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OC Protest on the Las Vegas strip?

Would you be interested in an open carry "protest" on the Las Vegas Strip?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • This is gay. Get a CCW dangit!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I only OC with an AR-15

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I only OC with an AK-47 and body armor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Who needs guns?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Drunks like you shouldn't have guns!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

timf343

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
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Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
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To "cause trouble" is not really the point.

I think there are two objectives, to protest Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits (forcing those without Nevada permits to OC) and to protest Las Vegas Metro Police harassment of open carriers.

The thread started by a Utah CCW permit holder planning a trip to Las Vegas but no longer being permitted to carry concealed since his Utah permit is no longer recognized. So that's really the main point I think. Take away our right to concealed carry, we'll just open carry.

And since the Las Vegas police don't like open carry on the strip, that's where we do it.
 

Thundar

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
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Mike wrote:
I don't understand what the objective is here - just cause trouble?

The objectives are:

1) Exercise our right to liveas a free men, open carrying on the strip.

2) Deliver a message to the LasVegas PD thatthe harassment will not deter and reduce OC,the harassmentwill onlyincrease the OCing on the strip.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
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timf343 wrote:
To "cause trouble" is not really the point.

I think there are two objectives, to protest Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits (forcing those without Nevada permits to OC) and to protest Las Vegas Metro Police harassment of open carriers.

The thread started by a Utah CCW permit holder planning a trip to Las Vegas but no longer being permitted to carry concealed since his Utah permit is no longer recognized. So that's really the main point I think. Take away our right to concealed carry, we'll just open carry.

And since the Las Vegas police don't like open carry on the strip, that's where we do it.
Well a "protest" usually is aimed at the general public - carrying guns in a protest is an awfully blunt message unlikley to be deciphered.

Given your objective re police harassment, it would be far better of somebody with good facts stepped up to the plate and sued - that's the only way to be taken seriously. If this is a problem, why is no 1983 action yet filed?

As for the Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits, this was required by state law apparently - and open carrying would seem ineffective expressive conduct as it shows you don;t need a permit to carry so what's the problem?

Is their a problem getting a nevada CHP if you live there? probably not, right?

And if you do not live there? Can you not apply? if not, sue under Art. IV priv. and imm. clause and make them issue to non-residents.

Open carrying in groups of protesters sends a weak message and can have repercussions like the Black Panthers' OCing in califonring did - it is weakness to imply thatyou need to band together in groups to OC or that OCers are "protesters" - generally "protesters" are not views very positively.

Hold an OC event like a social gathering, not a "protest."
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
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Las Vegas NV, ,
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Thanks Mike. Great advice. We would well to listen to Mike. He has done alot of leg work and knows the ins and outs of this sort of thing.
 

Pace

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
1,140
Location
Las Vegas, NV
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Just "incase" I made sure that I had someone from the county tell me what is needed and not. They told me no permit needed, as below. I kept all the emails if someone needs them.

This is in regards to having just a walk with less than 20 people.

Steve, feel free to make a snide comment, jerk :)

-----

No permit from us...

[size=Sincerely,

Russell Davis
Clark County Public Works
Administration
500 Grand Central Parkway
Las Vegas, NV 89155
]
[size=-----
]
 

cREbralFIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
378
Location
, ,
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Sorry for my lack of response. I have been receiving timeouts from the server for the past day and a half.

I now see 13 people are interested in having an OC gathering in Las Vegas. I have not received a PM from anyone so we can coordinate a date and time.

***

From the Nevada State Constitution:

Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme. 1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.

It does not say "Nevada citizen" -- it says "citizen". I am a citizen of Virginia. Therefore, as far as I can tell, I'm being denied my "...right to keep and bear arms for security and defense...."

Unfortunately, some doofus in a black dress probably decided that permits for carry are constitutional (Nevada, not Federal). I just don't know at this point.

The main problem is that in Constitutional law, the Constitution means what was meant at the time it was written. It is not supposed to be modified by judicial decree. However, that's not what's been established. So, we're here because WE have gone along with the program. CCW permits are a symptom of this judicial modification of constitutions.

***

Some notes:

The options are:

1) To heck with it and not say or do anything.
2) Increase awareness of the issue with a gathering
3) Sue
4) Try to get jacked up by police and take my chances in court
5) Start a shooting war

#5 isn't going to happen, though Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry are probably screaming at me from their graves. Neither is #4. #3 is a possibility if I can get legal help. The city and state are hoping for #1 and I don't want to let them off the hook. That leaves option 2.


***

Goals: Again, Nevada is denying me the RKBA through bureaucratic fiat. There is no way for me to acquire a Nevada carry permit in three weeks. Additionally, I'll have to pay a fee for the permit and pay for a "class" on how to carry in Nevada. Therefore:

A) I'm being taxed for a right
B) I'm being denied my right to keep and bear arms because of an executive's decision to suppress open carry in the jurisdiction.

If I had the money, I would sue. I am not willing to do this "for free" (with the cost being jail time for "illegal" concealed carry).

Given option #3, who are the "go to" lawyers for RKBA issues in Nevada?

***

One thing I have noticed are the responses of supposedly "pro-gun" people on other gun forums. They are exceedingly negative AND COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO TAKE ACTION TO SUPPORT THE RKBA. It's really quite sad; I have the feeling that the RKBA really is on life support. The vaunted "militias" and "guns behind every blade of grass" no longer exist in this country. No wonder Congress and The President are not afraid to implement whatever schemes they want.

***

In summary, we need to decide what we're going to do. I'll need PMs from people who are committed to showing up to this during the work week. If only a few people can show up, the gathering for expanding awareness is probably not worth it. I'd rather just meet some shooters for lunch. No need to "piss in the wind" over this if availability is scanty. Maybe going through the courts is the only way to get a decision.
 

varminter22

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
927
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

There is no way for me to acquire a Nevada carry permit in three weeks.
Actually, there is a way - but it is probably very unlikely (read 'virtually impossible').

Nevada law allows for a sheriff to issue a permit without going through the permit process:
NRS 202.3687 Temporary permits.
1. The provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, do not prohibit a sheriff from issuing a temporary permit. A temporary permit may include, but is not limited to, provisions specifying the period for which the permit is valid.
 

cREbralFIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
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, ,
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varminter22 wrote:
There is no way for me to acquire a Nevada carry permit in three weeks.
Actually, there is a way - but it is probably very unlikely (read 'virtually impossible').

Nevada law allows for a sheriff to issue a permit without going through the permit process:
NRS 202.3687 Temporary permits.
1. The provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, do not prohibit a sheriff from issuing a temporary permit. A temporary permit may include, but is not limited to, provisions specifying the period for which the permit is valid.
Interesting.

What are the odds the sheriff will issue one to me upon request? Are you familiar with the sheriff of that county?
 

Pace

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Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
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Location
Las Vegas, NV
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The current sheriff is rated F by the NRA and is anti-gun, which is why I am helping someone (and several other members of this board) run against him.

But this is an OC site, you can OC in Nevada.

The only time temp permits were issued were for immediate personal safety reasons such as stalking.

Feel free to PM me.
 

cREbralFIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
378
Location
, ,
imported post

Pace wrote:
The current sheriff is rated F by the NRA and is anti-gun, which is why I am helping someone (and several other members of this board) run against him.

But this is an OC site, you can OC in Nevada.

The only time temp permits were issued were for immediate personal safety reasons such as stalking.

Feel free to PM me.
So do you think they'd give me a temporary permit if I said I was being stalked by OC'ers? :celebrate

WOOT! Post #357!
 

Decoligny

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
1,865
Location
Rosamond, California, USA
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Pace wrote:
Do you think that 1000's of people haven't thought of "group walks" instead of parades? This tactic is used all the time and fails. If you are organizing a group of people walking down the street, its considered a parade, or protest march, no matter how few people show up.

In CC, you need a special event permit, as below.

Hey, you dont have to listen to me, but as a veteran of many political movements, I've seen people try this tactic and more than often they are arrested for disturbing the peace and so on. In this case, if the police knew about this, they would arrest you for disturbing the peace as an excuse but with 20 people "walking" in organization its because of a parade.

If you are standing handing out fliers then we know its legal, period.

I will make the phone calls, ask some friends who are LVMPD the law, and ask my civil rights attorney. I will also get an email from the guy incharge of the parade permits.


A Clark County special event permit is required to conductan event that may affect the normal flow of vehicular and/or pedestrian traffic on publicright-of-ways within unincorporatedClark County. Each permit requires coordination with a number of county departments and outside agencies.The permits are issued to ensure that the county's infrastructure is protected and that traffic has minimal disruptions.
PgSpacer-350px.gif

OK, if let's say "the Milwaukee Senior Bingo League" is not "prohibited" from strolling along seeing the sights on the strip in an "organized group", then the OpenCarry.org membership should not be "prohibited" from strollingalong the strip seeing the sights. If it is simply some friends getting together, it is not an "event".

If there is no handing out of pamphlets, and no protest of any kind, then you simply have a bunch of citizens walking down the strip, maybe stopping for a cold soda or a pretzel, just like any other tourist, only exercising their 2A rights while doing so.
 

Thundar

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Joined
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4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
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Mike wrote:
timf343 wrote:
To "cause trouble" is not really the point.

I think there are two objectives, to protest Nevada's elimination of recognition of Utah CCW permits (forcing those without Nevada permits to OC) and to protest Las Vegas Metro Police harassment of open carriers.

The thread started by a Utah CCW permit holder planning a trip to Las Vegas but no longer being permitted to carry concealed since his Utah permit is no longer recognized. So that's really the main point I think. Take away our right to concealed carry, we'll just open carry.

And since the Las Vegas police don't like open carry on the strip, that's where we do it.
Well a "protest" usually is aimed at the general public - carrying guns in a protest is an awfully blunt message unlikley to be deciphered.

Given your objective re police harassment, it would be far better of somebody with good facts stepped up to the plate and sued - that's the only way to be taken seriously. If this is a problem, why is no 1983 action yet filed?
The "sue them" answer is a very lawyer like answer.

In the real world people are allowed to peacably assemble. It was written somewhere in that bill of rights thingey. That is important to many here.

In the real world there is satisfaction in standing up and being counted for what you believe in.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
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Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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Thundar wrote:
In the real world people are allowed to peacably assemble. It was written somewhere in that bill of rights thingey. That is important to many here.

In the real world there is satisfaction in standing up and being counted for what you believe in.
That's fine, but the discussion point is effectiveness - some public events and demonstrations can be effective, but not all, expecially when it comes to guns.

Doing somthing that feels good but amounts to shooting your cause in the foot is not very smart if the cause is your focus.

Whether the "Las Vegas 17" have a cognizable goal which achievable by suddent open carry on the strip remains to be seen.
 

jrwalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
61
Location
Reno, Nevada, USA
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Mike wrote:
Open carrying in groups of protesters sends a weak message and can have repercussions like the Black Panthers' OCing in califonring did - it is weakness to imply thatyou need to band together in groups to OC or that OCers are "protesters" - generally "protesters" are not views very positively.

Hold an OC event like a social gathering, not a "protest."



Imagine if MLK thought this way... :quirky
 

timf343

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
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Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
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I agree that having a "purpose" to be there, rather than just to walk around, makes it easier to digest by the public, but I'm not completely against going there merely to take a walk either. It's obviously kept very clean, so litter pickup and graffiti painting is pointless. That is, unless we were just north of the "main" strip area, say north of the Wynn hotel.

There you have several projects under construction, including the stopped Echelon Place project (where the Stardust was). It's not as visible, but it's not as crowded. And it's not as well-kept.

Then we actually have a good reason to be there, cleaning up garbage. And we accomplish the same goal without being right in the middle of all the action. Since it is the dead of summer, we have to go in the morning, which will also help minimize the number of people out (I don't mind passers-by, but IMO shoulder-to-shoulder people is not conducive to safe OC). How about a Saturday or Sunday morning at 9am? If we finish by 11am, we'll miss the hottest part of the day.

From Desert Inn (north of Wynn) 1 mile north to Sahara (line between "strip" in unincorporated Clark County and "downtown" in Las Vegas City limits), there are side roads on both sides of the strip, with shopping centers, casinos, churches, and even Channel 8 news is only a few hundred feet away. Maybe with enough notice, we could have them film us. With other positive OC publicity around the country, they might just take interest.

Alternatively, we could go "close" to the strip and do major side streets like Tropicana, Harmon, Flamingo.

If you all don't want to pickup litter, I understand. How about a simple photo opp at the Las Vegas sign? Or just an OC lunch or dinner? What about some place like Harley Davidson Cafe? Or any of the many other standalone restaurants along Las Vegas Blvd that aren't inside a casino?
 

Thundar

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
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Mike wrote:
Thundar wrote:
In the real world people are allowed to peacably assemble. It was written somewhere in that bill of rights thingey. That is important to many here.

In the real world there is satisfaction in standing up and being counted for what you believe in.
That's fine, but the discussion point is effectiveness - some public events and demonstrations can be effective, but not all, expecially when it comes to guns.

Doing somthing that feels good but amounts to shooting your cause in the foot is not very smart if the cause is your focus.

Whether the "Las Vegas 17" have a cognizable goal which achievable by suddent open carry on the strip remains to be seen.

Why would exercising our right to open carry where open carry is clearly legal be "shooting ourselves in the foot"?

"A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost" Cite: http://www.opencarry.org/
 

Vegassteve

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Apr 15, 2008
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Las Vegas NV, ,
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timf343 wrote:
I agree that having a "purpose" to be there, rather than just to walk around, makes it easier to digest by the public, but I'm not completely against going there merely to take a walk either. It's obviously kept very clean, so litter pickup and graffiti painting is pointless. That is, unless we were just north of the "main" strip area, say north of the Wynn hotel.

There you have several projects under construction, including the stopped Echelon Place project (where the Stardust was). It's not as visible, but it's not as crowded. And it's not as well-kept.

Then we actually have a good reason to be there, cleaning up garbage. And we accomplish the same goal without being right in the middle of all the action. Since it is the dead of summer, we have to go in the morning, which will also help minimize the number of people out (I don't mind passers-by, but IMO shoulder-to-shoulder people is not conducive to safe OC). How about a Saturday or Sunday morning at 9am? If we finish by 11am, we'll miss the hottest part of the day.

From Desert Inn (north of Wynn) 1 mile north to Sahara (line between "strip" in unincorporated Clark County and "downtown" in Las Vegas City limits), there are side roads on both sides of the strip, with shopping centers, casinos, churches, and even Channel 8 news is only a few hundred feet away. Maybe with enough notice, we could have them film us. With other positive OC publicity around the country, they might just take interest.

Alternatively, we could go "close" to the strip and do major side streets like Tropicana, Harmon, Flamingo.

If you all don't want to pickup litter, I understand. How about a simple photo opp at the Las Vegas sign? Or just an OC lunch or dinner? What about some place like Harley Davidson Cafe? Or any of the many other standalone restaurants along Las Vegas Blvd that aren't inside a casino?





I think a group pic at the sign is a great idea.
 

Jeff Hayes

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Long gone
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I will be in Vegas on July 25th 26th and 27th, let me know if you are doing it on one of those days

Orphan
 
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