CHP application process question

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A friend of mine applied for his CHP and was required to submit 3 copies of everything to include DL, application, qualification cert. etc. Is this allowed by state law?

I intentionally left out the county for now.

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Toad wrote:

A friend of mine applied for his CHP and was required to submit 3 copies of everything to include DL, application, qualification cert. etc. Is this allowed by state law?

I intentionally left out the county for now.

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The copies is probably going to be sustained if challeneged - courts do set "procedure" for filing and if you file a civil suit, you will normally have to follow their procedures, e.g., extra copies.

But copies of DLs or other IDs cannot be required - in fact, their is no ID required to apply for CHPs unless the locality requires fingerprinting in which case reasonable ID can be required by the police.

If your frind supplies the DL copy, it will be put in the CHP file and subject to public inspection and copying and even being put on the Internet by anyone who wants to do so.

It would be great if your friend would refuse to show ID or DL when applyhing and force the issue - obviously this means getting the application notorized before he gets tot he courthouse, which means showing ID unless the notory knows him.

He needs to be ready to have the application denied and prepared to suck it up - if the clerk refuses to accept, he should find a lawyer to bring a mandamus action in circuit ct against the clerk; if a judge denies, even better, then find a lawyer to file appeal to the Va. App. Ct.

BTW, make sure your friend knows SSNs are not required on the application and to write in "not disclosed, if any" in that block so that somebody else does not fill in that block!

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Toad wrote:

A friend of mine applied for his CHP and was required to submit 3 copies of everything to include DL, application, qualification cert. etc. Is this allowed by state law?

I intentionally left out the county for now.

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i made everything in 3x (sans DL)

I would not let them scan that, as it is FOIA'able

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I just made the 3 copies.

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I know this might come as a surprise but the court actually has a copier that our generous tax money paid for. If you're in fairfax, you can take pride in knowing it's on a unique Italian marble floor.

The court could probably go either way on the issue of copies, but the law does say submit your (singular tense) application ... Plus, if it costs you to comply with the extra-legal procedures set by a particular court, and they already charge the statutory maximum $50, you can sue for them for 'charging' you more than permitted by law. While the cost ofextra copies is probably less than a buck, to comply witha court's 3 copies law could costyou $2-3 depending on what notary fees are involved, and if they require you to provide a SASE, that's also extra.

You could end up spending $55 for what is supposed to only cost you $50. I think though that the SASE issue is not one worth pushing. The courtcould easily respond - Ok, come here to pick it up, or change their instructions to 'provide a SASE if you want your permit mailed to you, otherwise come pick it up'.

Severalapplicants in Fairfax county have submitted singular copy applications and been approved.

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Mr. Y wrote:

I know this might come as a surprise but the court actually has a copier that our generous tax money paid for. If you're in fairfax, you can take pride in knowing it's on a unique Italian marble floor.

The court could probably go either way on the issue of copies, but the law does say submit your (singular tense) application ... Plus, if it costs you to comply with the extra-legal procedures set by a particular court, and they already charge the statutory maximum $50, you can sue for them for 'charging' you more than permitted by law. While the cost ofextra copies is probably less than a buck, to comply witha court's 3 copies law could costyou $2-3 depending on what notary fees are involved, and if they require you to provide a SASE, that's also extra.

You could end up spending $55 for what is supposed to only cost you $50. I think though that the SASE issue is not one worth pushing. The courtcould easily respond - Ok, come here to pick it up, or change their instructions to 'provide a SASE if you want your permit mailed to you, otherwise come pick it up'.

Severalapplicants in Fairfax county have submitted singular copy applications and been approved.

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I think that anything that they ask for over $50 outlined in the Code is worth fighting for.....give them an inch, they take a mile.

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I don't remember exactly, but I think I provided my DL as proof of age and they photocopied it along with a copy of my Water Bill as proof of residency.

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wylde007 wrote:

I don't remember exactly, but I think I provided my DL as proof of age and they photocopied it along with a copy of my Water Bill as proof of residency.

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But there is no requirement for you to prove your age or place of actual residence - you must merely assert siuch information on the form - if people would stop complying with these demands, the demands would stop.

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According to the VSP independent municipalities have some leeway in what they may require to be provided along with permit application, much like some elect to require fingerprinting cards.

Since a valid photo ID MUST BE CARRIED with a conceal permit in VA, having a copy of it on file is really not much of a stretch in my mind.

Is it excessive? Maybe. Is it a violation? It doesn't read that way to me.

From "http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm"

It is suggested that the applicant check with the Circuit Court where they reside for any local procedures. Questions specific to completion of the application, residency, or acceptable proof of handgun competency should be directed to the court.

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However, at least in Virginia Beach, it does not appear that providing identification or proof of residency at the time of the filing is not required.

http://www.vbgov.com/vgn.aspx?vgnex...010VgnVCM1000006310640aRCRD&vgnextfmt=default

I guess they got me. Shucks.

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This site:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

is the ultimate authority, not the VSP web site.

TFred

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You don't say.:?

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I think Fred's point is that even the Virginia State Police might be adding extralegal requirements that aren't sanctioned in the law. Proving your identity or residency versus merely stating them are examples of requirements that don't exist in law.

~ Boyd

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Here's a funny one for you. The CHP law says:

H. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge; the date of issuance; and the expiration date.

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...yet CHPs have 'File # xx-xxx' specified at the top. Who's going to complain about that? What about the fact that it says "Commonwealth of Virginia", or the name of the court, or even "Permit to carry a concealed handgun"?? That's 'information', right?? :lol:

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Just put in my app for my CHP on Monday at the Prince William County Courthouse. The lady did ask for the license but only glanced at it real quick to make sure the addresses matched then handed it back to me. No copies of any of my official identification (DL, Passport, Birth Cert, etc) save my change of name court papers were put in along with my app.

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PeteXD wrote:

Just put in my app for my CHP on Monday at the Prince William County Courthouse. The lady did ask for the license but only glanced at it real quick to make sure the addresses matched then handed it back to me. No copies of any of my official identification (DL, Passport, Birth Cert, etc) save my change of name court papers were put in along with my app.

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That's about what York County did, too. They also made me go downstairs to the juvenile detention processing facility to get electronically fingerprinted. The Deputy that scanned my prints treated me like a criminal, even though I was polite and tried conversation. When I left, I got the feeling my application would be denied becuase of the way I was treated. I got it in a couple weeks, but I definitely got the feeling that the guy doing the electronic printing was either under some sort of disciplinary action or he just doesn't like the idea of citizens having the right to CC...

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

PeteXD wrote:

Just put in my app for my CHP on Monday at the Prince William County Courthouse. The lady did ask for the license but only glanced at it real quick to make sure the addresses matched then handed it back to me. No copies of any of my official identification (DL, Passport, Birth Cert, etc) save my change of name court papers were put in along with my app.

Click to expand...

That's about what York County did, too. They also made me go downstairs to the juvenile detention processing facility to get electronically fingerprinted. The Deputy that scanned my prints treated me like a criminal, even though I was polite and tried conversation. When I left, I got the feeling my application would be denied becuase of the way I was treated. I got it in a couple weeks, but I definitely got the feeling that the guy doing the electronic printing was either under some sort of disciplinary action or he just doesn't like the idea of citizens having the right to CC...

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yeah they didnt print me... kinda glad too... was in a bit of a rush and the FBI has PLENTY of records of my prints by now between applying for LEO positions in NoVa, DCJS certs, and security jobs...

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PeteXD wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

PeteXD wrote:

Just put in my app for my CHP on Monday at the Prince William County Courthouse. The lady did ask for the license but only glanced at it real quick to make sure the addresses matched then handed it back to me. No copies of any of my official identification (DL, Passport, Birth Cert, etc) save my change of name court papers were put in along with my app.

Click to expand...

That's about what York County did, too. They also made me go downstairs to the juvenile detention processing facility to get electronically fingerprinted. The Deputy that scanned my prints treated me like a criminal, even though I was polite and tried conversation. When I left, I got the feeling my application would be denied becuase of the way I was treated. I got it in a couple weeks, but I definitely got the feeling that the guy doing the electronic printing was either under some sort of disciplinary action or he just doesn't like the idea of citizens having the right to CC...

Click to expand...

yeah they didnt print me... kinda glad too... was in a bit of a rush and the FBI has PLENTY of records of my prints by now between applying for LEO positions in NoVa, DCJS certs, and security jobs...

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Me too. No shortage of my prints in the system from military service, security clearances, international travel, law enforcement, Texas CHL, etc...

If I ever leave my prints somewhere, they know who I am pretty darn fast... :banghead:

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PeteXD wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

PeteXD wrote:

Just put in my app for my CHP on Monday at the Prince William County Courthouse. The lady did ask for the license but only glanced at it real quick to make sure the addresses matched then handed it back to me. No copies of any of my official identification (DL, Passport, Birth Cert, etc) save my change of name court papers were put in along with my app.

Click to expand...

That's about what York County did, too. They also made me go downstairs to the juvenile detention processing facility to get electronically fingerprinted. The Deputy that scanned my prints treated me like a criminal, even though I was polite and tried conversation. When I left, I got the feeling my application would be denied becuase of the way I was treated. I got it in a couple weeks, but I definitely got the feeling that the guy doing the electronic printing was either under some sort of disciplinary action or he just doesn't like the idea of citizens having the right to CC...

Click to expand...

yeah they didnt print me... kinda glad too... was in a bit of a rush and the FBI has PLENTY of records of my prints by now between applying for LEO positions in NoVa, DCJS certs, and security jobs...

Click to expand...

That seems odd. Does anyone know if York County has an ordinance in place for fingerprinting? It's my understanding that if they don't, they cannot require you to submit prints.

From the pertinent paragraph of 18.2-308: "As a condition for issuance of a concealed handgun permit, the applicant shall submit to fingerprinting if required by local ordinance in the county or city where the applicant resides..."

TFred

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If it's "wrong", what recourse do I have?

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

If it's "wrong", what recourse do I have?

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Now that you gave in, none. But does York have an ordinance or not? As a York resident, you should know or find out this info.