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Thread: Can someone help answer my questions????

  1. #1
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    I am hoping that someone can help me. First, I am a female so please don't bash me too much

    My husband openly carries in VA everyday. He was working on Sunday and had to travel into Mayland to estimate a few jobs. He put his handgun under his seat. He took off his seatbelt to get his money for the toll. When he took it off he got pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt.

    The Balitmore Transportation Authority asked him why he was shaking so bad. My husband informed the officer that he has a medical condition causing trimmers, and has medical doctumention of this. The officer said it made him nervous, so he placed him under arrest.

    Once handcuffed and standing at the police car,another officer started searchingthe truck after my husband informed them they can't. While officer "A" was searching the truck, officer "B" asked if there was anything in there. At that point my husband stated he had a gun. So, I guess my question is, Are they allowed to search the vechial after they place him under arrest? If not what do I do from here??

    He has to go back on the 28th of this month for the firarm charge. My husband is very knowlegeable when it come to this stuff, (Although, he is an idiot for taking it into MD, when he knows better) but I want a little more insite.

    BTW...He does have a voice recorder. The recording came out pretty crappy though. We also have a lawyer, so i am looking for additional view points to disscus with him.

    Thank you for your help.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Get a pro-2nd attorney. Heck, any attorney worth his salt should be able to get all but the seatbelt charge thrown out.

    Violation of 4th amendment rights for starters.

    However, after he denied them permission to search the vehicle he should have kept his mouth shut. Nothing good ever comes from talking to a police officer once you have been arrested.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  3. #3
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    Admitting that he had that gun was a bad move. Lying would not be good, either. It would have been smarter to simply not reply.

    If you are not within reach of your vehicle, they can't search it - a 4th amendment violation. However, when he said he had a gun, that gave them probable cause to do that search look for the contraband based on a statement by the suspect and I'll bet that is going to be a problem for your husband.

    Get a good lawyer.


  4. #4
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    sloesgirl wrote:
    I am hoping that someone can help me. First, I am a female so please don't bash me too much

    My husband openly carries in VA everyday. He was working on Sunday and had to travel into Mayland to estimate a few jobs. He put his handgun under his seat. He took off his seatbelt to get his money for the toll. When he took it off he got pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt.

    The Balitmore Transportation Authority asked him why he was shaking so bad. My husband informed the officer that he has a medical condition causing trimmers, and has medical doctumention of this. The officer said it made him nervous, so he placed him under arrest.

    Once handcuffed and standing at the police car,another officer started searchingthe truck after my husband informed them they can't. While officer "A" was searching the truck, officer "B" asked if there was anything in there. At that point my husband stated he had a gun. So, I guess my question is, Are they allowed to search the vechial after they place him under arrest? If not what do I do from here??

    He has to go back on the 28th of this month for the firarm charge. My husband is very knowlegeable when it come to this stuff, (Although, he is an idiot for taking it into MD, when he knows better) but I want a little more insite.

    BTW...He does have a voice recorder. The recording came out pretty crappy though. We also have a lawyer, so i am looking for additional view points to disscus with him.

    Thank you for your help.
    There's some details missing, so I'm going to make a few guesses.

    If he was shaking badly, more than likely the officer handcuffed him not because he was under arrest, but because he was under investigatory detention. There is a difference. If they believed that he may have been on something, that may have caused the search.

    If he was in fact under arrest (for what I'm not sure at this point) then they can do a search of the vehicle for inventory purposes.

    Either way, there's alot of details missing. Can't call it just yet....
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    and we all wish you and your husband good luck.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    It seems to me that if his being put in handcuffs is an investigatory detention, and they started searching the vehicle before he mentioned the gun, then the search should be illegal, and fruits of the search should be inadmissable. The state may try to argue that his admission came before the gun was found, assuming that is what happened. Not sure how that would turn out.

    If his being put in handcuffs was an arrest, then you can argue the arrest is illegal, and thus the subsequent search is illegal. Further if he was arrested and not read Miranda rights, then can argue his statement re the gun is inadmissable.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    We have at least one 2nd Amendment attorney on this site who goes by the handle "user".


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Good luck to him and you.
    Isn't recording unbeknownst to the 2nd party in Maryland illegal?
    Maryland is a two-party-consent state. Md. Cts. & Jud. Proc.Code Ann. Sec. 10-402 (1980)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ufcfanvt wrote:
    Good luck to him and you.
    Isn't recording unbeknownst to the 2nd party in Maryland illegal?
    Maryland is a two-party-consent state. Md. Cts. & Jud. Proc.Code Ann. Sec. 10-402 (1980)
    Best of luck to your husband!

    I agree with ufcanvt. Mary Land is a lot different than Virginia and I don't know anything about their law.

    I think we have a MD forum and they may be the best ones to talk to. Please keep us updated.

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    Call Richard Gardiner. His office is in Fairfax and he is very good.

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    didn't the supreme court make a new determination about searches incident to arrest? seems to me if this guy was in cuffs standing by the police car, there was no officer safety issue to allow the vehicle search. Of course, answering the question with stating that there was a gun in the car may sink him.

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    Of course, answering the question with stating that there was a gun in the car may sink him.
    That was my thought. Though, in reality, he only did it because he knew they were already conducting an illegal search...

  13. #13
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    Yep. Two-Party State. Actually read it:
    (3) It is lawful under this subtitle for a person to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where the person is a party to the communication and where all of the parties to the communication have given prior consent to the interception unless the communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of this State.

    http://law.justia.com/maryland/codes/gcj/10-402.html

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    didn't the supreme court make a new determination about searches incident to arrest? seems to me if this guy was in cuffs standing by the police car, there was no officer safety issue to allow the vehicle search. Of course, answering the question with stating that there was a gun in the car may sink him.

    Yes, you are correct. http://www.flexyourrights.org/gant_ruling

    The Supreme Court ruled[...] in Arizona v. Gant that vehicle searches following an arrest are legal only if the suspect has access to the vehicle or if officers reasonably believe the vehicle contains evidence related to that arrest. In other words, police are now required to have an actual reason to justify the vehicle search, instead of being allowed to do it automatically.


    However, answering the cop's question was not the brightest thing to do. You never, NEVER talk to the Police. You can only lose. Better to keep your mouth firmly shut and wait until the court date.

    If you ever think that talking to the Police may be a good idea, watch the video on the following link until you get that silly idea out of your head:

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

    Oh, did I mention to NEVER talk to the Police?







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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    NinjaRider wrote:
    DKSuddeth wrote:
    didn't the supreme court make a new determination about searches incident to arrest? seems to me if this guy was in cuffs standing by the police car, there was no officer safety issue to allow the vehicle search. Of course, answering the question with stating that there was a gun in the car may sink him.

    Yes, you are correct. http://www.flexyourrights.org/gant_ruling

    The Supreme Court ruled[...] in Arizona v. Gant that vehicle searches following an arrest are legal only if the suspect has access to the vehicle or if officers reasonably believe the vehicle contains evidence related to that arrest. In other words, police are now required to have an actual reason to justify the vehicle search, instead of being allowed to do it automatically.


    However, answering the cop's question was not the brightest thing to do. You never, NEVER talk to the Police. You can only lose. Better to keep your mouth firmly shut and wait until the court date.

    If you ever think that talking to the Police may be a good idea, watch the video on the following link until you get that silly idea out of your head:

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

    Oh, did I mention to NEVER talk to the Police?





    But BUT....the police are your friends. They only want to help!:shock:

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    But BUT....the police are your friends. They only want to help...
    ...themselves to your personal effects for use against you.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Traveling to Maryland a few weeks ago I took off my GLOCK and had it in a bag in the car figuring the bitches can't search my bag? I haven't been pulled over by a cop since 1983 anyway. Good to know about the seat belt law.

    Maryland sucks.



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    Thank you everyone for the wonderful advise and helping me better understand the laws and how things work.

    Looks like we can't use the voice recorder oh, well. Nothing I can do about that.

    I will update everyone after court on the 28th.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    sloesgirl wrote:
    Thank you everyone for the wonderful advise and helping me better understand the laws and how things work.

    Looks like we can't use the voice recorder oh, well. Nothing I can do about that.

    I will update everyone after court on the 28th.
    I would definitely tell your lawyer that you have a recording, and try to transcribe it the best you can.

    I don't know all the details or the penalties for everything involved in this case, but if an illegal recording can save you from a bogus felony firearms charge, it may be well worth it. Ha, well if they admit it... maybe they won't allow it in court if it was illegally made...

    Your lawyer should know all these answers.

    TFred


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    sloesgirl wrote:
    Thank you everyone for the wonderful advise and helping me better understand the laws and how things work.

    Looks like we can't use the voice recorder oh, well. Nothing I can do about that.

    I will update everyone after court on the 28th.
    I would definitely tell your lawyer that you have a recording, and try to transcribe it the best you can.

    I don't know all the details or the penalties for everything involved in this case, but if an illegal recording can save you from a bogus felony firearms charge, it may be well worth it. Ha, well if they admit it... maybe they won't allow it in court if it was illegally made...

    Your lawyer should know all these answers.

    TFred

    The flip side is that they drop another charge in his pocket for recording them.

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  21. #21
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I agree with the above. I hate Maryland.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    I've been to Maryland several times with my .45 for the purpose of going to an IPSC match, but the gun was unloaded and locked in a carry case in the trunk.

    I was still nervous.

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    I've been to Maryland several times with my .45 for the purpose of going to an IPSC match, but the gun was unloaded and locked in a carry case in the trunk.

    I was still nervous.
    If I was going to carry my pistol through Maryland, I would just keep it out of sight, well away from where I keep my insurance and registration. I would also stick to the speed limit and not stop unless absolutely necessary. If pulled over, I would refuse any and all searches and not answer any questions.

    Everyone should watch "Busted: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    It is about 45 minutes long and WELL worth the time to watch.





  24. #24
    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    If you're going to Maryland don't be stupid, follow the law. If you are traveling through the state or to a location in Maryland where you can legally have the pistol (like to the range), then keep it unloaded and locked up in the trunk. If you are visiting Maryland to do some sightseeing, leave it at home. Or do like I do, DON"T GO TO MARYLAND! Visiting there for a few hours is not worth the risk of getting a felony conviction and losing your right to carry forever.

    In the case of having it unloaded in the trunk, does anyone know how Maryland treats a loaded magazine? I have heard that in some states having rounds in the mag (even stored separately from the gun) will get you charged with having a loaded firearm. All the more reason to to stay below the Mason Dixon line.

  25. #25
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    vt357 wrote:
    ...DON"T GO TO MARYLAND!

    ..all the more reason to to stay below the Mason Dixon line.
    Geographically and ironically, but not philosophically, Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon Line.





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