Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 180

Thread: Detained at Pick N Save

  1. #1
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    While shopping at Pick N Save (have shopped there several times while carrying without incident) in Watertown this morning I was approached by 2 Watertown officers. One said the manager didn't want anyone carrying firearms in the store and asked for my drivers license. I told him I didn't need to give it to him but would give him my name. He told me you can either give me your drivers license or take a trip to the police station to be finger printed. Not wanting to do that I gave him the license-probably should have let him take me in. He ran my license. He said the manager asked that I not return with my firearm. The officer (Sergeant) then whipped out a school zone map and told me to be sure not to carry anywhere in these areas. I told him it did not apply to private property, he said that would only apply to your private property. I told him I would send a copy of the law to his chief so they understood the law. He further stated the manager was OK with me paying for what I had but not to continue shopping. I was done shopping at this point anyway so paid and left.
    I will be sending a letter to the store manager letting him know that my wife and I spend thousands of dollars in that store yearly and could just as well spend it down the street, which we will be doing. I will copy that to Pick N Save corporate. I will also file a freedom of information request with the police dept. for copies of all reports etc. relevant to this incident.
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  2. #2
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Berlin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    844

    Post imported post

    interesting... I placed a call to the Vice President of Retail Operations and Customer Satisfaction at Roundy's Corporate location. He is out of the office today, but I spoke to his secretary for a moment and then left him a voicemail. Hopefully I'll hear from him tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.



  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,818

    Post imported post

    That stinks....more officers in need of an education.

    Did you happen tohave a voice recorder on you?
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Lex malla, lex nulla

  4. #4
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    Oh Ya!
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  5. #5
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Berlin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    844

    Post imported post


  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Greenfield, WI / Grand Forks, ND, ,
    Posts
    218

    Post imported post

    They said the School Zone law applies to Private Property? Oh boy.

    Those poor officers definitely need an education.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    196

    Post imported post

    if the manager didnt want you shopping there then why didnt he/she ask you to leave?

    if they called the cops JUST to ask you to leave i have to wonder how long it took for that call to be received and the cops to actually get there..
    would show how long it would take had there been a robbery for someone to get there.. all the while putting there customers at risk because they don't want any scary guns in the store.

    i have shopped at 3 different pick and save locations with no problems at all.

    i am eager to hear what roundys corp. has to say about it.
    if they do decide to make it policy.. then ill be shopping at rupena's (7641 W Beloit Rd, milwaukee) at least they havent said anything bad about me carrying.. and i know they have seen it because they asked me about it... might cost a little more.. but its worth it.




  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    comp45acp wrote:
    While shopping at Pick N Save (have shopped there several times while carrying without incident) in Watertown this morning I was approached by 2 Watertown officers. One said the manager didn't want anyone carrying firearms in the store and asked for my drivers license. I told him I didn't need to give it to him but would give him my name. He told me you can either give me your drivers license or take a trip to the police station to be finger printed. Not wanting to do that I gave him the license-probably should have let him take me in. He ran my license. He said the manager asked that I not return with my firearm. The officer (Sergeant) then whipped out a school zone map and told me to be sure not to carry anywhere in these areas. I told him it did not apply to private property, he said that would only apply to your private property. I told him I would send a copy of the law to his chief so they understood the law. He further stated the manager was OK with me paying for what I had but not to continue shopping. I was done shopping at this point anyway so paid and left.
    I will be sending a letter to the store manager letting him know that my wife and I spend thousands of dollars in that store yearly and could just as well spend it down the street, which we will be doing. I will copy that to Pick N Save corporate. I will also file a freedom of information request with the police dept. for copies of all reports etc. relevant to this incident.
    You should have left the food there - you rewarded the manager for telling you to leave - it would appear that the police had no authority to detain you, so contact a lawyer and consider suing for damages.

    Next time, at least leave the items there in the store if ejected.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    77

    Post imported post

    I just sent an email to them. I shop at my local Pick'n'Save all the time and haven't had any issues, but I'd rather not have any. It sounds like the officers in this case were very ill-informed, too,or they perhaps misunderstood their memo from the chief.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Are you on trespass notice? Effective notice being a legitimate function of the police presence.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,170

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    You should have left the food there - you rewarded the manager for telling you to leave - it would appear that the police had no authority to detain you, so contact a lawyer and consider suing for damages.

    Next time, at least leave the items there in the store if ejected.
    I am in agreement with Mike, if they do not want you to exercise a protected right, leave the cart where it stands and leave. of course an over the shoulder "one-finger salute" may also be in order too.

    Since you were not breaking any laws, or in the commission of a crime or have shown evidencethat you wereabout to commit a crime.
    Your rights were disregarded and ignored by these officers. You had no legal obligation to supply identification, but chose to do so by their threat of arrest known as their "trip downtown to be fingerprinted".
    Typical coercion by the police that do not know the laws they are entrusted to enforce.

    My comments are not condemming your actions, but instead the actions of the police officers involved in this situation. I highly doubt this was enough for an attorney to want to take on a deprivation of rights suit against the police on a contingency basis.
    So again we are screwed by overzealous police that do not know the laws.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    3,481

    Post imported post

    "I highly doubt this was enough for an attorney to want to take on a deprivation of rights suit against the police on a contingency basis.
    So again we are screwed by overzealous police that do not know the laws."

    I disagree there is plenty of grounds for a Deprivation of Rights law suit.

    TITLE 42 - THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
    CHAPTER 21 - CIVIL RIGHTS
    SUBCHAPTER I - GENERALLY
    § 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any
    State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of
    the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights,
    privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured
    in an action at law, suit in equity
    , or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action
    brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity,
    injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief
    was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to
    the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
    (R.S. § 1979; Pub. L. 96–170, § 1, Dec. 29, 1979, 93 Stat. 1284; Pub. L. 104–317, title III, § 309(c), Oct.
    19, 1996, 110 Stat. 3853.)

    File suit against all parties involved, then maybe the police will take the time to learn the laws they are suppose to be enforcing. It is time for us to step up! There are attorneys that will do this.

    Send a copy of this to Pick -N- Save

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    367

    Post imported post

    This is the 3rd incident reported on this site about Pick'n Save.

    springfield1911 just had an issue on July 3rd in Racine.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...jump_to=467413

    GJD had an incident early on in a Kenosha Pick'n Save.



  14. #14
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Are you on trespass notice?* Effective notice being a legitimate function of the police presence.
    The word trespass was never used. They just said "the manager doesn't want you in here while you are carrying a gun".
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    367

    Post imported post

    Do you think it would be worth while for someone to write a letter to the Chief of Police in Watertown just to inform him of the "provide ID or take a trip downtown for fingerprinting"?

    Maybe this is something they can handle internally so the officer is better informed in the future... did you get the officers name or badge #?

  16. #16
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    Mugenlude wrote:
    Do you think it would be worth while for someone to write a letter to the Chief of Police in Watertown just to inform him of the "provide ID or take a trip downtown for fingerprinting"?

    Maybe this is something they can handle internally so the officer is better informed in the future...* did you get the officers name or badge #?
    I will be contacting the Chief with a Freedom of Information Request and letting him know his officers exceeded their authority.
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,026

    Post imported post

    comp45acp wrote:
    Mugenlude wrote:
    Do you think it would be worth while for someone to write a letter to the Chief of Police in Watertown just to inform him of the "provide ID or take a trip downtown for fingerprinting"?

    Maybe this is something they can handle internally so the officer is better informed in the future... did you get the officers name or badge #?
    I will be contacting the Chief with a Freedom of Information Request and letting him know his officers exceeded their authority.
    Don't forget to point out that they also committed a federal crime, that you have audio recorded evidence, and would like to know the procedure for swearing out a criminal complaint. (doesn't mean you have to, but it's nice info to know for the future!)

    Another thing to remember, Wis. has a stop and ID statute :

    968.24 Temporary questioning without arrest.

    After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.
    HOWEVER the statute is NOT carte blanche to stop anyone for any reason and demand they comply with an ID request. The requirements for this statute to have effect are clearly spelled out (highlighted in red above), and absent the required RAS you don't even have to give your name verbally. And even WITH valid RAS there is no provision for them to demand 'documents' from you....your name and address, provided verbally, are all that is required by law.

    Remember...when approached in this manner, the officers are NOT your friends. They are adversarial. Your objective is to terminate the encounter as soon as possible while protecting your rights. MAKE THEM TOE THE LINE. As I've posted before in other states forums:

    Don't ASK if you are free to go.... ESTABLISH that you are:

    Am I under arrest? Open the bid with the highest card as they must 'trump' you to retain authority. I dare say 99.9% of the time this will catch them off guard and they will respond in the negative. This does two things:
    1: If you ARE under arrest, you now know to **** to protect yourself.
    2: If you are NOT under arrest, you have established such through their own statements, and just trumped any future claims of 'resisting arrest' as you peacefully walk away (after the following).


    Am I being detained? Same as above....establish through their own statements that you are NOT being detained. If they indicate that you ARE being detained, DEMAND RAS. Do not relent. It would seem to be genereal consensus that they are not required to articulate their suspicion to YOU, just that they have it for the judge, but I maintain that if they truly do have RAS then it should be no problem to voice to ME it in the instant matter in order for me to know that they are not playing on (my) ignorance and trying to trick (me) into voluntarily surrendering my rights secured by the fourth and fifth.

    If they indicate that you are NOT being detained, do not ASK if you are free to leave...make it a statement that you ARE leaving:

    "Thank you. Having established through your own statements (Emphasise that line!), that I am NOT under arrest NOR being detained I am terminating this encounter and departing forthwith [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 136);](or 'leaving immediately' if that more natural to your speach patterns). I leave you in peace, and bid you good day."

    Then turn and WALK. Any action on their part that hinders your free movement from that point on is a direct CRIMINAL violation of 18USC sec 242. Remember....recorders are your friends.

    I have had folks say that the whole "departing forthwith" and "I leave you in peace" thing was a little over the top, but I wanted to include a formal statement to establish that I was offering no resistance to any exercise of lawful authority but simply removing myself from their presence and the olde-tyme language pattern seemed to get the point across the best.










  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    367

    Post imported post

    I called and talked to Brian, the manager, at the Racine Pick'n Save about the incident with springfield 1911 last week. He stated that corporate is in the process of changing their policy to ban the carrying of firearms in the store in response to the recent law change.

    I informed him that he would be losing my business if that is the case. He didn't seem to sure about anything that was going on really, lots of uncertainty in his voice. Either way it looks like we need to take this up with corporate.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Mugenlude wrote:
    changing their policy to ban the carrying of firearms in the store in response to the recent law change.
    ??

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    367

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Mugenlude wrote:
    changing their policy to ban the carrying of firearms in the store in response to the recent law change.
    ??
    I know Doug, I informed him that no law was changed... when I tried to explain it to him, again he just seemed confused.

    I just sent off an email to Roundy's Superstores, Inc. (corporate) about the incident and their policy, or the planned change in policy.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Greeley, CO
    Posts
    433

    Post imported post

    Mugenlude wrote:
    He stated that corporate is in the process of changing their policy to ban the carrying of firearms in the store in response to the recent law change.
    So many places would rather be "criminal friendly" than keep their customers safe...
    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP
    CC permits: MN, FL, NH, PA and CO

    Member of:
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc., Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, and National Rifle Association

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    132

    Post imported post

    If you get confirmation of a policy change, I say it is time for action.

    Set the date, as soon as possible, and PICKET the headquarters, along with as many stores as possible. Get the info to that McCenna?? woman you is supposed to be "gun friendly" let her trash there business on the air a little bit, and then let's see what they say.

  23. #23
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    I also sent an email to Roundys', explained how much money my family spends in their stores and asking if they really want me to spend that money somewhere else. Waiting a response which I will post when/if I get one.
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    721

    Post imported post

    Email Sent.

    Pick n Save is getting near a monopoly in the Waukesha area....need to flood their inbox with pro-carry emails to keep them from considering a firearm ban.

  25. #25
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Berlin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    844

    Post imported post

    Set the date, as soon as possible, and PICKET the headquarters, along with as many stores as possible. Get the info to that McCenna?? woman you is supposed to be "gun friendly" let her trash there business on the air a little bit, and then let's see what they say.

    Yup! Its time to make an example out of a company and Pick N Save/ Roundy's is the perfect one. If they really do establish a anti-rights policy, We need to take decisive action. I will personally organize the protest/picket.

    Pick N Save needs to take the path of other national retailers and honor the legal rights and laws of the state.

    NO ONE has ever walked out of a pick n save or NOT spent money in a pick n save because I, Comp, or any of teh other DOZENS of us were OC'ing in pick n save. I wonder how "smart" an anti-rights policy will be in a state full of sportsmen like wisconsin. When 100 people are standing on the public sidewalk in front of various pick n saves on various days with TV camera's present (and they WILL be present) I think pick n save will realize REAL quick a little bad PR goes a LOOOONG way.

    I won't jump the gun and I'll wait for the return phone call from the VP of retail operations, but if they proceed with this unsubstantiated "rumored" policy, this is one I personally won't let go.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •