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Video Vigilante Brian Bates

marshaul

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Aaron1124 wrote:
He does present himself with authority.. I'm surprised so many people start apologizing to him as if he was an officer of the law, rather than mouth off to him.
That's something to keep in mind for those of us who carry. In the event you are forced to draw, some vocal authority could potentially make the difference between you having to justify your actions and your walking away with all your hard-to-find ammo unspent. :)
 

Woodchuck

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AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
Woodchuck wrote:
I absolutely agree that we must have some laws, complete anarchy is complete chaos.

2 consenting adults having sex is a far cry from raping and slitting the throat of a helpless victim.

If there's no victim should it be a crime?

Who says there no victim?  Maybe you're just too short and narrow sighted to see the victims.

 

I lol'd at the videos.  Good for him.
Ridiculous. There cannot be a victim without an act of aggression. Who is the victim? The state, deprived of sales tax? Back up your assertion.
 

Can I move to fantasy land with you?  Life must be so much easier with your head in the sand.

As someone else mentioned, the prostitutes themselves are often victims.  Much like drugs, the trade leads to unsavory characters being attracted to the area, which results in the local community as a whole being a victim.  Yes, there's the tax evasion issue.  Spread of STD's, consumer protection, it's an unregulated industry.  Lost productivity because these girls aren't doing something that benefits society.  Point out to me the last time prostitution lead to anything good.

Aggression is only one aspect of victimization.  Broaden your horizons.  You're missing the forest.

There are thousands of happy 2 sided transactions in prostitution every day. Both sides benefit. I'm not saying I agree with it, just pointing out the obvious.

I do believe you may be so open minded your brain may have fallen out.

The're just sleeping in the bed they made. They chose the lifestyle they live. Don't call them a victim. Now if their pimp slaps them around then the're a victim but of a different crime.

You seem to want to live in a world of no personal responsibility and no accountability.

You and your messiah Hussein Obama can just move on over to Europe and enjoy yourselves.
 

N00blet45

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It's legal to sleep around, so long as you don't make any money from it.

It's legal to spend money on getting laid, so long as it is your girlfriend/spouse.
 

marshaul

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By the way, the "loss of value" argument is fallacious.

An economy is not a zero-sum game. Value is an arbitrary human construct. Value is created any time parties engage in a transaction in which both parties believe they benefit. An economy is simply the sum total of all possessed value, and any exchanges thereof. Therefore, an economy grows as a function of the net sum of all value created by individual transactions which are of mutual perceived benefit to the participants. An economy is more than the amount of currency in play. (This, by the way, is the proper argument for currency inflation -- to match the growth of the economy. Not to devalue the existing currency and "redistribute" wealth, as some here have argued.)

Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician. There's really no concrete difference between the value of something intangible like a live musical performance, and prostitution. The only difference is the moral value that some of us assign.

Yet nobody argues live music acts victimize society because of "loss of productivity".

Both the prostitute and the musician, however, contribute to the happiness of the customer. And, the money they earn is redistributed into the economy through other mutually beneficial transactions.

AWDstylez's zero-sum "loss of productivity" model relies on false assumptions about the nature of value. But then, what else to expect from a Keynesian?
 

R a Z o R

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marshaul wrote:
By the way, the "loss of value" argument is fallacious.



Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician.

Like herpes from a $ 10. Ho ?

Who fallacioused ?

 

marshaul

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R a Z o R wrote:
marshaul wrote:
By the way, the "loss of value" argument is fallacious.



Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician.

Like herpes from a $ 10. Ho ?

 Who fallacioused ?

 
No, that's more akin to food poisoning from eating fast food. :p
 

NightOwl

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AWDstylez wrote:
Can I move to fantasy land with you? Life must be so much easier with your head in the sand.

As someone else mentioned, the prostitutes themselves are often victims. Much like drugs, the trade leads to unsavory characters being attracted to the area, which results inthe local community as a whole being a victim. Yes, there's the tax evasion issue. Spread of STD's, consumer protection, it's an unregulated industry. Lost productivity because these girls aren't doing something that benefits society. Point out to me the last time prostitution lead to anything good.

Aggression is only one aspect ofvictimization. Broaden your horizons. You're missing the forest.

Despite that many men feel benefited (and women too, let's not forget there is such a thing as a male prostitute) and they're part of society? As to the loss of productivity, the mother of a friend of mine wasa prostitute for a handful of years, I'll call her Jane. Jane had a rough divorce, two kids, and was ended up being homeless due tothat andother circumstances. She used those good looks to her advantage, and turned to prostitution as a way to make a good income. With that income, she was able to get housing, feed and clothe her kids, and put herself through college. After graduation, she was hired by the Sheriff's Department and developed a career in a correctional facility as a guard. Jane eventually remarried, owns a house, helped at least one of her kids through college, and is doing quite well.


I'd say that was something good. Don't you agree?

R a Z o R wrote:
We had a similar discussion during leadership training in the service and I raised questions that ended the debate .

Any cute : daughters , wives , moms , sisters and other female relatives ?

How about girlfriends ?



I'll take the bait. Yes. Would I care if they were a prostitute? To a degree, and mostly due to the legality of it. If they were acting in a safe, responsible manner, and enjoying their work, I wouldn't be upset. Why should I be? Oh no, they're...*whisper* having sex...you know, like damn near every adult in the entire country does. The brothels in Nevada are a good example, a safe environment and good money in it if you have what it takes.

Why was that a conversation stopper? Everyone shrugged and...then what?
 

AWDstylez

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NightOwl wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
Can I move to fantasy land with you? Life must be so much easier with your head in the sand.

As someone else mentioned, the prostitutes themselves are often victims. Much like drugs, the trade leads to unsavory characters being attracted to the area, which results inthe local community as a whole being a victim. Yes, there's the tax evasion issue. Spread of STD's, consumer protection, it's an unregulated industry. Lost productivity because these girls aren't doing something that benefits society. Point out to me the last time prostitution lead to anything good.

Aggression is only one aspect ofvictimization. Broaden your horizons. You're missing the forest.

Despite that many men feel benefited (and women too, let's not forget there is such a thing as a male prostitute) and they're part of society? As to the loss of productivity, the mother of a friend of mine wasa prostitute for a handful of years, I'll call her Jane. Jane had a rough divorce, two kids, and was ended up being homeless due tothat andother circumstances. She used those good looks to her advantage, and turned to prostitution as a way to make a good income. With that income, she was able to get housing, feed and clothe her kids, and put herself through college. After graduation, she was hired by the Sheriff's Department and developed a career in a correctional facility as a guard. Jane eventually remarried, owns a house, helped at least one of her kids through college, and is doing quite well.


So what happens when every ok looking woman in America realizes they can make significantly more than they already are simply by whoring themselves out? Have sex all the time AND make great money? Unpossible! Sign me up.

All of a sudden we're losing a large part of the workforce to a "job" that accomplishes nothing for the economy other than a redistribution of money.
 

AWDstylez

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marshaul wrote:
Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician. There's really no concrete difference between the value of something intangible like a live musical performance, and prostitution. The only difference is the moral value that some of us assign.

Yet nobody argues live music acts victimize society because of "loss of productivity".


Art generates income for its respective places of display. The artists are paid a sum that is worth more than the capital invested in the art piece, and the people paying them receive greater benefit than is being paid out. It fits into the capitalistic cycle of upward transfer of wealth (nowadays called creation of wealth), thus it is considered productive.

Prostitution only moves money from one party to another. It does not create wealth and is therefore not productive for the economy. No capital is invested and no wealth is created, it is only moved. It's economic masturbation (no pun intended).
 

R a Z o R

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I'll take the bait. Yes. Would I care if they were a prostitute? To a degree, and mostly due to the legality of it. If they were acting in a safe, responsible manner, and enjoying their work, I wouldn't be upset. Why should I be?

Would you worry about your wife , sister , mother , daughter , or yourself trading any type of body fluid ? To what degree ? There is always some body fluids and cell exchange of some kind . SYPHILLIS , CHLAMYDIA , HIV , HERPES , . . .

How much does Jane charge now$ Before you know it Christmas will be here $

Is sterile technique with Saran Wrap extra ?
 

Woodchuck

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AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician. There's really no concrete difference between the value of something intangible like a live musical performance, and prostitution. The only difference is the moral value that some of us assign.

Yet nobody argues live music acts victimize society because of "loss of productivity".
 

SNIP

Prostitution only moves money from one party to another.  It does not create wealth and is therefore not productive for the economy.  No capital is invested and no wealth is created, it is only moved.  It's economic masturbation (no pun intended).
One could argue that everything in the economy just moves $ around. Just because no capital is invested means no wealth is created?? wow

So if I have a little business of say.....welding, and have equipment given to me(I invest nothing but time), I cannot build any wealth, just move $??
 

R a Z o R

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AWDstylez wrote:




So what happens when every ok looking woman in America realizes they can make significantly more than they already are simply by whoring themselves out? Have sex all the time AND make great money? Unpossible! Sign me up.

Supply and demand

Get in line the going prime rate is $ 10 - 20 average per hour , bare back and no Saran Wrap . Tips are rare .
 

AWDstylez

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Woodchuck wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician. There's really no concrete difference between the value of something intangible like a live musical performance, and prostitution. The only difference is the moral value that some of us assign.

Yet nobody argues live music acts victimize society because of "loss of productivity".


SNIP

Prostitution only moves money from one party to another. It does not create wealth and is therefore not productive for the economy. No capital is invested and no wealth is created, it is only moved. It's economic masturbation (no pun intended).
One could argue that everything in the economy just moves $ around. Just because no capital is invested means no wealth is created?? wow

So if I have a little business of say.....welding, and have equipment given to me(I invest nothing but time), I cannot build any wealth, just move $??


Time is capital, labor is capital, that's your investment. You're getting more than you're giving, wealth is transferred up. You'll eventually have to go out and buy supplies and your suppliers are getting more than they're giving you, wealth is transferred up. You then use the supplies,add your own capital, and sell your product/service for more than you have into it, wealth is transferred from the consumer, to you, to the supplier, andcontinuesup thechain tocreate what we call capitalism.

When someone prostitutes themself, they expend time and labor. They receive a wage that is worth more to them than the capital expended... then the chain stops. This benefits no one but the prostitute and the guy nailing her. She could be off doing something more productive for the economy/society.



Is that scale to small for you? Just expand it from one woman to lots of women and you'll start to see the significances of the lost productivity.
 

AWDstylez

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marshaul wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
By the way, the "loss of value" argument is fallacious.

An economy is not a zero-sum game.


You've lost me already.
That's the whole point.



Explain how it's not a zero sum game, because you've got most, if not all, of the world against you on that one. Nature itself is zero-sum. Economies are no different.
 

marshaul

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AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Prostitution has as much "inherent" value (i.e. utility) as fine art. However, since value is an arbitrary construct, a prostitute contributes as much to the economy, and thus society, as an artist or musician. There's really no concrete difference between the value of something intangible like a live musical performance, and prostitution. The only difference is the moral value that some of us assign.

Yet nobody argues live music acts victimize society because of "loss of productivity".
 

Art generates income for its respective places of display.  The artists are paid a sum that is worth more than the capital invested in the art piece, and the people paying them receive greater benefit than is being paid out.  It fits into the capitalistic cycle of upward transfer of wealth (nowadays called creation of wealth), thus it is considered productive.

Prostitution only moves money from one party to another.  It does not create wealth and is therefore not productive for the economy.  No capital is invested and no wealth is created, it is only moved.  It's economic masturbation (no pun intended).
Your declaring it does not make it so. You didn't bother to actually demonstrate how the following does not apply to prostitution...:
Prostitution generates income for its respective houses of brothelry. The prostitutes are paid a sum that is worth more than the capital invested in the act of prostitution (insurance, STD testing, etc.), and the people paying them receive greater benefit than is being paid out (obviously, or else they wouldn't be buying the darn prostitute in the first place).

...because you can't.

Of course, you're only half Keynesian, your economics are also inherently Marxist (as you yourself have admitted).

I love the authority with which you debate economics. :lol: ...Yet your positions are so absurd: like your not seeing a contradiction in A: free exchange of goods and services "driving wealth upwards", presumably making the poor poorer, yet admittedly somehow B: the American people, capitalism-enslaved workforce that they are, have become so wealthy that the vast majority will never be willing to flip burgers a day in their life. But that's not creation of value (wealth)! No, it's redistribution of wealth, upwards! We're stealing all that value from the third world! You know, when we outsource and abuse them by "underpaying" them!!!1!

If it sounds ridiculous, that's because it is.
 

marshaul

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AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
By the way, the "loss of value" argument is fallacious.

An economy is not a zero-sum game.
 

You've lost me already.
That's the whole point.

 

Explain how it's not a zero sum game, because you've got most, if not all, of the world against you on that one.  Nature itself is zero-sum.  Economies are no different.
The whole world is against me, huh? Forgetting that being an argumentum ad populum,

http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/

Oh, look, there's someone who argues that global economics are not zero-sum. What a surprise. And yes, I did just google that.
 

AWDstylez

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marshaul wrote:
http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/

Oh, look, there's somehow who argues that global economics are not zero-sum. What a surprise. And yes, I did just google that.

No no, I want you to explain it to me. I don't want a link and dash. I can link and dash that Elvis is still alive, aliens exist, the moon is made of cheese, the earth is flat, we're actually living in the Matrix, etc.

Tell me in your own words, from your own understanding.
 
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