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Divided carry camps?

marshaul

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smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
JeepSeller wrote:
There really is no logical intelligent argument otherwise in this case.
Oh, well, since you declare it so, it must be QED, right?

No, but because you say it is not, then it isn't? What makes your opinon any more valid than anyone else's. What is your training, education, background, life experience? From what base of knowledge do you speak?

I didn't make an argument or state an opinion.

FWIW, I agree about being good ambassadors. I disagree with the implication that standing up for your rights can ever equate to "bad ambassadorship".
 

nolacopusmc

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
JeepSeller wrote:
There really is no logical intelligent argument otherwise in this case.
Oh, well, since you declare it so, it must be QED, right?

No, but because you say it is not, then it isn't? What makes your opinon any more valid than anyone else's. What is your training, education, background, life experience? From what base of knowledge do you speak?

I didn't make an argument or state an opinion.

FWIW, I agree about being good ambassadors. I disagree with the implication that standing up for your rights can ever equate to "bad ambassadorship".


MODS. PLEASE DO NOT DELETE........



So are you saying the ends justifies the means?
 

nolacopusmc

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marshaul wrote:
If the means consist of "standing up for your rights", then certainly.

So it is OK to beat people, lie, steal, whatever you want to do, trample others rights, as long as you are standing up for yours?

Come on, even you cannot be that naive...or deliberately ignorant?
 

marshaul

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smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
If the means consist of "standing up for your rights", then certainly.

So it is OK to beat people, lie, steal, whatever you want to do, trample others rights, as long as you are standing up for yours?

Come on, even you cannot be that naive...or deliberately ignorant?
Straw man, red herring, ad hominem. Any more for me?
 

smoking357

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
JeepSeller wrote:
There really is no logical intelligent argument otherwise in this case.
Oh, well, since you declare it so, it must be QED, right?

No, but because you say it is not, then it isn't? What makes your opinon any more valid than anyone else's. What is your training, education, background, life experience? From what base of knowledge do you speak?

I didn't make an argument or state an opinion.

FWIW, I agree about being good ambassadors. I disagree with the implication that standing up for your rights can ever equate to "bad ambassadorship".
This troll is trying to divide and conquer by positing a new category of OC: "Really OC'ing."

OC is OC. Enough. Trying to cleave OC is nonsense. This troll is trying to manufacture a debate in order to allow him to stay around and to turn OC'ers against one another, all in the furtherance of somehow trying to prove Mark is at fault for OC'ing.

Banned once is enough. We shouldn't have to endure this.
 

Oscarr

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I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)
 

smoking357

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
If the means consist of "standing up for your rights", then certainly.

So it is OK to beat people, lie, steal, whatever you want to do, trample others rights, as long as you are standing up for yours?

Come on, even you cannot be that naive...or deliberately ignorant?
Straw man, red herring, ad hominem. Any more for me?
ad bannitatum works for me.
 

nolacopusmc

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Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
 

marshaul

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smokingmem wrote:
Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
OK, let's keep the eye on the ball. Your whole purpose here is to challenge "MEM". Hence your user name.

So, rather than continuing your straw man argument, perhaps you can show whose rights were violated by Mark's OCing, or lawsuit?
 

BulletProof

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It seems to me the argument here is still the same one... some feel Open Carry is a privilege and others that it is a born right.

If we look at the 2nd amendment to the bill of RIGHTS, and pull our argument from there, then i believe it is a right born onto an american or earned by someone who becomes a legal citizen.

Just as no person may infringe upon your right to worship as u wish, should that not also hold true for other RIGHTS? As you are free in the United statesas a RIGHT toVote as you see fit, should this not also apply to the RIGHT to bear arms?

As the facts lay, and if our nation is based and upheld by a document with clear and simple statement of the RIGHTS of all citizens which SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, are we not in effect doing an injustice by saying that it is ok to OC but only in a manner that One or more of us chose is proper? would that not fall under the bounds of INFRINGEMENT?

You or i may disagree with the manner in which MEM acts while observing his RIGHTS as a US Citizen, just as he may dislike the fact the way in which a Muslim Preaches, or the way that a Democrat votes, but would he not be wrong in trying to argue that because the Democrat voted not in his favor the Democrat was somehow UnAmerican? As we come full circle, and as OC is a RIGHT acording to the Bill of rights, The word that seems to be the problem for all here is simple... INFRINGEMENT.

How can we argue about an issue listed in the bill of rights, without infringing upon those exact rights? Perhaps that is why that word was used oh so many years ago.. simply to end any argument on the subject and allow the interpretation to be held by any man. As the 2nd amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms, there are also other laws that make sure that while observing this right, others are protected. If while observing this Right, nobody is harmed , does that not end the reason or theneed for further infringement?

Perhaps we have uncovered another even bigger issue among the people, perhaps it is the ability for people to mind their own business. Certainly we all hope that bad things dont happen to good people, however, people seem to keep using that one reason to justify why they feel that infringing upon anothers right is justified.. "so that they dont do something wrong that hurts someone else" How can a person use the possibility of an action as grounds for Infringement? How can this be justified? Sure, someone will take the 2nd amendment and misuse it and innocent people will be hurt, but isnt that why we have those LAWS that PUNISH? This takes us into another world, the world of you, or anyone, having the right, to judge a man and infringe upon him, before even god himself has had a chance to judge him.

If in fact a man, while observing his given and uninfringeable right, is infrindged upon by you based upon the fact that he or she MAY commit a crime, have we not overstepped not only the bounds of man, but entered into gods own domain? Does not even GOD choose to judge a man only AFTER he has done wrong unto another?

To simplify this rant, the second amendment is a RIGHT to keep and bears arms, and anyone , via argument or action who Infringes upon that right, in any manner, has in fact and shown here, named himself the judge above God almighty himself.

So which of you wants to keep arguing?
 

nolacopusmc

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
OK, let's keep the eye on the ball. Your whole purpose here is to challenge "MEM". Hence your user name.

So, rather than continuing your straw man argument, perhaps you can show whose rights were violated by Mark's OCing, or lawsuit?

i guess you have the same mind reading ability as your master and his jester.
 

smoking357

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
OK, let's keep the eye on the ball. Your whole purpose here is to challenge "MEM". Hence your user name.
And me.
 

Oscarr

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BulletProof wrote:
How can a person use the possibility of an action as grounds for Infringement? How can this be justified?
That therein lies the problem, a good majority of laws are based on those very grounds. I agree, it's B.S.

I'm for reactive punishment -- don't ban all the law abiding citizens from doing something, punish people that abuse that right. If someone gets drunk and shoots someone while he was carrying. Then hang that guy in public -- make people think twice about abusing the right, but don't punish all the other responsible people.

Same goes with banning guns in school zones, how can some magical invisible line turn me from a law abiding citizen to a criminal just by taking one step over it. I'm pretty sure everywhere there has been a school shooting, it was illegal for that person to have a gun there, yet they still managed to walk right in and kill people. Now, if those law abiding teachers/students had been able to carry, they could have potentially stopped the psychos intent on mindless murder with far far less loss of life.

So which of you wants to keep arguing?
We can still discuss this without arguing. (theoretically!) ;)
 

marshaul

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smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
OK, let's keep the eye on the ball. Your whole purpose here is to challenge "MEM". Hence your user name.

So, rather than continuing your straw man argument, perhaps you can show whose rights were violated by Mark's OCing, or lawsuit?

i guess you have the same mind reading ability as your master and his jester.
You fail to see this, but your calling him my "master" demonstrates what I said to be true.

Notice you didn't respond to my request to show whose rights were violated as suggested by your fallacious posting. So much for "engaging in intellectual argument".
 

nolacopusmc

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marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
marshaul wrote:
smokingmem wrote:
Oscarr wrote:
I'd say it's OK to beat people that are trying to trample your rights, heck yes. Come on, I'm sure at one time or another we've ALL felt some of them politicians could use a good beating. ;)

LOL. i mean in reality. Is it Ok to sacrifice someone else' rights to further or secure your own? Isn't that what our BOR and COnstitution was based on, that we should be free to do what we want as long as it does not interfere with someone else's freedom to do what they want? (loosely)
OK, let's keep the eye on the ball. Your whole purpose here is to challenge "MEM". Hence your user name.

So, rather than continuing your straw man argument, perhaps you can show whose rights were violated by Mark's OCing, or lawsuit?

i guess you have the same mind reading ability as your master and his jester.
You fail to see this, but your calling him my "master" demonstrates what I said to be true.

Notice you didn't respond to my request to show whose rights were violated as suggested by your fallacious posting. So much for "engaging in intellectual argument".

Sorry, I am not smart enough to see that. yet you still continue to engage me in this banter, DO you dream about me when you go to bed at night?
 

prodefense

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Step back and take a deep breath for a second. Someone just wrote about a "divide and conquer" scheme among OC'ers......good grief ! Reminder- in my OP I mentioned that we shouldn't be fighting, after all we are all in the same 2A boat together. Personally I don't think any "scheme" to fracture OC'ers existed here, I started the post on the same day I joined (today), I don't know anyone here anyway. In fact I promoted the idea that we curtail fighting between OC and CC.

What are we going to do, fight among ourselves while our 2A rights could erode away? How smart is that? I belong to another group, totally not involved in firearms in any manner, all they do is fight and they are all in the same place they were 10 years ago, they'vewasted their efforts fighting among themselves and throwing insults at each other. They've lost ground.

There are really some good posts here, if you are too stuck in one camp and can't fairly absorb what the other camp is saying, then we're just running in circles and only accomplishing name-calling, insults, further division, etc.

OC and CC is about individual choice and responsibility, I like both.
 

nolacopusmc

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prodefense wrote:
Step back and take a deep breath for a second. Someone just wrote about a "divide and conquer" scheme among OC'ers......good grief ! Reminder- in my OP I mentioned that we shouldn't be fighting, after all we are all in the same 2A boat together. Personally I don't think any "scheme" to fracture OC'ers existed here, I started the post on the same day I joined (today), I don't know anyone here anyway. In fact I promoted the idea that we curtail fighting between OC and CC.

What are we going to do, fight among ourselves while our 2A rights could erode away? How smart is that? I belong to another group, totally not involved in firearms in any manner, all they do is fight and they are all in the same place they were 10 years ago, they'vewasted their efforts fighting among themselves and throwing insults at each other. They've lost ground.

There are really some good posts here, if you are too stuck in one camp and can't fairly absorb what the other camp is saying, then we're just running in circles and only accomplishing name-calling, insults, further division, etc.

OC and CC is about individual choice and responsibility, I like both.

My stance exactly, but others choose to make things up and paint me in a corner.
 
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