Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Richmond Grand Jury indicts Eric G. Driver for defending car and girlfriend

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Post imported post

    Man accused of shooting car break-in thief indicted for second-degree murder

    A Richmond man was indicted today on a second-degree murder charge for shooting and killing someone who was breaking into his girlfriend's car in the city's Church Hill neighborhood.

    A grand jury indicted Eric G. Driver, 25, of the 500 block of North 22nd Street, in the shooting death of Jamall Holman, 24, on April 22. The grand jury issued indictments against Driver today for second-degree murder and felonious use of a firearm in the shooting of Holman, who lived in the 1700 block of Forest Glen Road in Henrico County.

    Richmond prosecutors say Driver crossed the line by shooting Holman three times to protect property. His defense attorney, John W. Luxton, has argued that Dixon reacted instinctively because his girlfriend was frightened and thought she was in danger.

    Luxton could not be reached for comment today.
    This is a follow up to this story:

    Authorities won’t say if Leigh Street shooting victim was armed

    This is so unfortunate. Apparently, Herring is still pissed that he lost the Baskin-Robbins case. As he stated earlier:

    If someone’s stealing your property, call the police.
    Seems he will try harder this time to get a conviction. Or a plea deal.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    636

    Post imported post

    Posted yesterday and news reports last night indicated deceased was shot in the chest, not in the back as earlier reports stated.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    252

    Post imported post

    Repeater wrote:
    As he stated earlier:

    If someone’s stealing your property, call the police.
    The idea that I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. It would be nice if they could change this someday. In the meantime the police will just have to deal with it :?

    There are plenty of other states where you can legally use deadly force to protect property.

  4. #4
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213

    Post imported post

    Repeater wrote:
    Man accused of shooting car break-in thief indicted for second-degree murder

    A Richmond man was indicted today on a second-degree murder charge for shooting and killing someone who was breaking into his girlfriend's car in the city's Church Hill neighborhood.

    A grand jury indicted Eric G. Driver, 25, of the 500 block of North 22nd Street, in the shooting death of Jamall Holman, 24, on April 22. The grand jury issued indictments against Driver today for second-degree murder and felonious use of a firearm in the shooting of Holman, who lived in the 1700 block of Forest Glen Road in Henrico County.

    Richmond prosecutors say Driver crossed the line by shooting Holman three times to protect property. His defense attorney, John W. Luxton, has argued that Dixon reacted instinctively because his girlfriend was frightened and thought she was in danger.

    Luxton could not be reached for comment today.
    This is a follow up to this story:

    Authorities won’t say if Leigh Street shooting victim was armed

    This is so unfortunate. Apparently, Herring is still pissed that he lost the Baskin-Robbins case. As he stated earlier:

    If someone’s stealing your property, call the police.
    Seems he will try harder this time to get a conviction. Or a plea deal.
    Do you have a link? I missed this.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  5. #5
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Post imported post

    Wolf_shadow wrote:
    This is a follow up to this story:

    Authorities won’t say if Leigh Street shooting victim was armed

    This is so unfortunate. Apparently, Herring is still pissed that he lost the Baskin-Robbins case. As he stated earlier:

    If someone’s stealing your property, call the police.
    Seems he will try harder this time to get a conviction. Or a plea deal.
    Do you have a link? I missed this.
    Herring was interviewed back in April on a local TV station, either WTVR or WWBT, and it was clear that he did not approve of the outcome in the Baskin-Robbins case.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    636

    Post imported post

    The CA is doing the job the people elected him to do. He is not the Judge or Jury. Anyone who knows anything about the Grand Jury system knows that is is a one-sided dog and pony show. Law is law and evidence is evidence but a jury in Richmond hearing a brother on brother crime who knows. If the shooter is squeaky clean he will be acquitted, if not he will still walk. Either way the CA has done his job.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Learn from the mistakes of others....

    Do not kill people over property.

    Taking a life should be reserved to save the life of another.. not their property.

    Enough said.


    "I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. "

    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    kenny wrote:
    The CA is doing the job the people elected him to do. He is not the Judge or Jury. Anyone who knows anything about the Grand Jury system knows that is is a one-sided dog and pony show. Law is law and evidence is evidence but a jury in Richmond hearing a brother on brother crime who knows. If the shooter is squeaky clean he will be acquitted, if not he will still walk. Either way the CA has done his job.
    I have to agree with Kenny!
    Considering the number of times the fellow was shot and since it appears to be a car theft only, it was almost certain that the Grand Jury would indict him.

    Commonwealth Attorneys seem like mad dogs and in some cases are...but that's why it's called an adversarial system.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    "The idea that I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. It would be nice if they could change this someday. In the meantime the police will just have to deal with it :?

    There are plenty of other states where you can legally use deadly force to protect property."



    Good Luck even getting the police to show up for a car break in. If you're really nice they might take a report over the phone when the criminal is all done.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    252

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.
    Are you are allowed to draw on someone breaking into a car?

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bedford, Texas, USA
    Posts
    834

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    Learn from the mistakes of others....

    Do not kill people over property.

    Taking a life should be reserved to save the life of another.. not their property.

    Enough said.


    "I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. "

    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.
    LEO, I have no doubt that you would pull your weapon and draw on someone breaking in to your vehicle. You might not shoot, especially if said break in individual turned and ran away, but if they ran towards you, you would shoot.

    I can appreciate your sentiment, but don't sit here and blow the proverbial smoke by saying you wouldn't shoot someone over property, because it would eventually lead to that at some point.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    GWRedDragon wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.
    Are you are allowed to draw on someone breaking into a car?
    Drawing down and shooting someone are two different things.

    Just shooting someone three times for breaking into a car and making a girlfriend "scared" is a bit much.

    This is why a true bill was issued at the grand jury for MURDER!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    DKSuddeth wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Learn from the mistakes of others....

    Do not kill people over property.

    Taking a life should be reserved to save the life of another.. not their property.

    Enough said.


    "I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. "

    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.
    LEO, I have no doubt that you would pull your weapon and draw on someone breaking in to your vehicle. You might not shoot, especially if said break in individual turned and ran away, but if they ran towards you, you would shoot.

    I can appreciate your sentiment, but don't sit here and blow the proverbial smoke by saying you wouldn't shoot someone over property, because it would eventually lead to that at some point.
    Would I draw dawn? Sure. I have no idea if the guy is armed while i am attempting to make an arrest. I would not just go execute him for breaking into a car... even mine.

    I did not read in the story that the guy breaking into the car ran at the boyfriend... did you? Please stop working the story to fix a result you want. This changes things from a break in to a possible attack.

    So don't assume you know what I would do. I only said to learn from the mistakes of others. If you want to go shoot people over property... that is your choice. I will see you in court too.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    636

    Post imported post

    As I said earlier it appears there may have been a struggle.
    http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.as...;nav=menu128_2

    A witness nearby is the one who said Driver was chasing the BG. Nothing was said on who this witness was or how credible they are. I know the neighborhood well and all I can think of is some guy yelling "$hit yea I seen the whole thing, I was walking down the street minding my own business."

    One thing for sure none knows here what happened because we were not there. Let the system run its course and hope for the best.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    Which is an issue unresolved for me. If an unarmed man is in a struggle with you trying to take your gun does that justify deadly force ???

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    SNIP If an unarmed man is in a struggle with you trying to take your gun does that justify deadly force ???
    Depends on whether he or you are the aggressor, I should think. If you are the aggressor, his taking the gun is self-defense.

    If he is the aggressor, the bad guy may in a few moments come into possession of the "Ability"prong of AOJ.

    Massad Ayoob talks about this in his video Judicious Use of Deadly Force.Whether hereaches for a nearby table to pickup a gun lying there, or takes a gun out of your hands, he is about toaquirea deadly weapon. As Ayoob points out, you can safely assume he is not an itinerant S&W armorerwanting to give your gun a free inspection.

    Thisnext pointis mine, not Ayoob's video. If he is taking it from you,I would certainly assume he intends to use it on you. He's not running away with it. He didn't need it to run away beforehe tried to take it from you. In my mind, even if he hasn't done anything else to establish Jeopardy/Intent, you cannot afford to wait and see if he is going to escalate to deadly force after he has the gun.

    Of course, the rest of lethal force law applies. Are in a place you had a right to be? Did you bringon the hostilities by starting the fight verbally or physically? Are you in a state where you were required to retreat if safe to do so? Etc.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Exactly....

    If you pick the fight and then go for your gun when you are getting your ass whooped... You might find yourself in a bit of a pickle.

    Obviously... if you are armed... be responsible and try to avoid trouble... Do not start is because you have "backup" with you.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    An indictment is a long way from a conviction.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    636

    Post imported post

    Thundar wrote:
    An indictment is a long way from a conviction.
    Now here is something that I would like to see a cite on, of all the indictments under the current Grand Jury system in the Commonwealth how many lead to convictions?

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bedford, Texas, USA
    Posts
    834

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    DKSuddeth wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Learn from the mistakes of others....

    Do not kill people over property.

    Taking a life should be reserved to save the life of another.. not their property.

    Enough said.


    "I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. "

    Since I do not deploy deadly force against others that break into cars... please show me the Virginia law you speak of that permits the police to kill you over property.
    LEO, I have no doubt that you would pull your weapon and draw on someone breaking in to your vehicle. You might not shoot, especially if said break in individual turned and ran away, but if they ran towards you, you would shoot.

    I can appreciate your sentiment, but don't sit here and blow the proverbial smoke by saying you wouldn't shoot someone over property, because it would eventually lead to that at some point.
    Would I draw dawn? Sure. I have no idea if the guy is armed while i am attempting to make an arrest. I would not just go execute him for breaking into a car... even mine.

    I did not read in the story that the guy breaking into the car ran at the boyfriend... did you? Please stop working the story to fix a result you want. This changes things from a break in to a possible attack.

    So don't assume you know what I would do. I only said to learn from the mistakes of others. If you want to go shoot people over property... that is your choice. I will see you in court too.
    again, I didn't say you would shoot him, but you would draw on him. I may or may not shoot someone over them stealing my property (depends on what the property is) but you won't see me in court over it because I have that protection of the law in the state of TX.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    252

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    Would I draw dawn? Sure.
    Ah, but I cannot do this by law. This is what I was talking about.

    If I were in Texas where I could legally shoot someone to prevent them from stealing my car, I wouldn't just draw and pop off rounds immediately...instead I would draw and order them out of the car. If they came at me, I'd fire.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    GWRedDragon wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Would I draw dawn? Sure.
    Ah, but I cannot do this by law. This is what I was talking about.

    If I were in Texas where I could legally shoot someone to prevent them from stealing my car, I wouldn't just draw and pop off rounds immediately...instead I would draw and order them out of the car. If they came at me, I'd fire.
    The state law makers added a section to allow me because it is part of my job. Otherwise... bad guys could "fake it" and then charge me for drawing my gun thinking they were armed only to find they were no threat at all.

    This would require me to KNOW they had a gun before I drew mine or I would have to wait for them to become an obvious threat. This means I would have to react instead of act.This puts me at a disadvantage attempting to perform my duties while acting as a law enforcement officer.

    Read the code and decide how you would apply it to your own situation. It seems that you CAN do itbut you just need to explain and justify why.


    So you might want to rethink your statement that you "cannot"....




    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-282

    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

    B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

    C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.





  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    418

    Post imported post

    kenny wrote:
    A witness nearby is the one who said Driver was chasing the BG....
    If this turns out to be true, he's screwed.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    Stacy wrote:
    "The idea that I am not allowed to use deadly force to protect my property, yet the police ARE has always seemed strange to me. It would be nice if they could change this someday. In the meantime the police will just have to deal with it :?

    There are plenty of other states where you can legally use deadly force to protect property."



    Good Luck even getting the police to show up for a car break in. If you're really nice they might take a report over the phone when the criminal is all done.
    Heck, a drunk driver crashed his truck into a tree in my neighbor's yard across the street from my house a couple years ago. Norfolk PD couldn't make it out in time to arrest them. We called 911 and let them know. No Rescue was sent. Police took over 45 minutes to respond.

    End result? The drunk driver & passenger (underage by own admission while the driver took off in a 2nd vehicle) got away, the tree was severely tilted, and their vehicle was taken away before the police showed.

    The BGs never got caught. Their accomplice who aided and abetted in fleeing from the scene of an accident was never caught either.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •