imported post
skidmark wrote:
link to Lipscomb decision at
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/1644002.pdf
Lipscomb was a passenger in a car driven onto posted property. The decision reversing his conviction was based on the fact that he ould not, in the circumstances of being a passenger, get out before the car entered the posted property - thus failing to demonstrate the required intent to violate the "No Trespassing" sign's authority.
In the OP's situation, there is clear intent to violate the sign's authority, as exists also in the writings of those of you who look for schoolboy ruses as a way of not seeing the sign you either know or believe may be there,
Remember, the decision says that when you are able to control your action of entering or not entering the space controlled by the "No Trespassing" sign, it merely has to be where "an average person would be able to see it." [see above for how the definition of "an average person" will be decided, and who will decide whether or not that "average person" would have been able to see the sign.
How about we agree to stop trying to find ways to violate the law and get back to the discussion of what, if anything, we ought to do about businesses that post their premises against the carry of firearms?
stay safe.
skidmark
Hold the phone a second. In my OP for this topic. I never said I was going to violate the sign. I said I wasn't even carrying at the time I saw this sign. I did say I had OC'd and CC'd to this place several times before yet never once having seen it before. The only reasonI noticed this time was I was sitting in the car right in front of this doorlooking at the window displays.
Now with that said. I stopped by this Texaco about 11:30 am but the manager was not in at the time. I left my name and number and requested he call me. I'll stop by again tomorrow. Clerk said he works 6am to 2pm. If he's not in then that's it for me as I leave Thursday morning for Oklahoma. Here is the conversation I had with the female clerk. The male clerk had nothing to say. This is to the best of my memory as i had an interesting day. See my other topic post for that event.
Me-I walked in (unarmed) introduced myself and and asked if the manager was in.
Female clerk-No Mr. (forgot name) was not in.
Me-Does he have a business card or a point of contact so i can get in touch with him?
FC-No card and I don't know his cell number. But he is usually here from 6am-2pm.
Me-I'd like to leave my contact info for him and have him call me.
FC-OK, is there something I can help you with?
Me-I write down my info and ask her what the deal with the "No Weapons" sign was.
FC-Its to deter any thugs from trying to carry in here.
Me-You do realise that criminals look for signs like that as a place to rob. Its say to them that its an easy target.
FC-Well I didn't put it up and so far its worked. We haven't been robbed as long as I have worked here.
Me-That's good to hear. I hope you never do. Is it a manager policy or corporate policy to have that sign?
FC-I believe its a corporate as we had one at the other station I worked at.
Me-I'm asking this as I just noticed this sign 2 days ago and had open carried and concealed carried in her several times and was never told I couldn't.
FC-Its because your a good looking guy and don't look like a thug. If you look like a thug we will ask you to leave. but if your a cop, military police, or a good looking guy we won't ask you to leave.
Me-So what your saying is if I carry in here you won't ask me to leave even though its store and corporate policy. So its a policy you enforce at your own discretion.
FC-Yes, but like I said if your a thug we don't want you carrying in here.
Me-Its funny you say that as you also have the "No Smoking sign as well andI have seen employees standing in front of the door smoking. Kind of ironic ya know.
FC-That's to keep people from walking in here with a smoke is all. We will smoke outside the door so we can see whats going on.
ME-I'm could care less about the "No Smoking" sign.I'm just concerned asa law abiding citizen will be the only one to follow that policy. Criminals will not. Criminals are criminals for a reason, cause they have no regard for the law.
(here is where things got interesting)
FC-That's rather F-up. I'm a convicted felon and as such this is about the only job I can get. My felony wasn't physical at all but its still a felony.
Me-I'm sorry if I offended you but I was just using an example.
FC-I've been clean of the law for some time and ifI didn't have the felony I'd carry all the time. (she is a short skinny gal about 5'5" and about 110lbs maybe, she did have many tattoos on her arms and neck, kinda scary looking)
Me-If you was able to, I hoped you would. More people should step up and take there safety into there own hands and not depend on law enforcement.
FC-Screw the police.If a thug comes in and tries to hold us up he better hope I'm not here.I got nothing to loose and I'll kick his ass.
Me-I hope that never happens. But if you could please let the manager knowI stopped by and to call me I'd like to get or see a copy of this corporate policy.
FC-I sure will darling (found that funny). Why is it so important to you anyway?
Me-I'm a concerned about my safety and I choose not to use stores at discriminate against law abiding citizen and my ability to defend myself. I'm also a member of an on line guns rights talk forum open carry dot org and a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. A Virgina based RTKBA and 2nd amendment group.
FC-Never heard of them. (being a felon I didn't figure she would have)
Me-I said you have a nice safe day. Its been a pleasure talking with you. ( I shook her hand started to leave)
FC-Sure thing darling come back anytime.
Several customers came in and out while we talked but none of them said a word but one guy did get a perplexed look on his face. She was very nice and aside from a slip of the tongue was a good chat.
