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Thread: Campus carry

  1. #1
    inNV
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    Has anyone ever asked to carry on a college campus, (UNLV, UNR, CSN, etc.) According to the law, (concealed carry) it says that you can carry concealed with the permission of whoever was in charge of the school, I would assume the president. Has anyone ever asked for permission, and have been given it..or not?

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    Yes. I know of several that have asked for permission via formal letter. And got denied every time.

    Here are a couple of examples of Dr Milton Glick's denial letters:






    Dr Milton Glick appears to fit the profile of the average liberal left, anti-guneducator. He can be reached at:

    Dr Milton Glick

    President, University of Nevada, Reno

    University of Nevada, Reno/001

    Reno NV

    89557-0061

  3. #3
    inNV
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    Oh wow, you have letters, lol. That sucks about UNR, I will be trying at UNLV and see what happens. So I guess the course of action is to write a letter, and wait for the response? I am also curious as to how the permission for carrying was asked..I have a couple tricks up my sleeve..I'll let you all know how it turns out..unless someone can verify for UNLV or not..

    Too bad Kenny Guinn was not still president...I am not sure of his gun stance, but at least he wasn't a leftist..

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    Tricks sound good. Once you know the results, good or bad, fill us in!

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    I am torn on this one:

    - The students get pretty crazy at UNLV, do you want them drunk with guns?
    - That being said, if I sent my daughter there, I'd want her to have protection, a CCW and her pistol in her purse...

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    Pace wrote:
    I am torn on this one:

    - The students get pretty crazy at UNLV, do you want them drunk with guns?
    - That being said, if I sent my daughter there, I'd want her to have protection, a CCW and her pistol in her purse...
    Pace,

    This is one area where you and I do not see eye to eye. A right is a right. This is the same logic many anti-gunners use....."Do you want <group of people> running around with a gun?"

    While you may find it to be a reasonable restriction, there are many, myself included, who disagree with that logic. If some restrictions are OK, who in government do we entrust with deciding which restrictions are OK and which are not?

    Now, do I want students drunk and running around with guns? Of course not. Good thing it's already a crime for ANYONE (not just students) to be drunk (0.10 BAC or greater) and in possession of a gun (NRS 202.257).

    Tim

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    I don't disagree that a right is a right. I am saying that I can understand both viewpoints seriously in a case like this.

    Rights extend to the privacy of you home, and to the public streets in general.

    I would tend to agree with you that not being able to protect yourself in school is an issue.

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    Pace wrote:
    I don't disagree that a right is a right. I am saying that I can understand both viewpoints seriously in a case like this.

    Rights extend to the privacy of you home, and to the public streets in general.

    I would tend to agree with you that not being able to protect yourself in school is an issue.
    Yes, but in my mind, the bigger issue is who gets to decide what restrictions are OK? I don't go onto college campuses, so it doesn't impact me one way or the other.

    Actually, strike that, I'm attending a free "How to sue someone in Small Claims court" class at Boyd School of Law (on UNLV campus) on Tuesday.

    So it does impact me, and I'm not a student, and I won't be drunk, and since I go everywhere armed, I'm going to have to go out of my way to disarm myself and leave the weapon unsafely out of my possession during the class.

    Since politicians have already restricted my right to be armed on campus, which IMO creates a danger to myself (being unarmed) and the general public (in my holster is the only safe place for my gun), why in the world would I trust them or any other public official to further restrictions?

    Tim


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    That's a good question that the courts have addressed, and haven't quite figured out. How far does your personal rights extend?

    The question of a closed campus and rules have been questioned many, many times. Can an institution of higher education, or a school make rules that restrict things that are not restricted in the general public? Can they restrict free speech, etc?

    It's a complex question. How about courts, where there must be a high level of security because of prisoner transport etc? Jails? etc?

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    Pace wrote:
    That's a good question that the courts have addressed, and haven't quite figured out. How far does your personal rights extend?

    The question of a closed campus and rules have been questioned many, many times. Can an institution of higher education, or a school make rules that restrict things that are not restricted in the general public? Can they restrict free speech, etc?

    It's a complex question. How about courts, where there must be a high level of security because of prisoner transport etc? Jails? etc?
    That is specifically covered under statute, and must be posted, and have metal detectors. Cite to follow later this afternoon, unless someone else beats me to it. Campus locations are under a different standard.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    We are not talking about the law, we are talking about theory and ideology.

    I think the law should be overturned, and frankly that we should have less restrictive open carry in general.

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    Anyone else get the feeling this Pace person is not really on our side? I grow tired of the posts by Pace who thinks he knows our state and laws so well but has been wrong many times over. To the ignore list Pace goes for me.

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    Excuse me? I don't want to defend myself, but you obviously dont read my posts:

    - I believe in 100% defense of self with a firearm. I will not patronize a store that has a sign that says no guns, at all.

    - I *open carry* everywhere. EVERYWHERE (that is legal)
    - That I believe the right to carry a firearm is important as it defends all other rights.
    - I donated a large sum of money to this site, and plan to donate more because I 100% believe in this right.
    - I am an NRA member.
    - I am a Libertarian but grew up a Democrat.
    - I have gotten along with Tim, the ACLU of Nevada to look at his case, and have met with them about gun control issues.
    - I can go on...

    Let me make this clear, I believe in the right of every citizen to carry a firearm for his protection. Period.

    I believe in recending the registration scheme in Clark County for Firearms.
    I beleive that you should be able to conceal carry without CCW
    I believe that the government should not restrict carrying in public under any condition
    I believe police officers have no right to stop you for carryign a gun, and ask you questions without cause.

    And, I'll add that I am wrong a LOT and appreciate people correcting me and educating me.

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    Pace wrote:
    I am torn on this one:

    - The students get pretty crazy at UNLV, do you want them drunk with guns?
    - That being said, if I sent my daughter there, I'd want her to have protection, a CCW and her pistol in her purse...
    I agree with Tim.

    There is a thing called "personal responsibility."

    And in Nevada, one must be at least 21 years old in order to obtain a CCW permit.

    I, for one, believe they can handle the responsibility. To insinuate otherwise is nonsense. Lets punish wrongdoers, NOT lawful activity.

    Examine the law in Utah. CCW on campus is lawful. Any problems there? No, I've never heard of any.

    And, of course, take a look at the tragic shootings we've had on campus. At Virginia Tech, for example, a lone CCW permit holder could have saved many, many lives.

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    I agree on that. As I said, I would never let my daughter attend a college without the ability to carry. My fiance open carries most of the time and with an other child on the way, its a requirement for my family.

    Remember, most people are 18 when they start college, why should they not be able to get a CCW? (I'm against permits in general)

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    Pace wrote:
    I am torn on this one:

    - The students get pretty crazy at UNLV, do you want them drunk with guns?
    - That being said, if I sent my daughter there, I'd want her to have protection, a CCW and her pistol in her purse...
    I am a student at UNR. I do not drink. Stereotype logic is flawed. I do not appreciate being punished for the perceived problems of others by gun bans.

    Most of the drinking that goes on goes on off campus where guns are allowed. Drinking is prohibited at UNR, and being drunk while carrying is also prohibited by law. There is also nothing to stop people currently from illegally carrying on campus. There aren't even any metal detectors. And we're trying to create laws that prohibit possession of weapons by people who are already demonstrating their lack of respect for the law by breaking other laws. Why isn't the law banning carry while drunk and laws against the misuse of firearms sufficient to deter them?

    University students that can carry can carry off campus. They don't suddenly become more dangerous when they go on campus.

    In Nevada you can't even have a gun in your car on campuus So one has to park off campus if they want to have their gun before or after classes, and walk a ways to get to and from the University disarmed, often at night. Students are also prohibited from carrying other weapons on campus. Campus officials recommend students carry a whistle to protect them from criminals.

    Unlike K-12 schools, where the school basically takes some legal responsibility safety of the students who are legally children, the university system takes no responsibility for the students, which are legally adults.

    Also, while I am of typical college age, many older people also attend college. I know quite a few people who have taken classes in the past few years who are in their forties or fifties. And I occasionally see people who look old enough to have retired decades ago. The gun ban also bans guns for the faculty. A lot of people are employed in the Nevada System of Higher Education.

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    Felid said it very well.



  18. #18
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    Yes, its a very, very valid argument.

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    Thanks.

    Also, since a public university is a public location paid for by tax dollars they shouldn't have unlimited power to create their own rules like a private institution.

    (This post was edited after the below reply [which I didn't yet see] removing content discussing how the private sector could run schools and universities. I'd put back what I said but I can't remember exactly what I said.)

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    You are correct in theory, and I would tend to agree to you that it should be that way.

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    Pace wrote:
    I am torn on this one:

    - The students get pretty crazy at UNLV, do you want them drunk with guns?
    - That being said, if I sent my daughter there, I'd want her to have protection, a CCW and her pistol in her purse...
    I continue having problems with the folks that bring up the "Crazed Drunks" theory and idealology, WhenI am in Phoenix, AZ andI take my family to dinner at Outback Steakhouse, I am breaking the law ifI OC or CC, Drinking or not. However here in NevadaI am perfectly Legalat theOutback Steakhouse, andjudging from the lack of "Crazed Drunks" reports, I think Nevada got it right.

  22. #22
    inNV
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    Just to be clear, I am refering to the law as it stands, in which there is no across the board ban of friearms on campus by the state, but they do allow the schools themselves to make the decsion. Unfortunatley none of them do make the correct decision. The letter will be asking for myself, not to allow CC of everyone on campus (which I would love, btw). I am in my 30's, hardly drink (and when I do go to the bar, club or lounge, you can bet I am carrying, and never drink more than 1 or 2 drinks), and sure as heck won't be at any toga parties..or maybe I will..;-)



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    Good luck inNV.

    One problem with laws requiring written permission is that a lot of people might also be worried that if they did give written permission it could open them up to liability if something happened. In addition to anti-gun mentalities, that is probably one of the major reasons why many places do not issue written permissions even when the law allows them to.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Good luck inNV.

    One problem with laws requiring written permission is that a lot of people might also be worried that if they did give written permission it could open them up to liability if something happened. In addition to anti-gun mentalities, that is probably one of the major reasons why many places do not issue written permissions even when the law allows them to.
    The reverse could also theoretically be true.

    What about writing something similar to the following in your letter:

    "If you deny my request to carry my firearm, I will hold you and the University liable for any crimes against me. As you know, criminals already break the law when they victimize innocent civilians. Only law abiding citizens will leave their firearms off-campus, while criminals, already breaking other laws, will ignore the restriction against weapons on campus. As such, if you deny my request, it is my belief that criminals are the only ones you allow to be armed on campus and if that results in a crime against me, I will sue you."

    Or something like that.

    Tim

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    Wish it was valid, its been held not valid in cases against police officials and government for not protecting people. I dont have the citations but I'm sure its google-able. I remember it from basic criminal law.

    Frankly, I think it's a great theory based on the idea that we pay the government and the police to protect and serve the public. If there are any crimes on school property, de facto it means they are not doing their job.

    Can you imagine if a car company sold a car that "sometimes worked" or you bought a Television that turned on once in an while, and the company told you "uh, we do our best?"

    I think the letter might serve a good purpose just to make a point...

    Personally, I like quoting car accident numbers and asking people to ban cars.

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