thought about OC'ing tonight, but the Clawson Park has some of the High School Fields there and did not want to chance it without my CPL (only a matter of weeks before it is here!!!).

    Hope everyone had a great 4th celebrating America's 233rd "birthday".
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  3. #3
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    I was at the Clawson Fireworks tonight with a friend and his family.
    I wish I'd have known you were there! I was there myself. Pretty huge event to look for someone though. I had a hell of a time just finding my friends.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    I was at the Clawson Fireworks tonight with a friend and his family.
    I wish I'd have known you were there! I was there myself. Pretty huge event to look for someone though. I had a hell of a time just finding my friends.
    I have been going there for many, many years on the Fourth of July. They always put on a good show. I live about 1 mile away, so I rode my bike there (pedal-power). You and I will have to meet sometime and hit a local gun range or OC at a park...

    When I was leaving, the Clawson Cops were taking to a guy who had just been attacked along with another person (other person was on the ground). From watching the interaction for just a few seconds, I really understood much better that the cops are really not there to protect individuals. Their first question and really only question was "is the BG gone?". I believe that we are just starting to see things yet to come and it will get much worse.

    Here is what I have been posting at the Detroit News Website about the 7 kids who were shot:

    5 out of 5 Bad Guys surveyed say they prefer an unarmed victim to an armed one. Moreover, they prefer to meet their victims in the “Criminal Empowerment Zones” where they can be relatively assured of their own safety. These include the 1000' Gun-Free School Zone.

    The US Supreme Court has upheld the 2nd Amendment to mean an individual, not collective right. In addition, US Supreme Court has upheld that Police Departments have no duty or responsibility to protect individual citizens and only serve the Public Safety interests.

    What this means is that your own personal protection comes down to you. Since some today seem avoid Personal Responsibility at all costs, it is no wonder that they think no one should have guns. Some are just not up to the responsibility of the Freedoms they enjoy.

    More laws will not solve the situation and tougher laws will only help "after the fact". Criminals already know they are breaking the law and do not care for the consequences of law.

    The only ways to stop this is better parenting and arming yourself for purposes of personal protection. I believe it will take a generation or 2 for the former, while the latter is available TODAY. A CPL can be had pretty simply and Michigan is an Open Carry State with specific restrictions not to conceal (most people do not know this).

    These kids did not have a chance, as they could not have carried a firearm for personal protection even if they wanted to (and still remain within the law).

    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    You and I will have to meet sometime and hit a local gun range or OC at a park...
    The only gun range I go to is the Pit. Although I'd go to federal land if there was any anywhere near here.

    Anyway, I'm always up for meeting up. Just let me know when and where, maybe even make an event of it. Or keep it simple and PM me to do something small on the side. Your choice.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Just curious, say you clear the range, to set up your target, you get down there and start setting up, and you hear the sound that makes you crap your pants, luckily you were missed, do you return fire, for the purpose of self protection?


    >.>

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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Just curious, say you clear the range, to set up your target, you get down there and start setting up, and you hear the sound that makes you crap your pants, luckily you were missed, do you return fire, for the purpose of self protection?


    >.>
    This happened to me a few years ago at Williams. RO called cease fire and while I was stapling my target to the backboard, shots were fired. I froze in my tracks and turned my head only to make eye contact with the RO. I could not hear exactly what the RO was saying to the moron, but it didn't sound like very friendly conversation to me. So, to answer your question, I would say not to return fire. It could very well be a situation like mine where a cease fire was not heard by all.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Just curious, say you clear the range, to set up your target, you get down there and start setting up, and you hear the sound that makes you crap your pants, luckily you were missed, do you return fire, for the purpose of self protection?
    No. Get downproneimmediatelyand yell, "CEASE FIRE!" Then assess thesituation.If there is an active shooterintentionally firing at you, then you may return fire in self-defense (if you have your weapon with you).
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Finally submitted my CPL application yesterday to Oakland County. It was pretty quick, about an hour for the whole process. The guy who took my prints claimed turn-around was 4 weeks, but I'll believe that when I see it. I've seen more recent reports of 6 weeks for Oakland County.


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    CoonDog wrote:
    Finally submitted my CPL application yesterday to Oakland County. It was pretty quick, about an hour for the whole process. The guy who took my prints claimed turn-around was 4 weeks, but I'll believe that when I see it. I've seen more recent reports of 6 weeks for Oakland County.
    Try and get stopped for OCing so they send a letter to the gun board. That's what happened to me. I got a letter requesting a meeting with the gun board, we talked about my OCincident and I walked out of there that day with my CPL.:celebrate

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    I don't think Oakland county does gun board meetings for CPL applicants anymore.

    Sheriff Bouchard told me that with how the laws are now, he believes CPL applicants should be treated as customers of the state, with them being the designated salespeople. The lack of gun board attendance requirements might have something to do with that. It's also possible that the county is so damn populated that they couldn't handle requiring gun board meetings.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I think the guy at the records dept said it would come in the mail. But I've read that as well: no gun board for Oak C.


  13. #13
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    I don't think Oakland county does gun board meetings for CPL applicants anymore.

    Sheriff Bouchard told me that with how the laws are now, he believes CPL applicants should be treated as customers of the state, with them being the designated salespeople. The lack of gun board attendance requirements might have something to do with that. It's also possible that the county is so damn populated that they couldn't handle requiring gun board meetings.
    You are correct, no gun board meetings for Oakland county. It took me 45 days from the time of handing in my application to receiving it in the mail.

  14. #14
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Coon Dog: Good to hear you were able to make it!

    I turned mine in 1 week ago and will post here when I get it. I run to the mailbox when I get home like a little kid waiting for a letter from Santa Claus!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Coon Dog: Good to hear you were able to make it!

    I turned mine in 1 week ago and will post here when I get it. I run to the mailbox when I get home like a little kid waiting for a letter from Santa Claus!
    Best to be patient, and enjoy OCing in the mean time. It will be at least several more weeks until it arrives.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    CoonDog wrote:
    Finally submitted my CPL application yesterday to Oakland County. It was pretty quick, about an hour for the whole process. The guy who took my prints claimed turn-around was 4 weeks, but I'll believe that when I see it. I've seen more recent reports of 6 weeks for Oakland County.
    I think I waited about 6 weeks in Oakland County. They SAY 4 weeks... but plan on 6.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I don't think Oakland county does gun board meetings for CPL applicants anymore.

    Sheriff Bouchard told me that with how the laws are now, he believes CPL applicants should be treated as customers of the state, with them being the designated salespeople. The lack of gun board attendance requirements might have something to do with that. It's also possible that the county is so damn populated that they couldn't handle requiring gun board meetings.
    No county necessarily requires gun board meetings for approval of a CPL, but a gun board must be available to hear disputes and to ask questions of applicants, if they deem necessary.

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    CoonDog wrote:
    I think the guy at the records dept said it would come in the mail. But I've read that as well: no gun board for Oak C.
    There is an Oakland County Gun Board (same as any other county). But I wouldn't expect to have to meet with them... your CPL should come in the mail; providing there are no questions or anything (same as any other county).

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Coon Dog: Good to hear you were able to make it!

    I turned mine in 1 week ago and will post here when I get it. I run to the mailbox when I get home like a little kid waiting for a letter from Santa Claus!
    Hahahaha I know the feeling. But you know what? It's going to come on the day that you completely forget about it. I neglected to check my mail for 3 days... and it came on one of those days. Judging by the stack in my mailbox, it looked like it came on the first day that I didn't check it.

    So like a kid on Christmas Eve... just relax, fall asleep, and it will come before you know it. :-)

    Edited to Add: I was particularly antsy about mine, because I had signed it with a restrictive endorsement. A friend of mine who did the same thing (Oakland County) had his CPL originally withheld (they didn't use the exact words "denied", but they DID fail to issue) because of the endorsement. When he filed an appeal with the gun board, he won and got his CPL with the restrictive endorsement. I truly expected to have to go through the same process, but alas, I did not. I honestly believe my friend's gun board decision paved the way for me.

  20. #20
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    CoonDog... do me a favor and post (or PM me) when the next Tea Party comes through Oakland County. I've been wanting to go to one forever, but I haven't been able to work it into my schedule.

    Oh... and for the record, I open carried in Gibralter during Gibralter Days on the 4th of July. I didn't plan on going there... but I was sort of in the area and the girl I was with wanted to hook up with some of her friends while were there. We were already on foot so we just walked down to the festival. Nothing to report... no gawkers, comments, or conversations. Don't know if any of the police saw it or not, but they were around.

    In hindsight, I sort of wish I'd left my pistol stored in the vehicle before we left on foot because I had to remain stone cold sober the whole night. But then again, I felt better having it while walking... I suppose I'm safer sober and armed than I am drunk and unarmed.

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    Veritas, when I stepped up to the line to sign, I choked and didn't write "Without Prejudice". It's sad, but I don't even know enough about preserving my rights to have the confidence to do so. But I'm growing every day and slowly releasing the chains.


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    Veritas wrote:
    CoonDog... do me a favor and post (or PM me) when the next Tea Party comes through Oakland County. I've been wanting to go to one forever, but I haven't been able to work it into my schedule.
    Veritas, you've got a deal.

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    CoonDog wrote:
    Veritas, you've got a deal.
    Thanks man.

    And without spoiling all my fun, what are these events like? Good turnouts? Good issues being waged? Are people really trying to move the country in the right direction?

    Or is it just a bunch of hippies getting together because all their friends are doing it?

    Not that I mind hippies. I just have a problem with anyone who pushes agenda's that are too far left, as well as too far right... especially if it's for selfish reasons, or even more especially if it's just the "popular" thing to do within their social circle.

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    The crowd in FH was fairly small as these go, probably 100 people or so. I read the one in Northville at the Community Park at Beck/5 Mile had over a thousand with a stage for multiple speakers, including Mike Cox, and also for live music to add fill for the duration.

    As far as political philosophy, my sense was that the FH event leaned toward the small government conservative. Among the many anti-tax signs, there were many anti-socialism messages out there. It's a good reminder that there are a LOT of people pissed off at Obama and ObamaCare. The FH event was fairly tame, people holding signs and waving to passing cars. The organizer gave a short talk and then a few of the local politicians said a few words. I was having a conversation on the side at that point and didn't pay them any attention.

    For the event populous, I think I think it's a mixture of those who actually believe in reducing the size of the fed.gov and those who are there to just toot their own horns and patting themselves on the back. I'm afraid it's likely that most of these folks will still vote for the same two-headed beast in the next national election, so I don't know wtf they think they're going to accomplish. At least the storm is slowly brewing.

    My optimistic impression is that while these events do tend to reinforce ones own sense of purpose, the greater effect may be to draw more of the closet/fence-post sitters out to support some actual redress of grievances in the future. In addition, the sheer number of these things nationwide on the 4th ought to send a message to our state capitals and US reps that the people are starting to get seriously riled up.

    I'm glad I went. I was able to break my OC cherry in nearly the most public way possible, got my LEO encounter out of the way, and had a few interesting conversations to boot.

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