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Thread: RIFLES... Can you CC one in VA?

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I have a CHP, even though I usually OC everwhere I go.

    Can I CC a rifle in my vehicle? I've read Section 18.2-287.4 and how it applies to cities of populations of at least 160,000 people, etc and does not apply to CHP holders.

    It says nothing about a CONCEALED long gun. The CHP also saysnothing about rifles or shotguns, either.

    I wonder becausesometimeswhenI travel around the state, I would like to have a bit more firepower available than the just my .45 cal pistol and a couple extra magazines.

    I know Virginialaw USUALLY says if it isn'tspecifically prohibited, it is allowed; but Ihave no clue how they feel about rifles hidden from view insomething that is not obviously a rifle case.

    Sorry this isn't an OC issue or even a pistol issue, but I don't know any other Scholars of Virginia Law like there are available on here...


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    If you are capable of "concealing" a long gun then you are sufficiently a ninja or you have modified it somehow else illegally (sawed-off).

    Now that I read it again, I'm not sure I understand the question at all and rescind my initial comment about the CHP.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Not Ninja style... A WASR 10/63 (AK-47 clone) fits very nicely with room to spare in one of those folding chair bags, even with a 30-round magazine inserted!


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    While it would be quite a feat to conceal a long gun within one's clothing, don't forget that the "concealed" status generally applies to handguns that are within reach inside a car as well. I suspect that is the nature of the question at hand.

    TFred


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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Yes, that would be the point. More specifially: An AK-type rifle "hidden" from common view located inside a folding chair bagin the back seat of a car. I don't think the need to use it would ever arise, but you never know when you're on the road and the feces REALLY hits the rotating oscillator and someone is "going to work" on traffic or a large area using a long gun. You wouldn't feel very comfortable with your pistol out if a BG is 50 yards away doing BG stuff with a rifle.

    Just a thought. I've been reading a lot of stuff lately, and not all of it involved the wearing of "tin-foil hats".
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    ...and someone is "going to work" on traffic or a large area using a long gun. You wouldn't feel very comfortable with your pistol out if a BG is 50 yards away doing BG stuff with a rifle.
    Just ask the North Hollywood LEOs who faced-off against Phillips and Matasareanu.

    Just a thought. I've been reading a lot of stuff lately, and not all of it involved the wearing of "tin-foil hats".
    Dude, there's a lot of people thinking a lot of "tin foil hat" type things today that five years ago would have been grounds for committal. Nowadays they're the fringe guys, not even on the weird radar.

    I'm pretty sure I'm one of 'em.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    You cannot legally conceal a rifle or shotgun in VA. If it is within your reach, it must be visible or encased in a gun case. CHP does not protect you from a concealed weapon charge for anything but handguns.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Thank you. That's what I wanted to know!

    Mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Ah yes, Philip jogged my memory. The statute granting CHPs says it's illegal generally to conceal firearms (and a lot of other weapons...) except for handguns, if you have a CHP...

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    TFred


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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    While I hate them, what about a AR/AK pistol?

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.



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    hsmith wrote:
    While I hate them, what about a AR/AK pistol?
    If it's legally a pistol, then your CHP covers it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.

    Thank you once again, Mr. Van Cleave. I did read that particular paragraph several times and understand that my CHP DOES allow me to have a magazine larger than 20 rounds in those large cities. "The prohibition against carrying these loaded firearms does not apply to ... CHP holders"

    I plan to keep it in a NON-descript case (the folding chair bag) because I will be exiting the vehicle from time to time and don't want a rifle case visible to those walking by the vehicle. That just screams "STEAL ME" while the nylon folding chair bag sittingin the back along with a folding picnic table and other innocent looking items just looks like household "junk" that wouldn't interest the average BG walking down the street...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  15. #15
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.

    Thank you once again, Mr. Van Cleave. I did read that particular paragraph several times and understand that my CHP DOES allow me to have a magazine larger than 20 rounds in those large cities. "The prohibition against carrying these loaded firearms does not apply to ... CHP holders"

    I plan to keep it in a NON-descript case (the folding chair bag) because I will be exiting the vehicle from time to time and don't want a rifle case visible to those walking by the vehicle. That just screams "STEAL ME" while the nylon folding chair bag sittingin the back along with a folding picnic table and other innocent looking items just looks like household "junk" that wouldn't interest the average BG walking down the street...
    Just don't have it in that folding bag within reach. It must be out of reach if concealed.

  16. #16
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.

    Thank you once again, Mr. Van Cleave. I did read that particular paragraph several times and understand that my CHP DOES allow me to have a magazine larger than 20 rounds in those large cities. "The prohibition against carrying these loaded firearms does not apply to ... CHP holders"

    I plan to keep it in a NON-descript case (the folding chair bag) because I will be exiting the vehicle from time to time and don't want a rifle case visible to those walking by the vehicle. That just screams "STEAL ME" while the nylon folding chair bag sittingin the back along with a folding picnic table and other innocent looking items just looks like household "junk" that wouldn't interest the average BG walking down the street...
    Just don't have it in that folding bag within reach. It must be out of reach if concealed.
    Thank You, Sir!

    MSC
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    No offense to Philip, but y'all realize you are taking verbal information about the law without cites.

    Presidents who visit infrequently wouldn't be expected to know the OCDO rules on citing authority--statutes, case law, legal bulletins, etc.

    Y'all should be 'shamed o' yo'selves, leadin' the President into breakin' the rules like that.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Thank you Citizen, you are correct. Phillip is actually citing my original post about the 20-round magazine and the size of cities and how it doesn't apply to CHP holders. {Sec 18.2-287.4}

    I still can't find a specific law that prohibits concealing a loaded rifle. The site above doesn't apply to CHP holders.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    SNIP I still can't find a specific law that prohibits concealing a loaded rifle. The site above doesn't apply to CHP holders.
    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot,...



    Generally speaking, 18.2-308, makes all concealed weapons illegal, then goes on to give the exceptions. One exception being, of course, the Concealed Handgun Permit.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    VCDL President wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    While I hate them, what about a AR/AK pistol?
    If it's legally a pistol, then your CHP covers it.
    finally...a practical use for these AK and AR "pistols" besides blasting money away downrange!


  21. #21
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.

    This may help.

    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    But you still can't conceal it, and it's not clear to whom (or when) you make your case that a long gun is necessary for personal protection.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    2a4all wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Phillip:

    Can a loaded magazine for said rifle be readily accessable if the rifle is visible?
    You bet. And that is the way to do it if you plan on that rifle being used for self-defense.

    Although by state law you can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, there are exceptions based on local laws and hunting laws and guns loaded with magazines that will hold MORE than 20 rounds in some large cities. My advice, keep in mind I am NOT a lawyer, is to keep the rifle or shotgun unloaded, in plain sight with a magazine or ammo nearby. If you decide to keep the gun out of reach (say in the trunk), I would still advise that you keep in unloaded.

    This may help.
    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    But you still can't conceal it, and it's not clear to whom (or when) you make your case that a long gun is necessary for personal protection.
    Hence the advantage of an unloaded rifle with a magazine nearby.


  23. #23
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    I think we covered this a couple years back, but I can't find:
    Is a hatchback, back of a station wagon, back of an SUV, etc considered to be "inaccessible."
    Caselaw cite?

  24. #24
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    ufcfanvt wrote:
    I think we covered this a couple years back, but I can't find:
    Is a hatchback, back of a station wagon, back of an SUV, etc considered to be "inaccessible."
    Caselaw cite?
    Wow... Ummmm ufc?

    How did you know I had a station wagon/hatchback type vehicle? You been working your Google-Fu on street level again?:what:
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  25. #25
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    nova wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    While I hate them, what about a AR/AK pistol?
    If it's legally a pistol, then your CHP covers it.
    finally...a practical use for these AK and AR "pistols" besides blasting money away downrange!
    While yes its legal to carry a AK/AR pistol it may not be the smartest thing to do.

    Even in a clear cut case of Self Defense the type of firearm used may be used against you. I think like you in that self defense is self defense and regarldess of what you used to defend yourself it should not matter if you used a Browning Ma Deuce or if you used a Pink Cricket. However, many don't think like us. Just ask Gary Fadden. AS this happen in Chantilly, VA and was probably one of the clearest cases of Self Defense I've ever read about. However, the type of firearm used for defense may come back to haunt you. Yes you may get off, howver you mayloose everything in the process. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_112685749/

    Even if that article did not persuade you. IIRC the Virginia Law Foundation http://www.vacle.org/php-bin/ecomm4/...product_id=771Firearms Law in Virginia Seminar Materials has a document which discussess the usage of Firearms such as the AR pistol, SP-89, AK pistol in VA as a self defense firearm. While yes they are legal to carry under the CHP, they advise against it. I don't have a link directly to that; however, you can purchase the document from the above link.

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