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Thread: Guy pissed off because I am OCing.

  1. #1
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    Kind of funny the way this turned out, but I wonder if this is the kind of people that call the law to report a MWAG.

    I walk into a friends shop and this guy notices that I am carrying and the first thing he asks is who do I work for. Isay "I am self employed...Why?" He then says in a bullyish authoritive manner "You know you cannot carry like that, right?"

    I just shrug my shoulders and say "why not?" thinking I may benear a school or something but remembering I am on private propertyand about the same time noticing he is wearing a VFD shirt. He says "Because inAL it is illegal. You have an AL CCpermit right?"

    I say"You are wrong and no! I do not have an AL CCpermit and I have been carrying like this for almost a year and have been seen by MPD, MCSO and justrecently AL Marine PD with no problems." I did not and was not going to tell him that I am from MS and have a MS permit...I figuredit is none of his business.

    Anyway, I told him that he needs to check the law. He said "I know the law, I used to be with the FBI! What you are doing is illegal and apparently those guys didn't know!"

    Around this time I new I was dealing with an idiot becausefor one the guy was fairly young, fairly overweight and is fitting perfectly the description of not only a cop wannabe but a security guard wannabe...Definately not an X-FBI agent. So I look at him and say "whatever dude!" and go on about my business...He left my friends shop a few minutes later.

    Now as it turned out,from what I understand from another guy at the shop that new him, this guy has washed out from everylaw enforcementjob hehas tried to getbut is the type thathas the authoritive craving so bad that he is willing to do anything to satisfy that craving...I guarentee you if this would have happened at someplace like Walmart, I would've had a MWAG call put out on me by this guy calling 911.

    Another friend who witnessed part of the confrontation and conversationtold me thatthis guyprobably has been told that HE cannot carry and may have been rejected a permitbecause of his 'mental' state. If I were a sherrif, this is the kind of person I would refuse to give a permit to (if I had that power).

    Makes me wonder if this is the type that impersonates officers just so they can pull pretty women over...Like what was happening over near Pensacola a few months ago.

    Anyway...Carry-on

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    OK, so this idiot may have worked for Farm Bureau Insurance (FBI)and in his spare time worksfor a Volunteer Fire Department (VFD) and/or he works for VFD which creates software for Volunteer Fire Departments.

    Either way, forget this even happened--it's not worth the train of thought. Eventually, all who OC will run into a POS like this no matter where you reside in the U.S.

  3. #3
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    I detest posers. Those who 'pretend' to be something they're not and never have been or will be. That goes for wanna-be LEO's, military, Federal Agents, corporate big-shots, Hollywood models... gangsta's or whatever. Today they were 'with the FBI...' tomorrow it's the CIA... NSA... ATF... LS/MFT. Iremind the anti'sthe AZConstitution these days; recite it even. 'Don't have much of that kind'a nonsense here... fortunately. VFD t-shirt... Vol Fire Dept? Yeah... that's another group that attracts strange people. Volly's... I've had encounters with a couple... one from Patchougue NY. OMG! That one belonged in a mental ward. Another 'bout got himself shot (by me) posin' as a cop in Baltimore County, MD. Both of 'em... had 'visions' or somethin'... Bizarre!

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    You handled yourself well as always, I probably would've handed him my phone and told him to tell "them" that i was OCing, and that he was a "former" fbi agent to see how it would've been handled by the LEO's when they got there

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    Thanks for the compliment. This is the first 'anti' confrontation I've had.

    Again just like the marine police posting, I was a passenger and wanted to diffuse the situation asap, but I wasn't going to back down either, I figured the best thing to do was just walk away.

    I wish Id've had one of the printouts from AL Gun Right Assn, but I doubt even that would've done any good.

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    If you have a permit that is recognized in AL you don't need to worry about carrying in schools.

    Alabama law only prohibits carrying a handgun on a K-12 school 'with intent to do bodily harm'. If you have a pistol permit you are exempt from 'intent to do bodily harm'. (13A-11-72) Now, federal law does prohibit carrying a firearm on a K-12 school, but has an exemption for those with a state permit.

    Also, even if you don't have a permit, you actually have to be on the school grounds to be violating the law. There isn't some BS '1000 foot' perimeter or anything.

    There is no law against carrying on a non-K-12 school, however, so Universities and such are fine.

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    Thanks Kurt, I have a hard time keeping the MS, AL, TX & LA laws completely seperate and just figured I would err on the safe side anytime I couldn't remember the exact law for the state I'm in.

    I'm also glad the shop owner is verypro 2a, to the point that he knew I was legal.

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    Mississippian wrote:
    Kind of funny the way this turned out, but I wonder if this is the kind of people that call the law to report a MWAG.

    I walk into a friends shop and this guy notices that I am carrying and the first thing he asks is who do I work for. Isay "I am self employed...Why?" He then says in a bullyish authoritive manner "You know you cannot carry like that, right?"

    I just shrug my shoulders and say "why not?" thinking I may benear a school or something but remembering I am on private propertyand about the same time noticing he is wearing a VFD shirt. He says "Because inAL it is illegal. You have an AL CCpermit right?"

    I say"You are wrong and no! I do not have an AL CCpermit and I have been carrying like this for almost a year and have been seen by MPD, MCSO and justrecently AL Marine PD with no problems." I did not and was not going to tell him that I am from MS and have a MS permit...I figuredit is none of his business.

    Anyway, I told him that he needs to check the law. He said "I know the law, I used to be with the FBI! What you are doing is illegal and apparently those guys didn't know!"

    Around this time I new I was dealing with an idiot becausefor one the guy was fairly young, fairly overweight and is fitting perfectly the description of not only a cop wannabe but a security guard wannabe...Definately not an X-FBI agent. So I look at him and say "whatever dude!" and go on about my business...He left my friends shop a few minutes later.

    Now as it turned out,from what I understand from another guy at the shop that new him, this guy has washed out from everylaw enforcementjob hehas tried to getbut is the type thathas the authoritive craving so bad that he is willing to do anything to satisfy that craving...I guarentee you if this would have happened at someplace like Walmart, I would've had a MWAG call put out on me by this guy calling 911.

    Another friend who witnessed part of the confrontation and conversationtold me thatthis guyprobably has been told that HE cannot carry and may have been rejected a permitbecause of his 'mental' state. If I were a sherrif, this is the kind of person I would refuse to give a permit to (if I had that power).

    Makes me wonder if this is the type that impersonates officers just so they can pull pretty women over...Like what was happening over near Pensacola a few months ago.

    Anyway...Carry-on
    It's best not to argue with idiots, and create a scene. If you know you are within the law, and you are not being detained by LEO, or asked by the property owner/management to leave, I would say "Sir, what I am doing is legal. Stop harassing me, or I will call the police and file harassment charges against you.". Go about your business and ignore him, or call the police to report harassment.

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    Except if a property owner asks you to leave. That's not harassment!

    Neither is someone arguing with you. (CoA 13A-11-8)

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    Except if a property owner asks you to leave. That's not harassment!

    Neither is someone arguing with you. (CoA 13A-11-8)
    In Kentucky, the criteria for harassment is defined by statute. I don't know if this is the case for Alabama.

    I can say, at least in Kentucky, if you are not engaged in an ongoing argument with someone, and they follow you around the store yelling at you, that's harassment. I don't think there is anything wrong with a one line response that says "I'm legal, leave me alone.".

    As long as you don't continue to respond and argue, your silence shows you do not consent to the encounter.

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    I didn't feel like I was being harrassed, when I made the "Whatever dude!" remark and walked away, the argument ended...Actually, I should call it a discussion...And even then it was rather short.

    Kurt, it seems that many on here (the whole forum, not just AL.) do not understand that a store/shop owner/manager has the right to ask us to leave, dis-armor cover up. I am amazed every time I read about someone arguing with a shop owner/manager, even if the manager is not the owner andis wrong, the time to argue is later and with corporate (or the owner), not when you are OCing in the managersstore/shop.

    I have gone over many times what I will do if I am ever asked to leave by someone who is going against their employerscorporate policy (eg - Walmart) I will try to get the persons name and titleand then do whatever the person asks (cover or leave, I will not dis-arm) and then after I am gone, I will take the issue up with the owner.

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    Awesome Mississippian, don't worry about, by happy.

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    Well. Technically, only the owner or agent of owner can ask you to leave. But a manager could technically have agency, and even delegate certain powers to other employees.

    Really, there is no way to know if someone is an agent of the property owner or not, so the best choice is just to leave.

  14. #14
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    yeah, just leave, and never go back to there store again, hopefully they really needed your business and they'll go out of business,lol, that's for them being such jerk offs.

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    Mississippian wrote:
    Around this time I new I was dealing with an idiot .... So I look at him and say "whatever dude!" and go on about my business...He left my friends shop a few minutes later.
    Well done.




    Mississippian wrote:
    Makes me wonder if this is the type that impersonates officers just so they can pull pretty women over...Like what was happening over near Pensacola a few months ago.
    Badly done.

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    HankT wrote:
    Mississippian wrote:
    Around this time I new I was dealing with an idiot .... So I look at him and say "whatever dude!" and go on about my business...He left my friends shop a few minutes later.
    Well done.




    Mississippian wrote:
    Makes me wonder if this is the type that impersonates officers just so they can pull pretty women over...Like what was happening over near Pensacola a few months ago.
    Badly done.
    I Don't know Hank T, I don't see anything badly done with Mississpian just wondering.

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    Hey Kurt, I had a question if you don't mind, you seem to be the most well versed in the law and I wasn't sure where to look!

    If I have an interaction with a police officer, a nice, friendly interaction say, but he wants to remove my gun from its holster, for his own safety, does he have the right to do that? I would much prefer to tell him if it makes him uncomfortable, that we can go to my vehicle and I'll remove it there if it has to be removed. But I am not comfortable at all with him removing the weapon from my holster and unloading it. I have no idea that he is capable of doing that safely, or understands my specific weapon.

    Just wondering if you had some insights on that, and if there is a law that allows a LEO to do that for officer safety or some such thing. Any help is greatly appreciated!

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    Check CoA 15-5-31:

    Search for dangerous weapon; procedure if weapon or other thing found.

    When a sheriff or other officer acting as sheriff, his deputy or any constable, acting within their respective counties, any marshal, deputy marshal or policeman of any incorporated city or town within the limits of the county or any highway patrolman or state trooper has stopped a person for questioning pursuant to this article and reasonably suspects that he is in danger of life or limb, he may search such person for a dangerous weapon. If such officer finds such a weapon or any other thing, the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall either return it, if lawfully possessed, or arrest such person.
    Check 15-5-30 for the type of stop. Essentially this would be a 'Terry' stop. The cop needs RAC(reasonable articulable suspicion) that you committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime.

    So yes, in that kind of stop he can disarm you for the duration of questioning. It does not, however, allow them to keep your firearm (or any other item) if you aren't arrested then and there. So no 'take it back to HQ' BS.

    The main problem, however, is that you don't know if an officer has stopped you with real RAC or if they are just talking to you. They don't have to tell you, and you can get in trouble if you don't comply and they DO have RAC.

    The only real way to find out if they had RAC is if you go to court...

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    I gotcha... so since he also has to reasonably suspect he is in danger of life or limb... he's definitely blowing smoke if he pretends like he thinks I'm going to shoot him while we're having a friendly conversation. BUT he can say he was scared and I can't do anything about it. Sounds like my hands would be pretty tied on that one.

    I very much appreciate the help and guess I'll just hope they leave me alone! And then comply when I have to...

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    It's never come up, but I've always figured I would suggest that I unbuckle my belt and allow him to take holster and all. We're all safer as long as all weapons stay in their respective homes.

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    There is no law against carrying on a non-K-12 school, however, so Universities and such are fine.
    unless of course, they have campus rules against it like southern union (grr). On orientation day they told us basically (using more words than I am) that if we have a any weapons guns, knives, etc. that we will be expelled and there's nothing we can do about it ( no appeal, nuthin').

    how the hell am I supposed to defend myself? with a condom?

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    Theguy wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    There is no law against carrying on a non-K-12 school, however, so Universities and such are fine.
    unless of course, they have campus rules against it like southern union (grr). On orientation day they told us basically (using more words than I am) that if we have a any weapons guns, knives, etc. that we will be expelled and there's nothing we can do about it ( no appeal, nuthin').

    how the hell am I supposed to defend myself? with a condom?
    I like your comment, Theguy, I don't really know the answer to your question about defending yourself, and the condom joke. However, what I would do, is not attend a University that doesn't allow me to carry in one form or fashion. There's not many out there that allow us to carry any weapons on campus, I suggest that those schools are not worth your time, nor money. Don't give them that right, they just lose money from you when you don't attend there college, they just lose the chance to have a great caring student who cares about people and personal safety and the safety of others. I don't go to college and I should, cause I have the GI bill available to me, I should use it, I put my time in for our country, at home here in the U.S. and in the Iraq war. So I believe I deserve it, I just haven't found anything I'm really passionate about except our rights. So where would I go for that, politics, I think not, everyone says most politicians had good intentions before they got into office and then that changed, so I don't wanna be in that place either.

    If I were you and going to college, I would simply go to school online, or either search out the schools that honor our 2ND amendment, other then that, I wouldn't attend there school, for the mere fact that they really don't care about a student's opinion or rights at heart, that's a good enough reason not to attend a college in my book. If one right is honored in a college, then all rights should be honored that are our rights by the U.S. constitution. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure Iwould have alot that disagree with me on this, but I won't expect in from anyone on this site, since we are all on the same sheet of music.

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    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    Theguy wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    There is no law against carrying on a non-K-12 school, however, so Universities and such are fine.
    unless of course, they have campus rules against it like southern union (grr). On orientation day they told us basically (using more words than I am) that if we have a any weapons guns, knives, etc. that we will be expelled and there's nothing we can do about it ( no appeal, nuthin').

    how the hell am I supposed to defend myself? with a condom?
    I like your comment, Theguy, I don't really know the answer to your question about defending yourself, and the condom joke. However, what I would do, is not attend a University that doesn't allow me to carry in one form or fashion. There's not many out there that allow us to carry any weapons on campus, I suggest that those schools are not worth your time, nor money. Don't give them that right, they just lose money from you when you don't attend there college, they just lose the chance to have a great caring student who cares about people and personal safety and the safety of others.


    I wish I had that option however I don't, southern union is all I can afford, I got the Pell Grant, and it wasn't enough (needed another $20) that extra was the limit of my tuition budget (at least for the time being) the rest having to go for books

    I don't go to college and I should, cause I have the GI bill available to me, I should use it, I put my time in for our country, at home here in the U.S. and in the Iraq war.
    let me just break in here for a second and tell you how much I appreciate that: I appreciate that.

    So I believe I deserve it, I just haven't found anything I'm really passionate about except our rights. So where would I go for that, politics, I think not, everyone says most politicians had good intentions before they got into office and then that changed, so I don't wanna be in that place either.

    If I were you and going to college, I would simply go to school online, or either search out the schools that honor our 2ND amendment, other then that, I wouldn't attend there school, for the mere fact that they really don't care about a student's opinion or rights at heart, that's a good enough reason not to attend a college in my book. If one right is honored in a college, then all rights should be honored that are our rights by the U.S. constitution. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure Iwould have alot that disagree with me on this, but I won't expect in from anyone on this site, since we are all on the same sheet of music.
    I would do online college if not for one thing; I was homeschooled, and a few years ago all my friends moved away, the only people I've had to talk to for the past 4 years that didn't look at me quizzically and say "meow" were family members.


    I am really sick of that.

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    Well Thankyou, Theguy, for your thanks for my service, I don't expect it, as you probably already no, none of use that served our country expect it, but we highly appreciate it, and it sends tears to my eyes and heart to know that people still care for those that have served, thanks again.

    I know your problem with the home school scenario, I myself was home school the last year of HS. I didn't let that stand in my way, I still pursued college in my hometown of Mobile Al. I found Bishop State to be a college that was willing to work with me and my brother. As far as a know, I think they have course you can take online also, my brother goes there, he is in the auto body program there, he uses his GI Bill and the Pell grant. I know money is a issue when it comes to college, or for that matter anything. But you can't let them get to you about your personal safety. My brother has already given up on the issue, he carries a pocket knife, that's it, better then nothing I suppose, but I refuse to give in, but I have that choice, I don't have to give in, thankfully. If I did have to give in , I would fight the board all the way to court if I had to. But, I'm a very passionate person about our rights, hence the name Mr. Advocate, I'm the one you call to fight for your rights.

    Sincerely Mr. Advocate



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    I was homeschooled as well. TBH I preferred it over uni. 99% of the people you meet will be absolutely mind-numbingly boring & you don't get to control your own schedule. I would have taken online courses if it were possible for my degree (and they didn't have the stigma of a bad school).

    Auburn University doesn't restrict all weapons. Folding knives are allowed. I actually need one for my job on campus to cut open boxes :P

    I actually hate folders, and prefer fixed knives, but that would violate campus rules and also I'd probably have to carry it unconcealed (no combat knives can be carried concealed in Alabama, even with a pistol permit).

    Just as a note though, I know nobody wants to risk their education over it, but carrying a very concealed firearm on campus wouldn't be dangerous. The police have no legal pretext to search you, even if somebody says you have a firearm (it's not illegal to carry on campus remember), so about the only way to get made would be to inadvertantly unconceal the firearm.

    I know a few people that were caught with firearms in dorms or carrying them. They haven't been expelled. But Auburn is different than SU.

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