CCW Holder Shoots Person In Next Stall

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I am with everyone else on this it dosent matter what kind of gun it is,it could be a glock with a hairline trigger,if it is not properly holsterd with a good holster and on a good pants/or gunbelt then its just neglegant.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

Another good reason for OC and gunbelts.

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Also, another good reason for Condition Three carry, CC or OC.



Sonora Rebel wrote:

Everybody's assuming the claim that the 'gun dropped' is truthful. What if it was a ND? Booger picker on the bang switch whie takin' it out of the holster? Whole different liability issue.

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Excellent point. There is GREATmotivation for the woman to lie in an attempt to evade consequences of her failure to safely handle a lethal weapon.

One thing for sure, though. We know she is a goof with a gun.

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Here is an idea. Anyone ever practice drawing while seated on the john with pants around ankles? You gotta think the threat of defending yourself could manifest even in this situation.

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Walkeraviator wrote:

Anyone ever practice drawing while seated on the john with pants around ankles?You gotta think the threat of defending yourself could manifest even in this situation.

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A crap shoot?

Could happen.

Absolutely....

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

Everybody's assuming the claim that the 'gun dropped' is truthful.  What if it was a ND?  Booger picker on the bang switch whie takin' it out of the holster?  Whole different liability issue. Holstered guns on belts are rather awkward when 'loose'. I'm already wonderin' if it was a Glock.

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That's what I'd guess. Firearms don't just 'accidentally' go off. Especially not when dropped.

And why all the Glock hate whenever there is a ND?

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

That's what I'd guess. Firearms don't just 'accidentally' go off. Especially not when dropped.

And why all the Glock hate whenever there is a ND?


People w/Glocks seem predisposed to doing that frequently. It's my opinion that the Glock (being a Euro pistol) was never intended to be carried with a round in the tube.

Euro's don't have the 'Quick-Draw McGraw' mindset. The round ischambered upon drawing the weapon. 'Had a conversation with a couple of Swiss touristsalong those lines awhile back about that sort'a thing. (Yeah... word gets around...)

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HankT wrote:

A crap shoot?

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LMAO! :lol:

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I think it has more to do with probability. The reason that most of the time you hear these stories involving Glocks is because they probably out number all other firearms being carried combined. When you have an assload out there, they have a greater probability of being involved in a news worthy event. Its not because they inherently unsafe.

And only those who really believes a Glock was purposefully designed to be carried without one in the tube? C'Mon. Cops cary like this all the time.I hate Glocks based onthe "Brotha" factor, but as safe firearms, they are just as safe as any other gun you respect.

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Hey wait a minute I used the example of the glock because if you dont put your finger in the the trigger guard then it dosent go bang.And since it dosent have a saftey other than the trigger pull then with good finger placement and a good holster your freaking awesome and wont accidently kill anyone.So the question is what really happend,and for the record Glocks are awesome bravo tango whiskey.........

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The story doesn't sound kosher....

But again, this brings out the 'do you have a clue how your gun works' and the 'maybe stupid people shouldn't carry' and the 'OC, this wouldn't have happened.'

CC requires slim and small designs that often do not include positive retention. I've never found any CC holster that I could use and NOT PRINT that has any retention at all. I almost landed my Lllama Micro Max IN the toilet on more than one occasion. I quickly learned to ALWAYS remove the weapon when I have to go #2. This equates to handling the firearm every time I have to go... Not a topic a lot of people really want to talk about, but it is what it is; forced weapon handling. Even when you just stand at a urinal and unzip, a heavy piece at 6 O'Clock will drop itself, and your pants, to the floor if you aren't prepared and really making an effort.

I switched to a Kel-Tec P32 pocket gun for CC. But it is not quickly accessible. In a pocket, buttoned shut, in a leather pocket holster that is tight and tough to remove the weapon from. It won't pants you, but if you need it fast, well, too bad. Almost defeats the whole point of having it...

Besides, always having to go untucked, with baggy/loose clothing, to prevent printing, means if I want to CC (other than the near-useless pocket gun), I have to dress sloppy. A pocket gun, with wallet holster so it doesn't print, is just barely better than nothing.

CC is dumb and dangerous. But it keeps the conversation to a minimum, and that's what Liberals like; one-sided agendas where only bad things caused by the very limitation they created can ever be discussed.

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Hey, there is no reason to attack those who believe in CC. Calling us dumb because we like tactical advantage is about as mature as electing Obama to office...wait... you didnt vote for him did you?

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Walkeraviator wrote:

Hey, there is no reason to attack those who believe in CC. Calling us dumb because we like tactical advantage is about as mature as electing Obama to office...wait... you didnt vote for him did you?

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I didn't call you dumb. I called CC dumb. I do it too, because I have no choice. It is still dumb.

Exactly what kind of 'tactical advantage' is CC? No, I'll head you off at the pass.... 'The element of surprise' is only useful for those on the offensive. Guerillas, Ambushes, etc. If you want to prevent crime, you cannot do it with a gun that no one can see. If it isn't visible, it isn't being thought of. BGs know that the number of people carrying are so small, that it is a statistical non-issue for them. They also operate almost exclusively in gun-free zones, where you, the Good Guy, did not bring your gun anyway. Once in a blue moon, it becomes useful. But only AFTER someone is victimized. By the very nature of what CC is, it can never do any more good than that.

And I repeat, I do it too... But not by choice.

And even though it doesn't really deserve a response, no. I'd vote for my left ass cheek before I would vote for blowbama.

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I choose to CC becasue i believe that if a bad guy sees you packin and is determined to do harm, he simply takes you by surprise. You see nothing, you hear nothing, all you feel is the pressure of his bullet into the back of your head. I like the advantage of nobody knowing i am carrying.

And I appologize for the Obama remark...

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Walkeraviator wrote:

I choose to CC becasue i believe that if a bad guy sees you packin and is determined to do harm, he simply takes you by surprise. You see nothing, you hear nothing, all you feel is the pressure of his bullet into the back of your head. I like the advantage of nobody knowing i am carrying.

And I appologize for the Obama remark...

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I've seen this remark made many times, yet never seen any evidence to support it.

I used to say the same thing when I first got my CC Permit.

There has, as of yet, not been even one example of someone OCing, that was targeted in the manner described. but plenty of people who OC have simply allowed their weapon to be seen and watched the roaches scurry away without the need to draw or fire.

CC creates a circumstance that the only time the weapon is seen, is when it is too late, the s*** has already hit the fan. There was no opportunity to prevent. No matter what the outcome, it is always a dollar short and a day late compared to the relative simplicity and peacefulness of OC.

I'd still say it's better than nothing, but I think OC is the far superior choice for a peaceful society with fewer reasons to pull the trigger. If it makes a person a 'target,' hypothetically, well, I'll gladly take that chance to fulfil civic duty. So far, it hasn't proven to be any risk at all.

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Walkeraviator wrote:

Hey, there is no reason to attack those who believe in CC. Calling us dumb because we like tactical advantage is about as mature as electing Obama to office...wait... you didnt vote for him did you?

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Tactical advantage? Do you often dynamically enter your house while 'going loud'? :lol:

CC is perfectly fine, but I am amused at the extents some people will go to carry concealed. Tiny little handguns that ravage your hands while you fire them with two fingers? Stowing them away in obscure locations that practically require removal of pants to access? Underwear holsters??!!!

I know some people must CC because their state doesn't allow OC. Here in Alabama CC is considered offensive, so it is not protected like OC is since our constitution only protects the right to carry firearms defensively.

I carry a G19 in a Comp-Tac holster at 3oc when I CC, and it doesn't print. I wear a t-shirt though so maybe I'm a 'slob'!

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I wear khaki shorts in summer and jeans in winter, but mostly wwear either polos or buttondown shirts untucked. I know I am one of those whipper snappers that doesnt like tuckin in my shirt. I carry an M&P 40c in an MTAC holster. It doesnt print, its comfy all day, and the gun is accurate and comfortable enough for a day at the range. I have practiced my draw til it is smooth as butter. So in my opinion, I sacrificed nothing to carry concealed as I didnt change my wardraobe with teh exception of a gun belt instead of my older belts.

To be honest the only reason I dont Open Carry is that this is the only handgun Iown at the time, and open carrying a compact looks funny.

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Walkeraviator wrote:

To be honest the only reason I dont Open Carry is that this is the only handgun Iown at the time, and open carrying a compact looks funny.

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I think I'll refinish and OC a Desert Eagle in Pink Duracoat, just because you said that.

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I spend far more time CCing than OCing for one primary reason:

I spend more time at work than anywhere else.

My coworkers are gun-friendly, but our clients may or may not be, especially when I am in their place of business.

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ixtow wrote:

CC requires slim and small designs that often do not include positive retention. I've never found any CC holster that I could use and NOT PRINT that has any retention at all. I almost landed my Lllama Micro Max IN the toilet on more than one occasion. I quickly learned to ALWAYS remove the weapon when I have to go #2. This equates to handling the firearm every time I have to go... Not a topic a lot of people really want to talk about, but it is what it is; forced weapon handling. Even when you just stand at a urinal and unzip, a heavy piece at 6 O'Clock will drop itself, and your pants, to the floor if you aren't prepared and really making an effort.

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CC does not require a small slim design, slim lines do conceal better, but I can easily CC a 5” 1911 with the proper holster, a CC holster should keep the butt tight to your side, and not allow the holster/pistol to move at all with reasonably active movement. In short a CC holster that flops around or does not keep the butt tight to the body should be replaced. Nylon holsters are terrible in this regard; I don’t use them at all.

Enough about CC on to the OC part.

The holster belt combination must work in concert or one of the parts will not work. I carry in a Mitch Rosen IWB without retention strap or gizmo, when the pistol is inserted it pops in. You can turn the holster pistol upside down and try to pop it out through inertia, but it will not drop out. I am a firm believer that the holster shall carry the pistol without gun handling for all daily routine activities. Including going to the john, with the proper holster there is no reason to remove the firearm.

A vertically stiff belt is an absolute requirement for supporting the holster/pistol. I have used Wilderness 1.5” 5 stitch, Bianchi leather, and the current 1.5” double layer Rosen. The Rosen is by far the stiffest, most vertically stable belt I have used in 30 odd years of carrying. It will support the holster/pistol when pants are unbuckled if you use just a little support to the holster. The belt will not try to unthread from the pants loop either. I have not yet had the pistol turn upside down with the Rosen. The Wilderness works almost as well, but holsters will slide around on the nylon of the Wilderness and the wilderness does not fill the slots of most holsters as tightly as a heavy leather belt. Nylon belts are not as stiff as a heavy leather belt when unbuckled. One other requirement, use the same width belt as the slots on the holster, which will cure many ills quickly.

I have found that a premium leather holster and belt combination makes the best carry platform; leather on leather fills the belt slots completely, and locks the pistol in place.



Just a few thoughts, your mileage may vary.

Steve

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ixtow wrote:

CC is dumb and dangerous.  But it keeps the conversation to a minimum, and that's what Liberals like; one-sided agendas where only bad things caused by the very limitation they created can ever be discussed.

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Spoken like a true suthn'r.........

Holy effn crap. Are you saying I'm supposed to strap my gun belt and gun OUTSIDE my parka so I'm smart and safe? And to make a point that OC is the ONLY way to go? So that I have to take the 'ol gunbelt and gun off every single time I go inside?

Well..that is certainly a "safe" practice.

It effn RAINs up here, not to mention snow and bloody cold weather. The majority of the year it doesn't make sense to OC up here. But I guess that's a good thing because I just found out I look funny OC'ing a compact .45 :what:

Now....I apologize for bustin' your balls over your opinion. I just happen to disagree.

Cheers,
Bill