Duty to inform?

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Now, I was under the impression that if you had a CCP and were carrying concealed, that you had to inform LE if stopped.

Today, I was listening to Gun Talk, and Clark Apshian was on, and he said something about the rule about duty to inform sunsetting, and that we no longer had a duty to inform.

Could somebody help clarify this?

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Yea -
They took that off the books a little bit ago.

If I get stopped by a police officer, do I, as a permit holder, have to tell the officer that I have a gun in my possession? Although there is no legal requirement to identify yourself to a law enforcement officer, it is recommended to do so.

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http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQ.html#2

This kinda pisses me off though:

If an officer finds or sees a gun on your person during their contact with you, and you have not identified yourself as a permit holder in legal possession of a firearm, the officer must assume you are carrying the gun illegally and will take defensive action.

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..so when does "innocent until proven guilt" come into play?

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Yeah, you don't have to inform them, but it seems like it would help set the tone for the encounter with the officer on a better note if you informed them. Say something like, "Although I'm not required, as a courtesy, I would like to inform you sir that I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I am carrying a sidearm. Then give him the location of the firearm, its caliber and model and whether it's loaded or not. That way, he will feel a lot more comfortable knowing you are armed and where it's located so he can maximize his situational awareness. Handling yourself this way will also show the officer that you have respect for him enough to sacrifice unwarranted information in order for him to feel safer during the encounter. It could make the difference between getting harassed to death and trampled on like a cheap rug from India, and walking away with the respect of the officer, which will hopefully trickle down to his buddies and then eventually to the department heads. Our reputation is everything right now, and anything we can do to improve it in the public eye, and the eyes of law enforcement, the better off we all are.

Kevin

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LovesHisXD45 wrote:

...harassed to death and trampled on like a cheap rug from India...

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That sounds SO unappealing.

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ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

LovesHisXD45 wrote:

...harassed to death and trampled on like a cheap rug from India...

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That sounds SO unappealing.

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Heck yeah, it does. heheheh I thought it was a good comparison.

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I use this law to my advantage.

If I am in a postion that warrants me to tell them to help my postion.

Most times being approched by law enforcement I say nothing to them. When pulled over I say nothing.

Talking to the police is never to your advantage. If a police officer is talking to you asking you questions it is not a good postion for you.

On youtube look at the don't talk to the police has valuable information.

Please don't get me wrong I support my local law enforcement they have a hard job to do I respect them for that.

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:

I use this law to my advantage.

If I am in a postion that warrants me to tell them to help my postion.

Most times being approched by law enforcement I say nothing to them. When pulled over I say nothing.

Talking to the police is never to your advantage. If a police officer is talking to you asking you questions it is not a good postion for you.

On youtube look at the don't talk to the police has valuable information.

Please don't get me wrong I support my local law enforcement they have a hard job to do I respect them for that.

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I totally understand your point. It would really depend on the situation. If I thought my sidearm might be discovered, then that situation might warrant disclosure. You are right though. Talking to the police as little as possible is definitely the best course to protect your rear end in almost any situation these days.

Kevin

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I just got my permit on July 1 and in the letter they send with your card it basically states some of the codes you should be familiar with along withwhatevery one else has stated: (I'm paraphrasing as I don't have the paper with me) Ifyou get stopped by a police officer or have an encounter with Law enforcement it is recommended to identify yourself as a permit holder etc blah blah you get the idea:celebrate

I recall from my class by Darwin Mckee (former HWY patrol) he stated that most stops (traffic) when they run your id etc it automatically pulls up/flagged that your a permit holder so he stated it's a good idea to inform them before he runs your id that your armed & where it is etc and keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times... He said its just best to hand over both license/permit and registration all at once...

I have notbeen stopped yet as a permit holder etc (knock on wood) sonot sure what I'll do

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bmeldrum wrote:

I just got my permit on July 1 and in the letter they send with your card it basically states some of the codes you should be familiar with along withwhatevery one else has stated: (I'm paraphrasing as I don't have the paper with me) Ifyou get stopped by a police officer or have an encounter with Law enforcement it is recommended to identify yourself as a permit holder etc blah blah you get the idea:celebrate

I recall from my class by Darwin Mckee (former HWY patrol) he stated that most stops (traffic) when they run your id etc it automatically pulls up/flagged that your a permit holder so he stated it's a good idea to inform them before he runs your id that your armed & where it is etc and keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times... He said its just best to hand over both license/permit and registration all at once...

I have notbeen stopped yet as a permit holder etc (knock on wood) sonot sure what I'll do

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BTW

I have found NOTHING in UTAH statutes REQUIRING one to CARRY a CWP with them when carrying concealed, ONLY THAT A PERMIT HAS BEEN ISSUED!

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This is how the administrative rule used to read, before it expired. If you search the current rules now, it is gone.

http://www.code-co.com/utah/admin/2000/r724004.htm#TOP
R724-4-13 Requirement to Notify Peace Officer When Stopped.
When a concealed firearm permit holder or certificate of qualification holder is stopped for questioning by a peace officer based on reasonable suspicion in accordance with Section 77-7-15 and the holder has a concealed firearm in his/her possession, the holder shall immediately advise the peace officer that he/she is a lawful holder and has a concealed firearm in his/her possession.

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bmeldrum wrote:

I recall from my class by Darwin Mckee (former HWY patrol) he stated that most stops (traffic) when they run your id etc it automatically pulls up/flagged that your a permit holder so he stated it's a good idea to inform them before he runs your id that your armed & where it is etc and keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times... He said its just best to hand over both license/permit and registration all at once...

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As a maine permit holder I don't have this issue. My license will not reveal permit status. Also I tend to not care about giving the police any more information than they need.

Given that it is no longer required to inform nor is it required to have a permit to carry concealed/loaded in a vehicle I see no reason to inform the LEO.

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I have not been pulled over in the 3 years that I have been carrying, but I would choose to not inform them. I honor and support law enforcement and still think I may do it myself, but it is none of their business, quite frankly. Especially since you no longer need to even have a permit to carry loaded in your vehicle.

If they ask me to step out of the car I would inform them I am carrying before I did so if I had the gun on my person. If I am ever driving more than an hour or so (which is when I am more likely to get stopped) I have my Serpa down in my center console between the front bucket seats. If asked to step out in this case I would not notify and lock the doors behind me.

Speeding or other traffic violations are not reason enough for them to search your person or vehicle.