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Thread: More VPC Rhetoric

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    Back in the days of the assault weapons ban, I joined the mailing list for updates not knowing what the VPC was. Today I get this e-mail and don't know what to make of it. Of course you have the obvious VPC stuff....

    I haven't heard about this.. But us Wisconsinites have no CCW. Would this bill make our wonderful state to be forced to allow CCW or am I missing something?

    Here it is in all of its glory.....



    To Violence Policy Center Action Network Members:

    We need your help to stop dangerous legislation now pending in the U.S. Senate that would force our communities to permit dangerous individuals from other states to carry loaded, hidden handguns in public. We need you to call your two U.S. Senators right away and tell them to oppose this measure.

    States currently have the authority to make their own rules about who can carry a concealed weapon (CCW). But the gun lobby's friends in Congress want to dramatically undermine each state's authority to determine who can possess handguns by allowing individuals with concealed carry permits issued by virtually any other state to cross state lines with their deadly weapons and carry loaded guns in public--a policy that will also increase gun trafficking, as well as gun deaths and injuries. This proposal is particularly dangerous for states like California that have tough permitting standards.

    o The bill, S. 845, would dramatically increase the number of individuals carrying concealed handguns in public in your state.

    o S. 845 would require states to recognize concealed carry permits that are issued by other states. The practical effect of this change would be to establish the lowest common denominator as the general rule for carrying a concealed handgun. Just how dangerous is this proposal? In 2009, there have already been three MASS shootings by concealed carry permit holders--including the murder of three police officers in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

    ACTION STEP

    Call your two U.S. Senators right away. Call 202-224-3121 and ask to be connected to your Senators' offices.

    Tell your U.S. Senators to vote NO on S. 845, whether it is offered as a stand-alone bill or as an amendment to another bill.

    The U.S. Senate is expected to vote on S. 845 as early as Monday, July 13. We need your help NOW to tell the Senate to stand up and say "NO" to the gun lobby and "NO" to more concealed handguns in our communities.

    Thank you, as always, for your time and energy to help stop gun violence.

    Sincerely,

    Josh Sugarmann
    Executive Director

    ***


    The VPC has been known to raise peoples Blood Pressure. And since I generly do the opposite of what the VPC wants, I'm gonna call that number and tell them "YES"

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    GlocksRfun wrote:
    I haven't heard about this.. But us Wisconsinites have no CCW. Would this bill make our wonderful state be forced to allow CCW or am I missing something?
    Unfortunately not:
    A bill to amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to allow citizens who have concealed carry permits from the State in which they reside to carry concealed firearms in another State that grants concealed carry permits, if the individual complies with the laws of the State.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-845

    But it's good for those of those that want to travel and have a resident permit in a state. They only have to get one permit this way.
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    So that wouldn't even help us in states that only "honor" resident permits, like Michigan?

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    GlocksRfun wrote:
    So that wouldn't even help us in states that only "honor" resident permits, like Michigan?
    I didn't read the whole bill yet, only the summary, but I think you are right.
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    I'm beginning to think that the summary isn't exactly what the bill says and that maybe we can get an out of state permit and be good in the other permitting states according to the full text of the bill. We are still screwed in WI however.

    S 845 IS



    To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to allow citizens who have concealed carry permits from the State in which they reside to carry concealed firearms in another State that grants concealed carry permits, if the individual complies with the laws of the State.


    IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES



    April 21, 2009


    Mr. THUNE (for himself, Mr. BARRASSO, Mr. BEGICH, Mr. BENNETT, Mr. BROWNBACK, Mr. BURR, Mr. CHAMBLISS, Mr. COBURN, Mr. COCHRAN, Mr. CRAPO, Mr. DEMINT, Mr. ENSIGN, Mr. ENZI, Mr. GRAHAM, Mr. GRASSLEY, Mr. HATCH, Mr. INHOFE, Mr. ISAKSON, Mr. MARTINEZ, Mr. RISCH, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. VITTER, and Mr. WICKER) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

    [line]


    To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to allow citizens who have concealed carry permits from the State in which they reside to carry concealed firearms in another State that grants concealed carry permits, if the individual complies with the laws of the State.



    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

    This Act may be cited as the ‘Respecting States Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2009’.



    SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

    (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:



    ‘Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms



    ‘Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof:



    ‘(1) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or permit in any State that allows its residents to carry concealed firearms, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.



    ‘(2) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is otherwise than as described in paragraph (1) entitled to carry a concealed firearm in and pursuant to the law of the State in which the person resides, may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with the laws of the State in which the person resides in any State that allows its residents to carry concealed firearms, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.’.



    (b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for chapter 44 of title 18 is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:



    ‘926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.’.

    IN any case, it looks like good legislation and a few calls to representatives may be in order.
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    Pointman wrote:
    Given the number of Republicans in office this has probably died in committee. Because Wisconsin denies our right to lawfully conceal a sidearm, it would not apply to us when out of state or to anyone visiting our state.

    Did you read the bill Pointman? I thought this at first too but now that I went beyond the summary it doesn't appear that it would exclude us from carrying in all the other states that allow it with; say, a MN permit.



    ‘(1) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or permit in any State that allows its residents to carry concealed firearms, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.


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    That reads awfully similar to the laws in Michigan, according to what I got out of MI statutes, "if you are legal to carry concelaed in your home state, then you are legal to carry in MI"

    My only problem with MI's laws, even though they are a state that allows both concealed, andopen-carry, you must either be a resident of MI, or have a concealed carry permit from your home state to legally carry there.
    This does not allow residents of WI, VT, IL,or AK to possess a firearm in MI because those states do not have or offer any"Permits" for someone to carry. I have picked apart the MI statutes and I cannot ind any specific law prohibiting a non-resident from O-C'ing there, but the general consensus is that without having a resident permit, your going to get arrested and charged. I am not willing to be the test case for that challenge.

    Now if this bill would force the state of WI and IL to allow out of state permit holders to carry concealed in those states that do not allow concealed carry, I am all or it. Although it would not help us WIresident out at all. But it maygive us a bargaining chip to finally get CCW available to WI residents that would prefer that method of carry.

    Am I making sense, or just rambling?

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    To Violence Policy Center Action Network Members:

    TOMORROW, WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, the U.S. Senate is scheduled to vote on an amendment sponsored by South Dakota Senator John Thune to the defense reathorization bill (S. 1390) that would force our communities to allow dangerous individuals from other states to carry loaded, hidden handguns in public.

    ACTION STEP

    Call your two U.S. Senators today! Call 202-224-3121 and ask to be connected to your Senators' offices.

    Tell your U.S. Senators to vote NO on the Thune gun amendment.


    A new VPC study (http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf) released yesterday and cited in a New York Times editorial (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/opinion/21tue2.html?_r=1&ref=opinion) today shows that in a recent two-year period in only 31 incidents, concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven law enforcement officers and 44 private citizens. These incidents include five mass shootings resulting in the deaths of 23 victims. Because of the secretive nature of state concealed carry systems, the VPC was forced to rely on news clippings for its research. The actual number of unjustified killings by concealed handgun permit holders is most likely far, far higher.

    States currently have the authority to make their own rules about who can carry a concealed weapon (CCW). But the gun lobby's friends in Congress want to dramatically undermine each state's authority to determine who can possess handguns by allowing individuals with concealed carry permits issued by virtually any other state to cross state lines with their deadly weapons and carry loaded guns in public--a policy that will also increase gun trafficking, as well as gun deaths and injuries. This proposal is particularly dangerous for states like California that have tough permitting standards.

    o The Thune amendment would dramatically increase the number of individuals carrying concealed handguns in public in your state.

    o The Thune amendment would require states to recognize concealed carry permits that are issued by other states. The practical effect of this change would be to establish the lowest common denominator as the general rule for carrying a concealed handgun.

    Call your senators NOW and tell them to vote NO on the Thune amendment.

    Thank you, as always, for your time and energy to help stop gun violence.

    Sincerely,

    Josh Sugarmann
    Executive Director

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    Pointman wrote:
    MI is probably saying: If you WI folks are too irresponsible to carry guns at home, you'retoo irresponsible to carry them here.
    I think this is way out of context. Michigan is not saying we are irresponsible. It is more that they have enough on their plate handling their own citizens situations. If you have ever observed the court system in Michigan, you would understand just how archaic it really is.
    The federal government constantly wants to give more power to the states, but now they want to take it away.
    I am all for nation wide CCW and OCW, forget the worthless, costly permits.

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    In a way, we are way better off then MI due to their registration requirement.
    but then again, our governor looks down upon us like we are a bunch of mentally-retarded, idiots, &imbecile's that do not have enough brain power to make our own decisions and he (Doyle) feels the government must save us from ourselves.

    In MI, you must register your firearms to legally own and possess them, How many of us would tolerate that practice?

    If all I needed to do was to stop at any MI sheriff's department, and have my firearm "Safety Inspected" such as MI residents needdo to get their CCW, I would do that to be able to O-C while in the U.P.
    Or if MI was to offer a non-resident permitting sytem for CCW (CPL in MI speak) I would apply for that.

    Again, I am not interested in CCW, I just want to exercise my RKBA by using O-C as my carry method.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Again, I am not interested in CCW, I just want to exercise my RKBA by using O-C as my carry method.
    I agree, this whole "I want to carry a gun but I don't want anyone to see me doing it" doesn't make much sense. Either we are strong in our convictions or we are not.

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    I heard the bill was voted down, anyone have any info?

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    The bill failed with a majority voting in favor of passage.
    The vote was 58 in favor, 39 against, 3 not voting

    This bill, if it would have passed would have allowed you guys to carry up here because as it was written stated:

    ‘(1) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or permit in any State that allows its residents to carry concealed firearms, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.



    I am hoping that in our next election ('10) that we can elect a solid pro-gun governor, and a solid pro-gun house and senate. There are so many ridiculous laws in this state as far as firearms are concerned it's crazy. You can't even borrow a handgun from another person unless you posses a CPL. Hanguns need to be registered. All guns need to be in a case, not accessable to the driver (handguns exempt with CPL), and of course the one that affects you guys......Can not posess a handgun in this state unless it is lawfully registered (residents only), or you posses a CPL from your home state.

    One possible exemption, and I'd ask the MI AG on this one.....cap and ball revolvers don't need to be registered. Would someone from a state like WI be able to carry one here?

    Rand Paul 2016

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    Fiengold voted yea to it. Kinda surprised me. Like ^ said, it was defeated. Here's what VPC has to say about it.



    To Violence Policy Center Action Network Members:

    Thank you!

    Earlier today, the U.S. Senate defeated a National Rifle Association-backed measure sponsored by South Dakota Senator John Thune that would have created a nationalized concealed handgun permitting system--and your calls helped make the difference!

    Below, please find the press release issued by the VPC following this important victory.

    Click here to see how your Senators voted:

    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1& amp;vote=00237

    Thank you again for helping make this victory possible.

    Sincerely,

    Josh Sugarmann
    Executive Director


    ***

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Wednesday, July 22, 2009

    Violence Policy Center Statement on Defeat of Thune Amendment Creating National Concealed Handgun System

    Washington, DC--Following today's Senate vote defeating the Thune Amendment, which would have created a nationalized concealed handgun permitting system, the Violence Policy Center issued the following statement by VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand:

    "Today's Senate vote is a victory for those who support a sane national gun policy.

    "Concealed carry permit holders have already killed police officers, murdered innocent citizens, and committed mass shootings.

    "The Thune Amendment would have nullified laws in states such as New York and California that have tough standards for the issuance of concealed handgun permits. Those states would have been forced to allow the carrying of concealed handguns within their borders by people with permits issued by states with the lowest standards, such as Idaho and Florida. The amendment would have also undermined state assault weapons bans because it would have allowed permit holders to carry concealed assault weapons into the seven states that currently ban these guns.

    "The danger of the Thune amendment is demonstrated by the fact that proponents of a nationalized concealed carry system argue that lax concealed handgun laws are the answer to mass shootings, but the hard facts are that concealed handgun permit holders do not prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them."

    Earlier this week, the VPC released a new study (http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf) showing that concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009. Among the study's findings--

    o Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.

    o Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these incidents.

    o In six of the 31 incidents (19 percent), the concealed handgun permit holder killed himself, bringing the total fatality count to 57.

    o Five of the incidents were mass shootings resulting in the deaths of 23 victims.

    ***

    The Violence Policy Center (www.vpc.org) is a national educational organization working to stop gun death and injury.

    --END-


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    Fiengold is trying to save his butt in the next election.

    Both he and Kohl should be given the boot.

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Fiengold is trying to save his butt in the next election.

    Both he and Kohl should be given the boot.
    They should have been given the boot many years ago.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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