View Poll Results: Would you be interested in an open carry "protest" on the Las Vegas Strip?

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  • Yes

    27 75.00%
  • No

    4 11.11%
  • This is gay. Get a CCW dangit!

    0 0%
  • I only OC with an AR-15

    2 5.56%
  • I only OC with an AK-47 and body armor

    3 8.33%
  • Who needs guns?

    0 0%
  • Drunks like you shouldn't have guns!

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Thread: OC Protest on the Las Vegas strip?

  1. #1
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    In my "tourist" thread, some options were presented to me. One was to OC with the natives.

    Perhaps things would be more interesting if a whole bunch of people decided to OC on the strip at the same time.

    I'd like to "arm" everyone with flyers on OC beforehand and have a few local lawyers present to "handle" the cops.

    I mean...what the heck! They yanked Utah's reciprocity...they should feel SOME consequence for it. I would think a bunch of wasted police man hours and a lawsuit or two would do the trick.

    Anyone interested?

  2. #2
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    I'd do memberships to the NRA, open carry brochure and a speaker. Definatley get LVMP involved, as they will help you make sure this is safe enviroment.

    Pace
    http://www.libertypace.com


  3. #3
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I would drive up for that, but would need some advance time to make plans. I think it would be best not to hand out anything unless asked; I think it would make a better statement if we were just walking down the strip minding our own business like everyone else when Metro shows up to harass us, which I guarantee will happen. The half-drunk, heat stroked tourists might miss one or two pistol packing patriots, but certainly not several dozen. There will be more than a few heavily-accented MWAG calls. But it would be a good idea for each person to have a dozen or so pamphlets to hand out to people who approach us which inevitably happens at these things.
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  4. #4
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    Here's the reasoning behind handing out:

    A protest requires a permit, if you are walking the strip as in a parade, they can make a legal objection that you were not walking the strip, you were doing an illegal parade and that was the issue.

    Having 10 people standing around handing out open carry pamplets or perhaps guide who to vote for makes it then free speech.

    We want to make sure they understand, and that the courts understand that the reasoning was to express one's rights, for personal protest, handing out pamplets etc, not to march, block traffic, cause problems.

    The best thing that can happen in my opinion is nothing - LVMPD gets educated, gets used to seeing people on the strip with weapons.

  5. #5
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    Pace,

    What protest permit? Where do you get this and to whom do you apply? We could apply the same logic to the park permit and request a protest permit, citing specifically that we'll be armed.

    My vote is we just take a walk and have pamphlets for anyone who asks. Nothing long (an hour or so), nothing official (no matching t-shirts or anything). Just a group of friends (probably more like several groups, 3-4 each) taking a walk. One of the groups should be unarmed to avoid being stopped in case the police try to round up all of the OCers. Each group with a video camera on standby to record any other groups being harassed.

    With several small groups, there's no chance of us being a "parade" or any other reason to be stopped lawfully.

    If the group would rather hand out pamphlets from several stationery positions I'll do that too.

    Tim

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    I'll find what the regulations are. I know that if you are sitting still, backed off, the courts in nevada (sorry, dont have the refence) have already said its legal. That is why all the hooker fliers are legal now

    Walking down the street in a group is unfortunately differently than standing or walking seperate. Again, I dont have the references but the right of a group is not the same as the right of a individual... long explanation.

    They generally do not issue permits to block the strip, so it wouldnt be denied for gun ownership, but because they dont issue them in general. When is the last time you saw a protest on the strip?

    If you just sit with your guns, and hand out fliers there is the simple arguement that yuo were the expressing your right to free speech and you carry a weapon. You have a purpose of being ont he strip: to hand out fliers. You always carry a weapon.

    Make it simple for everyone, hand out fliers, get peopel involved with gun rights.

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    I wouldn't call it a "protest."

    I would call it a "rally." Or simply a lawful "presence" or "stroll" while exercising rights. Or something like that.

  8. #8
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    So...let's call it a short stroll on The Strip with guns.

    Handouts/flyers are a good idea.

    How many people do we have?


    Perhaps we should start scheduling things for sometime July 27, 28 or 29? I'll doublecheck the schedule and make sure to schedule several hours for this.


    I'm posting this on other forums. So far:

    thehighroad.org
    thefiringline.com
    downrange.tv forum

  9. #9
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    You better check if you need a permit. If you don't get one, they could get you on something else, like insighting a mob or something.

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    inNV wrote:
    You better check if you need a permit. If you don't get one, they could get you on something else, like insighting a mob or something.
    Hmmm...does that really seem plausible?

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    varminter22 wrote:
    I wouldn't call it a "protest."

    I would call it a "rally." Or simply a lawful "presence" or "stroll" while exercising rights. Or something like that.
    Agreed there is no need to protest anything. If we wish to have a group walk I see no issues with that.

  12. #12
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    cREbralFIX wrote:
    inNV wrote:
    You better check if you need a permit. If you don't get one, they could get you on something else, like insighting a mob or something.
    Hmmm...does that really seem plausible?
    Yes, very. It is very obvious that the powers that be in the city do not like people OC'ing on the strip. The proof of this is in the constant harassment by metroto anyone who does. Having 20+ people OC'ing together will give them a legal reason to do something. What I would suggest is having people spaced. 2 people every 50 ft. or so, that way they don't have anything.

  13. #13
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    Do you think that 1000's of people haven't thought of "group walks" instead of parades? This tactic is used all the time and fails. If you are organizing a group of people walking down the street, its considered a parade, or protest march, no matter how few people show up.

    In CC, you need a special event permit, as below.

    Hey, you dont have to listen to me, but as a veteran of many political movements, I've seen people try this tactic and more than often they are arrested for disturbing the peace and so on. In this case, if the police knew about this, they would arrest you for disturbing the peace as an excuse but with 20 people "walking" in organization its because of a parade.

    If you are standing handing out fliers then we know its legal, period.

    I will make the phone calls, ask some friends who are LVMPD the law, and ask my civil rights attorney. I will also get an email from the guy incharge of the parade permits.


    A Clark County special event permit is required to conductan event that may affect the normal flow of vehicular and/or pedestrian traffic on publicright-of-ways within unincorporatedClark County. Each permit requires coordination with a number of county departments and outside agencies.The permits are issued to ensure that the county's infrastructure is protected and that traffic has minimal disruptions.

  14. #14
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    inNV wrote:

    Yes, very. It is very obvious that the powers that be in the city do not like people OC'ing on the strip. The proof of this is in the constant harassment by metroto anyone who does.




    What other constant harassment has there been? besides Tim?

  15. #15
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    So the last time I was in Vegas with a half dozen friends walking down the strip hitting the casinos and clubs we were breaking the law because we didn't have a parade/protest permit? What about the large families of tourists you see there every day? It's not uncommon to see more than a dozen of them in a group. Does Metro ask them for their permits? Or are you implying that doing the same while armed in an entirely different matter, because I would like to see the law for that one. Or is it the pamphlets and fliers that make it special? If that's the case then let's do without any political materials. They couldn't prove that we were any different than any other group of friends taking a stroll on the strip.

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  16. #16
    inNV
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    Vegassteve wrote:
    inNV wrote:

    Yes, very. It is very obvious that the powers that be in the city do not like people OC'ing on the strip. The proof of this is in the constant harassment by metroÂ*to anyone who does.
    Â*

    Â*

    What other constant harassment has there been? besides Tim?
    I'm sorry, I figured that people had experiences outside of an internet forum...

  17. #17
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    wewd wrote:
    So the last time I was in Vegas with a half dozen friends walking down the strip hitting the casinos and clubs we were breaking the law because we didn't have a parade/protest permit? What about the large families of tourists you see there every day? It's not uncommon to see more than a dozen of them in a group. Does Metro ask them for their permits? Or are you implying that doing the same while armed in an entirely different matter, because I would like to see the law for that one. Or is it the pamphlets and fliers that make it special? If that's the case then let's do without any political materials. They couldn't prove that we were any different than any other group of friends taking a stroll on the strip.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
    and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    6 people is not 20 or so armed people. Look, nobody here said anyone would be in the wrong, just that you'll get hassled, that's all.

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    inNV wrote:
    Vegassteve wrote:
    inNV wrote:

    Yes, very. It is very obvious that the powers that be in the city do not like people OC'ing on the strip. The proof of this is in the constant harassment by metroto anyone who does.




    What other constant harassment has there been? besides Tim?
    I'm sorry, I figured that people had experiences outside of an internet forum...



    I am just asking a question.I dont see alot of these stories so if you have some examples we would like to know. As far as the OC folks on here and other Vegas area forums Tim is the only example I know of thats all.


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    inNV wrote:
    6 people is not 20 or so armed people. Look, nobody here said anyone would be in the wrong, just that you'll get hassled, that's all.
    I thought the idea was to "get hassled" so you could get a lot of publicity and bring a lawsuit.

    Why would you do this organized kind of thing if you didn't expect, and want, to get hassled?

    Ken

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    cREbralFIX wrote:
    In my "tourist" thread, some options were presented to me. One was to OC with the natives.

    Perhaps things would be more interesting if a whole bunch of people decided to OC on the strip at the same time.

    I'd like to "arm" everyone with flyers on OC beforehand and have a few local lawyers present to "handle" the cops.

    I mean...what the heck! They yanked Utah's reciprocity...they should feel SOME consequence for it. I would think a bunch of wasted police man hours and a lawsuit or two would do the trick.

    Anyone interested?
    I don't understand what the objective is here - just cause trouble?

  21. #21
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    To "cause trouble" is not really the point.

    I think there are two objectives, to protest Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits (forcing those without Nevada permits to OC) and to protest Las Vegas Metro Police harassment of open carriers.

    The thread started by a Utah CCW permit holder planning a trip to Las Vegas but no longer being permitted to carry concealed since his Utah permit is no longer recognized. So that's really the main point I think. Take away our right to concealed carry, we'll just open carry.

    And since the Las Vegas police don't like open carry on the strip, that's where we do it.



  22. #22
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    Mike wrote:
    I don't understand what the objective is here - just cause trouble?
    The objectives are:

    1) Exercise our right to liveas a free men, open carrying on the strip.

    2) Deliver a message to the LasVegas PD thatthe harassment will not deter and reduce OC,the harassmentwill onlyincrease the OCing on the strip.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  23. #23
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    timf343 wrote:
    To "cause trouble" is not really the point.

    I think there are two objectives, to protest Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits (forcing those without Nevada permits to OC) and to protest Las Vegas Metro Police harassment of open carriers.

    The thread started by a Utah CCW permit holder planning a trip to Las Vegas but no longer being permitted to carry concealed since his Utah permit is no longer recognized. So that's really the main point I think. Take away our right to concealed carry, we'll just open carry.

    And since the Las Vegas police don't like open carry on the strip, that's where we do it.
    Well a "protest" usually is aimed at the general public - carrying guns in a protest is an awfully blunt message unlikley to be deciphered.

    Given your objective re police harassment, it would be far better of somebody with good facts stepped up to the plate and sued - that's the only way to be taken seriously. If this is a problem, why is no 1983 action yet filed?

    As for the Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits, this was required by state law apparently - and open carrying would seem ineffective expressive conduct as it shows you don;t need a permit to carry so what's the problem?

    Is their a problem getting a nevada CHP if you live there? probably not, right?

    And if you do not live there? Can you not apply? if not, sue under Art. IV priv. and imm. clause and make them issue to non-residents.

    Open carrying in groups of protesters sends a weak message and can have repercussions like the Black Panthers' OCing in califonring did - it is weakness to imply thatyou need to band together in groups to OC or that OCers are "protesters" - generally "protesters" are not views very positively.

    Hold an OC event like a social gathering, not a "protest."

  24. #24
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    Thanks Mike. Great advice. We would well to listen to Mike. He has done alot of leg work and knows the ins and outs of this sort of thing.

  25. #25
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    Just "incase" I made sure that I had someone from the county tell me what is needed and not. They told me no permit needed, as below. I kept all the emails if someone needs them.

    This is in regards to having just a walk with less than 20 people.

    Steve, feel free to make a snide comment, jerk

    -----

    No permit from us...

    [size=Sincerely,

    Russell Davis
    Clark County Public Works
    Administration
    500 Grand Central Parkway
    Las Vegas, NV 89155
    ]
    [size=-----
    ]


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