Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Home defense shooting in Va. Beach

  1. #1
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    http://www.wvec.com/news/vabeach/sto....13e66faa.html

    This happened Monday night right down at the end of my road. There are still a few details missing from the report, I will look for updates. I wish they mentioned what caliber was fired...

    Yesterday after I got home from work, I was walking to my mailbox, and kicked a rock in my driveway. I saw it rolling out of the corner of my eye, and it looked like an odd color. So I picked it up, and sure enough, it's a spent .45 slug, obviously went through something, because it was mushroomed out...

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Hendu024 wrote:
    SNIP So I picked it up, and sure enough, it's a spent .45 slug, obviously went through something, because it was mushroomed out...

    Thoughts?
    Evidence.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Hendu024 wrote:
    SNIP So I picked it up, and sure enough, it's a spent .45 slug, obviously went through something, because it was mushroomed out...

    Thoughts?
    Evidence.
    Uh... yeah... My thought is you might want to call someone to come pick that up!

    TFred


  4. #4
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Hendu024 wrote:
    SNIP So I picked it up, and sure enough, it's a spent .45 slug, obviously went through something, because it was mushroomed out...

    Thoughts?
    Evidence.
    Yeah, I gave it to my neighbor who is a VB cop. Most of the slug was intact, and you could see the marks on the copper jacket, so he is going to send it off to ballistics. Just what I want to see, rounds falling around my house...

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Homeowner fires on intruder, Va. Beach police say

    04:53 PM EDT on Monday, July 6, 2009

    By 13News

    VIRGINIA BEACH -- Police say a man opened fire on someone who broke into his home.

    Police were called to the 1700 block of Alvena Lane around 10:20 a.m. Monday.

    Spokeswoman Margie Long says the homeowner said he was upstairs when he heard the door open. He grabbed his handgun and went downstairs, finding the suspect in the kitchen.

    According to Long, the intruder struck the man and then they got into a struggle. At that point, Long says the homeowner fired and the suspect ran away. He didn’t know if the suspect had been hit.

    Police searched the area and, as a precaution, Salem Middle and High schools were placed on external lockdown.

    The lockdown was lifted at 11:23 a.m., said Va. Beach Schools spokeswoman Nancy Soscia.

    The search continues.

    The suspect is described as a light-skinned black male, 18-22 years old, 5’10” to 6’0” tall, approximately 185-190 pounds. He had a clean-cut, short afro hair style and had acne on his cheeks.

    He was wearing a black t-shirt with a design on the front of it and light brown “Dickies style” shorts.

    If you know anything about this case, call Crime Solvers at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP.
    Now, I am certainly no tactical defense expert, and in fact, my knowledge and practical skills in that arena are something I need to improve upon.

    However, I do believe I know enough that if I caught an intruder in my house, and managed to confront him with my home defense weapon, they are not going to be getting close enough to me to hit or even touch me!

    What am I missing here?

    TFred


  6. #6
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    Homeowner fires on intruder, Va. Beach police say

    04:53 PM EDT on Monday, July 6, 2009

    By 13News

    VIRGINIA BEACH -- Police say a man opened fire on someone who broke into his home.

    Police were called to the 1700 block of Alvena Lane around 10:20 a.m. Monday.

    Spokeswoman Margie Long says the homeowner said he was upstairs when he heard the door open. He grabbed his handgun and went downstairs, finding the suspect in the kitchen.

    According to Long, the intruder struck the man and then they got into a struggle. At that point, Long says the homeowner fired and the suspect ran away. He didn’t know if the suspect had been hit.

    Police searched the area and, as a precaution, Salem Middle and High schools were placed on external lockdown.

    The lockdown was lifted at 11:23 a.m., said Va. Beach Schools spokeswoman Nancy Soscia.

    The search continues.

    The suspect is described as a light-skinned black male, 18-22 years old, 5’10” to 6’0” tall, approximately 185-190 pounds. He had a clean-cut, short afro hair style and had acne on his cheeks.

    He was wearing a black t-shirt with a design on the front of it and light brown “Dickies style” shorts.

    If you know anything about this case, call Crime Solvers at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP.
    Now, I am certainly no tactical defense expert, and in fact, my knowledge and practical skills in that arena are something I need to improve upon.

    However, I do believe I know enough that if I caught an intruder in my house, and managed to confront him with my home defense weapon, they are not going to be getting close enough to me to hit or even touch me!

    What am I missing here?

    TFred
    From what my neighbor told me, the guy heard a noise, went downstairs with his pistol to investigate, and the intruder was hiding somewhere downstairs and suckerpunched him. I guess he didn't clear the rooms well enough.

    Apparently he also has a 4 year old daughter that was there as well. From what I was told by my neighbor today, 2 or 3 shots went off during the struggle. Those first shots went through the ceiling and up into the 2nd floor, thankfully not hitting anyone. Then he fired another 2 or 3 rounds at the perp, and those exited the walls of his house. The homeowner wasn't sure if he hit the guy or not, who fled after the last few shots.

    With the amount of people that live in a relatively small area in this neighborhood (townhouse suburbia, it sucks!!) I have reconsidered my go to gun for home defense. As I said in another thread, while my G23 is on my nightstand, my #1 in-home gun is my Remington 870 pump with a short barrel and #8 shot. It may still have enough power to exit the walls of the house, but I figure it's a little safer than a single projectile moving at a much faster speed.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Hendu024 wrote:
    From what my neighbor told me, the guy heard a noise, went downstairs with his pistol to investigate, and the intruder was hiding somewhere downstairs and suckerpunched him. I guess he didn't clear the rooms well enough.

    Apparently he also has a 4 year old daughter that was there as well. From what I was told by my neighbor today, 2 or 3 shots went off during the struggle. Those first shots went through the ceiling and up into the 2nd floor, thankfully not hitting anyone. Then he fired another 2 or 3 rounds at the perp, and those exited the walls of his house. The homeowner wasn't sure if he hit the guy or not, who fled after the last few shots.

    With the amount of people that live in a relatively small area in this neighborhood (townhouse suburbia, it sucks!!) I have reconsidered my go to gun for home defense. As I said in another thread, while my G23 is on my nightstand, my #1 in-home gun is my Remington 870 pump with a short barrel and #8 shot. It may still have enough power to exit the walls of the house, but I figure it's a little safer than a single projectile moving at a much faster speed.
    Ah, that makes sense. The stories I have read of home break-ins and especially the "lie in wait" kinds, really make me aware that just walking into my house without at least checking those potential hiding places is not a good idea. I'm not paranoid, but I do try to maintain a better situational awareness than I used to.

    If one were alerted to noises like that, I think you'd have to be even more so.

    TFred


  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Leesburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    I'm a firm believer in bird shot is for birds. If you have a 2 legged varmit charging you, birdshot may not be enough. I see you have a glock for an avatar. Is it a .22, or a more viable man stopper?

    Buckshot for Home/Self Defence. Accept no other alternatives.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    Cavymeister wrote:
    I'm a firm believer in bird shot is for birds. If you have a 2 legged varmit charging you, birdshot may not be enough. I see you have a glock for an avatar. Is it a .22, or a more viable man stopper?

    Buckshot for Home/Self Defence. Accept no other alternatives.
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    90

    Post imported post

    Hendu024 wrote:
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.
    I think you put this somewhere else on the forum, but I think it's worth mentioning again...

    Our dad played around a few years back with #8 shot & #6 shotout of a rifled slug barrel. Turns out that at 10 feet, the pattern is about3-5 feet wide depending on the strength of the load. If you're concerned about small patterns out of a shotgun at short distance and still maintaining energy behind the pellets, go try this somewhere. It'll blow your mind.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Crash7795 wrote:
    Hendu024 wrote:
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.
    I think you put this somewhere else on the forum, but I think it's worth mentioning again...

    Our dad played around a few years back with #8 shot & #6 shotout of a rifled slug barrel. Turns out that at 10 feet, the pattern is about3-5 feet wide depending on the strength of the load. If you're concerned about small patterns out of a shotgun at short distance and still maintaining energy behind the pellets, go try this somewhere. It'll blow your mind.
    Interesting. I have never read about this, shooting shot out of a rifled barrel. It makes sense though, if you get the wad to spinning, it certainly stands to reason that the shot will spread out more once it leaves the gun.

    TFred


  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Leesburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    Hendu024 wrote:
    Cavymeister wrote:
    I'm a firm believer in bird shot is for birds. If you have a 2 legged varmit charging you, birdshot may not be enough. I see you have a glock for an avatar. Is it a .22, or a more viable man stopper?

    Buckshot for Home/Self Defence. Accept no other alternatives.
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.
    Pattern size doesn't make that much of a difference if it doesn't stop the attacker. #8 will not penetrate. There isn't enough mass in those hundreds of little pellets to keep the momentum up to penetrate. Ther person being hit won't be happy, but they can easily still be combat effective. The #4 buck is still lower than I would use, but it's a HECK of a lot better then bird shot. I would use #1 or better, but 00 is what I keep in mine.

    Didn't our former Vice President shoot someone with birdshot who appologized to said Vice President later for being shot by him?

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Cavymeister wrote:
    Hendu024 wrote:
    Cavymeister wrote:
    I'm a firm believer in bird shot is for birds. If you have a 2 legged varmit charging you, birdshot may not be enough. I see you have a glock for an avatar. Is it a .22, or a more viable man stopper?

    Buckshot for Home/Self Defence. Accept no other alternatives.
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.
    Pattern size doesn't make that much of a difference if it doesn't stop the attacker. #8 will not penetrate. There isn't enough mass in those hundreds of little pellets to keep the momentum up to penetrate. Ther person being hit won't be happy, but they can easily still be combat effective. The #4 buck is still lower than I would use, but it's a HECK of a lot better then bird shot. I would use #1 or better, but 00 is what I keep in mine.

    Didn't our former Vice President shoot someone with birdshot who appologized to said Vice President later for being shot by him?
    I don't know if you've ever seen anyone shot with birdshot, but I have. Years ago, a fellow named Loker shot his wife across the room with #6 shot from a 16 ga, in the chest. ( I still have the shotgun).

    It was a mess and she was dead by the time she hit the floor. #8 might be a tad light but 4 or 6 is a definite stopper at ten feet or less.


  14. #14
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    on a rock in the james river
    Posts
    1,453

    Post imported post

    I like #4 turkey loads. Still packs a wallop, tradeoff is less penetration.

    I have shot small trees in half with buckshot; it does the same to drywall and 2x4's so for the safety of my dogs and the integrity of my home, I use the smaller lead.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    Cavymeister wrote:
    Hendu024 wrote:
    Cavymeister wrote:
    I'm a firm believer in bird shot is for birds. If you have a 2 legged varmit charging you, birdshot may not be enough. I see you have a glock for an avatar. Is it a .22, or a more viable man stopper?

    Buckshot for Home/Self Defence. Accept no other alternatives.
    At any distance inside my home, the shot pattern would be no bigger than 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Go run a few field tests on that to see the power behind it. I do also have #4 buckshot, but at 10-15 feet, a full charge of #8 shot is going to leave a hole in someone just as big as the pattern, not to mention HUNDREDS more pellets than a 00 buckshot round. And in case the intruder can stand there and take that, I can always give him 30 rounds of .40 from my Glock.
    Pattern size doesn't make that much of a difference if it doesn't stop the attacker. #8 will not penetrate. There isn't enough mass in those hundreds of little pellets to keep the momentum up to penetrate. Ther person being hit won't be happy, but they can easily still be combat effective. The #4 buck is still lower than I would use, but it's a HECK of a lot better then bird shot. I would use #1 or better, but 00 is what I keep in mine.

    Didn't our former Vice President shoot someone with birdshot who appologized to said Vice President later for being shot by him?
    Yes, he was shot at about 30 yards. I was referring to fifteen FEET.

    This is from a page that did ballistic gelatin testing on #8 shot.

    Gelatin Testing: #8 Birdshot Statistics
    • Range: 3 yards Shotgun: 18 inch barreled Remington 870 Marine Magnumn Round: 12 gauge 2¾ Remington Heavy Dove 1-1/8 oz #8 Birdshot Gelatin: 9'x9'x19' 10% ordinance gelatin block Measured Average Permenant Cavity Penetration: 4.5 inches (11.4 cm) Temporary Stretch Cavity: 1.0 to 3 inches (2.5 to 7.6 cm) Calibration BB Velocity: 623 fps
    • Calibration BB Penetration: 12.5 cm
    While this may not immediately kill someone with the lack of complete body penetration, it certainly will #$%@ someone's day up, and if they take the shot to the face, it will be even worse. And at 8 yards or less, I don't care if it's dark, I'm surgical with that scattergun. Not to mention it's a much safer to shoot inside of a townhouse, which was my initial point anyway.

    How bad would it feel to have part of your 00 buckshot pattern miss the intruder and go through a wall and kill your neighbor/spouse/child? Pretty awful.


  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Leesburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    Sounds good!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Va, ,
    Posts
    623

    Post imported post

    I've got some of the Federal Tactical 12 ga loads I purchased at a GS. It is lower velocity and is not supposed to penetrate walls as easily. It was originally developed for the FBI as an entry round.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RVA, ,
    Posts
    279

    Post imported post

    Wound profiles of various 12 ga loads in ballistic gelatin and some good analysis.

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...7&t=109958

    The best all-around loads for HD seem to be #4 buck or frangible slugs. YMMV

  19. #19
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    essayons wrote:
    Wound profiles of various 12 ga loads in ballistic gelatin and some good analysis.

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...7&t=109958

    The best all-around loads for HD seem to be #4 buck or frangible slugs. YMMV
    I agree, #4 buckshot does a very good job. Quite a few more pellets in the pattern than 00, and still a lot of power.

    Brenneke sure does make some bad @$$ slugs.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Not to degrade this thread even more... in the first CHP class I took (not from ProShooter), the instructor started off the class by saying essentially:
    There is no better home defense weapon than a short barrel pump action 12 gauge shotgun. I don't care if you speak English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Martian, or don't speak anything at all, nothing says "GO AWAY" more convincingly than hearing that shell being racked from somewhere over there in the dark.


    Obviously there is room for discussion, but his point was well made.

    TFred

  21. #21
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    Not to degrade this thread even more... in the first CHP class I took (not from ProShooter), the instructor started off the class by saying essentially:
    There is no better home defense weapon than a short barrel pump action 12 gauge shotgun. I don't care if you speak English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Martian, or don't speak anything at all, nothing says "GO AWAY" more convincingly than hearing that shell being racked from somewhere over there in the dark.


    Obviously there is room for discussion, but his point was well made.

    TFred
    That's one of the dumbest things I hear people say, especially to people new to guns. Then they think racking the slide will just scare away the bad guy and they do not develop a mindset that they may have to shoot someone.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Newport News, VA
    Posts
    72

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    Crash7795 wrote:
    Our dad played around a few years back with #8 shot & #6 shotout of a rifled slug barrel. Turns out that at 10 feet, the pattern is about3-5 feet wide depending on the strength of the load. If you're concerned about small patterns out of a shotgun at short distance and still maintaining energy behind the pellets, go try this somewhere. It'll blow your mind.
    Interesting. I have never read about this, shooting shot out of a rifled barrel. It makes sense though, if you get the wad to spinning, it certainly stands to reason that the shot will spread out more once it leaves the gun.
    The Box O Truth just recently did a write-up on this:

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot43.htm
    "Rule 1: All Guns Are Always Loaded" - Jeff Cooper
    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  23. #23
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    ...nothing says "GO AWAY" more convincingly than hearing that shell being racked from somewhere over there in the dark.
    That's one of the dumbest things I hear people say, especially to people new to guns. Then they think racking the slide will just scare away the bad guy and they do not develop a mindset that they may have to shoot someone.
    It's just another tool. A shotgun being racked will scare some people away. Good for both of us. The fools (well, the bigger fools) that don't react appropriately may have to be shot to protect the law-abiding.

    ~ Boyd

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    I'm very new to shotguns - can someone fill me in on buckshot vs birdshot? Is #8 always a birdshot and #4 a buckshot? Then what is #6? Or is there #4 and #6 and #8 for both birdshot and buckshot?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    Chaingun81 wrote:
    I'm very new to shotguns - can someone fill me in on buckshot vs birdshot? Is #8 always a birdshot and #4 a buckshot? Then what is #6? Or is there #4 and #6 and #8 for both birdshot and buckshot?
    http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/....php?p=3154981

    check out the chart at the bottom of the page, should clarify things a bit.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •