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Thread: Rayburn vs Tn AG - petition amended

  1. #1
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    Now Randy Rayburns attorneys are going at the new Carry in Restaurants law from a different angle. They are going to claim "Constitutional Vagueness" as grounds to block the repealed prohibition.

    Read brief here:
    http://www.drslawfirm.com/gunsinbars/brief.pdf

  2. #2
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Did this new law replace another? If the new law is unenforceable would the carry of firearms into bars or restaurants be unrestricted?

    Will this incense the legislature to just remove the 51% requirement altogether and allow licensed carry in either establishment regardless of alcohol present or not?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    lockman wrote:
    Did this new law replace another? If the new law is unenforceable would the carry of firearms into bars or restaurants be unrestricted?

    Will this incense the legislature to just remove the 51% requirement altogether and allow licensed carry in either establishment regardless of alcohol present or not?
    No, this law simply amendedtheold law. Theold law only makes exceptions for the owner, his agents responsible protection, on Duty LEO and military engaged in their duties. The new law adds an exception for Carry Permit holders, but only within what the bill defines as a restaurant (no legal definition of bar in TN) and only if they are not consuming.

    There is no 51% in the old or new law. The new law simply added the definition of a restaurant and only allows carry in those places that meet that definition. Considering how much trouble this new law has been...in no way do I see the legislature completely doing away with the restriction of carry where alcohol is served.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
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    Well, kinda. the law governing the sale of alcohol requires that 50 % of your sales volume be in food. The definition of restaurant used in the carry bill includes all the language from the alcohol bill except the 50%. not sure why.

    The restaurant people are making the claim that a permit holder won't know whether the establishment meets the criteria. Last night John Harris, the director of the TFA, was on channel 5 call in hour and pretty much blew that arguement out of the water. He said something along the lines of it wasn't incumbent on the permit holder to ensure that the restaurant he was entering was following the alcohol law. If the restaurant was open, then they were representing themselves as being in compliance with the law, so the permit holder could enter.

    Regards,

    Pol

  5. #5
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    Wouldn't the last line of the description of "restaurant" be an implied 51% rule? It says that the establishments prodominent purpose shall be to serve food. Prodominent meaning 51% and over, I'm assuming.

    I also found something in the statutes concerning gurmet restaurants. Their requirements are that they shall have no less than 2/3 sales of food served and no less than 2/3 sales of alcohol to be wine.

    Another that I found related to establishments that server coffees, teas, and pastries. It said that such establishments that mixed alcohol in coffee, tea, or other beverages were exempt form the food serveice requirements of (TC 57-4-102(27)(A).

    There are some seating capacity requirements as well as described in 57-4-102(27)
    Talk about "mine fields".


    TC Title 57-4-102(27)


    (27) (A) “Restaurant” means any public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held

    out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and

    regularly served, without sleeping accommodations, such place being provided with adequate

    and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment and seating capacity of at least seventy-five

    (75) people at tables, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees to

    prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per day shall be

    served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays, vacations and periods

    of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted. A

    restaurant shall also be eligible for licensure under this subdivision (27)(A), if the

    restaurant serves at least one (1) meal a day at least four (4) days a week with the

    exception of holidays, vacations and periods of redecorating, and if the serving of such

    meals is the principal business conducted, and if such restaurant is only open for four (4)

    days a week;





    (B) “Restaurant” also means any bowling center that was licensed as of January

    1, 1983, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;





    (C) (i) Within a national historical landmark district or urban park center, as

    defined by this section, restaurant licensees shall not be required to meet any requirements

    of this section which make food service, maintenance of a kitchen, or a dining room a

    prerequisite to the issuance of a restaurant permit to serve liquor by the drink. The

    provisions of this subdivision (27)(C) shall apply only to counties with a population of

    more than four hundred thousand (400,000) according to the 1980 census, but those counties

    having a metropolitan form of government shall be exempt from the provisions of this

    subdivision (27)(C);





    (ii) Within a sports authority facility as defined in this section,

    restaurant licensees shall not be required to meet any of the requirements of subdivision

    (27)(A) which make food service, maintenance of a kitchen, or a dining room a prerequisite

    for the issuance of a permit to serve liquor by the drink;





    (D) Notwithstanding the minimum seating capacity established in subdivision

    (27)(A), for the purpose of a permit to serve wine, “restaurant” means any lodge or resort

    with sleeping accommodations where meals are served that is located on land which is owned

    by the United States department of the interior, is operated by the national park service or

    its agents or contractors and is located in a county with a population of not less than

    forty-one thousand four hundred (41,400) nor more than forty-one thousand five hundred

    (41,500), according to the 1980 federal census or any subsequent federal census;





    (E) Notwithstanding the minimum seating capacity established in subdivision

    (27)(A), a restaurant with a seating capacity of at least forty (40) people at tables may be

    licensed as a gourmet restaurant under this chapter. To be licensed as a gourmet restaurant,

    the establishment must obtain:





    (i) Not less than two thirds (2/3) of its annual gross sales from the sale


    of food; and





    (ii) Not less than two thirds (2/3) of its annual alcoholic beverage sales


    from the sale of wine;





    (F) “Restaurant” also means a facility located in any municipality having a

    population in excess of one hundred thousand (100,000), according to the 1990 federal

    census, or any subsequent federal census, in which coffees, teas, pastries, and other

    foodstuffs are offered for sale for consumption on the premises, which facility has a

    seating capacity of at least thirty (30) seats and which facility obtains at least fifty

    percent (50%) of its annual gross sales from the sale of coffees, teas and pastries. Any

    restaurant licensed under this subdivision (27)(F) shall be authorized to sell alcoholic

    beverages for consumption on the premises only when such beverages are mixed with coffees,

    teas and other beverages. A restaurant licensed under this subdivision (27)(F) need not meet

    the requirement of subdivision (27)(A);





    (G) “Restaurant” also means a facility:





    (i) Located within one-half (½) mile of the railroad tracks in the

    unincorporated area of any county having a population of not less than thirty thousand two

    hundred (30,200) nor more than thirty thousand four hundred seventy-five (30,475), according

    to the 1990 federal census or any subsequent federal census;





    (ii) Whose primary source of income is from serving meals to its patrons,

    both indoors and out-of-doors, and has a total seating capacity of at least seventy-five

    (75) people at tables;





    (iii) Located in a building having a total square footage of at least two

    thousand five hundred square feet (2,500 sq. ft.) which was constructed prior to 1925; and





    (iv) Which is located on a site used during the Civil War or within two

    (2) miles of two (2) or more Civil War sites, or is within one and one-half (1 ½) miles of a

    home that was built in 1884, and which is preserved as the area's best example of the Queen

    Anne and Eastlake architectural styles;





    (H) “Restaurant” also means a facility:





    (i) Located off U.S. Highway 421 in any county having a population of not

    less than seventeen thousand four hundred seventy-five (17,475) nor more than seventeen

    thousand five hundred seventy-five (17,575), according to the 2000 federal census or any

    subsequent federal census;





    (ii) Whose primary source of income is from serving meals to its patrons

    and has a total seating capacity of at least one hundred fifty (150) people; and





    (iii) Which is located next to an eighteen-hole golf course; and





    (I) “Restaurant” also means a facility:





    (i) Located on Highway 243 in a county having a population of not less

    than sixty-nine thousand four hundred (69,400) nor more than sixty-nine thousand five

    hundred (69,500), according to the 2000 federal census or any subsequent federal census;





    (ii) That has seating for not more than one hundred forty (140) people;





    (iii) That has a music and entertainment orientation;





    (iv) Whose primary source of income is derived from serving meals to its

    patrons;





    (v) That has a historic working original malt and soda fountain;





    (vi) That is located in a historical structure formerly used as a town

    hall as well as a practice venue for Grand Ole Opry hopefuls; and





    (vii) That does not discriminate against any patron on the basis of age,

    gender, race, religion or origin; and





    (J) (i) Restaurant also means a facility that:





    (a) Is owned, operated or leased by a for-profit organization

    organized under the laws of this state;





    (b) Does not discriminate against any patron on the basis of gender,

    race, religion or national origin;





    (c) Provides food service to the public or for private events and

    catering with seating capacity for at least two hundred fifty (250) persons at tables,

    whether or not the seating is inside or on a deck or patio;





    (d) Is open at least five (5) days a week serving two (2) meals daily

    with the exception of holidays, vacations, seasonal conditions and periods of redecorating,

    with suitable kitchen, dining facilities and equipment;





    (e) Is in the center of a full service marina and resort located on

    the Tennessee River at mile marker 477.5; which full service marina has at least six hundred

    (600) dry storage slips and wet slips up to eighty feet (80¢) that offers two (2) cabins

    completely furnished and an inn with twelve (12) rooms that overlooks the Tennessee River;

    and





    (f) Is located in any county having a population of not less than

    three hundred seven thousand eight hundred (307,800) nor more than three hundred seven

    thousand nine hundred (307,900), according to the 2000 federal census or any subsequent

    federal census;





    (ii) A restaurant under this subdivision (27)(J) must comply with all the

    requirements of this chapter and shall be subject to the restrictions imposed upon licenses

    other than § 57-4-103;






  6. #6
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    what are these idiots trying to do--use every possible argument they can come up with so as to have at least one point on which to argue when the rest are thrown out?

    it is sort of like their argument is "Well hey, lets add 10 or 15 points on which to argue in court, that way at least ONE of them is bound to stand up in court..."

    what a bunch of idiots.

  7. #7
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    I'm assuming that I haven't become afflicted with CSDD* yet, so I'm going tosort these establishments in this facshion.

    If I check a place out and I find that they have a large dining area, has an atmosphere that I wouldn't mind bringing my daughters, grandchildren, parents, suffy in-laws (if I had any), or pasture of my church (if I went to church), then it most likely complies with state requirements as a restaurant that serves alcohol.

    If I can stand accross the street from an establishment and hear loud music blaring from within, definition or not,it's a friggin' bar and most likely does not comply with state food sevice requirements.



    * Common Sense Deficiency Disorder

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