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Private Gun Sales Nevada

mp06011999

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Pace wrote: The answer is STILL NO. And the reason is STILL both parties would be committing felonies against 18 USC 922(a)(3) and (a)(5). The Federal regulation prohibits private sales between residents of two different states, REGARDLESS of where the sale takes place, REGARDLESS of if it is face to face or if there is shipping involved. You sell a gun privately to a person who you know is not a resident of your own state, and you have broken the law, period, REGARDLESS of whether or not anyone showed ID.

But if nobody shows ID or does a background check or even asks any questions because none of that is even required, then "knowingly" can be argued. No?
 

MAC702

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You are under no obligation to do any research into your buyer. The buyer is the one with the legal burden to only buy if he qualifies to possess. But, if you already KNOW your buyer does not qualify, now you also are committing a crime.
 
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MAC702

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Let me clarify. The bill of sale is just SUGGESTED paperwork, it's not actually required. Yes, you can hand the gun to someone as a gift and never complete a single piece of paper. However, the bill of sale is suggested (or a bill of gifting), as a paper trail in case you later need it. For example, if the gun is used in a crime at some future point, and it's traced back to you, you could produce this piece of paper showing you no longer own it.

Tim

Since this thread got bumped:

If you feel a bill of sale is good policy, you should do this for all sales, like TVs, computers, radios, etc. Many of these things have serial numbers, too, and a computer is far more likely to be used in a "crime."

A paper trail is really just a "feel-good." You are under no obligation to show it to anyone unless you yourself are a suspect, or you just like talking to police for some strange reason. And the police MUST accept this as a legitimate answer: "No, I sold that years ago; have a nice day, somewhere else."

I will not submit to a BOS as a private buyer. You will lose the sale first.

Keep in mind that when a licensed dealer does this paperwork, it goes into secured storage. I have no idea what some private seller can do (willfully or negligently) with my personal information that was never any of his business from the start.
 
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mp06011999

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Since this thread got bumped:

If you feel a bill of sale is good policy, you should do this for all sales, like TVs, computers, radios, etc. Many of these things have serial numbers, too, and a computer is far more likely to be used in a "crime."

A paper trail is really just a "feel-good." You are under no obligation to show it to anyone unless you yourself are a suspect, or you just like talking to police for some strange reason. And the police MUST accept this as a legitimate answer: "No, I sold that years ago; have a nice day, somewhere else."

I will not submit to a BOS as a private buyer. You will lose the sale first.

Keep in mind that when a licensed dealer does this paperwork, it goes into secured storage. I have no idea what some private seller can do (willfully or negligently) with my personal information that was never any of his business from the start.

I really really like that! Too many times we are guilty of blind obedience - being led to believe that we MUST do this or that because it's the norm. Enough is enough. Freedom isn't given, it's taken. I really like the reality that in this so-called land of the free, freedom to privacy is paramount and "NO, I am not showing you my ID". Nor shall I be requesting it of others. It's none of my/your business.
 

wrightme

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Since this thread got bumped:

If you feel a bill of sale is good policy, you should do this for all sales, like TVs, computers, radios, etc. Many of these things have serial numbers, too, and a computer is far more likely to be used in a "crime."

A paper trail is really just a "feel-good." You are under no obligation to show it to anyone unless you yourself are a suspect, or you just like talking to police for some strange reason. And the police MUST accept this as a legitimate answer: "No, I sold that years ago; have a nice day, somewhere else."

I will not submit to a BOS as a private buyer. You will lose the sale first.

Keep in mind that when a licensed dealer does this paperwork, it goes into secured storage. I have no idea what some private seller can do (willfully or negligently) with my personal information that was never any of his business from the start.





Maybe, but....


If I buy a Dell, and Dell knows who I am and that I bought a computer with a certain serial #, there is no restriction upon what I do with it, or how I sell it; whether to a felon, or across state lines. And, if it shows up at a crime scene in the hands of a felon, I don't need any bill-of-sale to 'prove myself innocent' of nothing that might have been against the law.

Not the same with a firearm. While no true onus exists to vet a buyer, having the firearm in the hands of a felon, at a crime scene, and paperwork somewhere tracing that serial # to me.....

Having a bill-of-sale to someone else entirely would do much towards limiting the exposure to the inside of cells, and reduce legal costs to 'prove self innocent'. Would there be any true crime to be charged with? Probably not. Would it be quite possible for the state to show enough to convince a judge to sign out a warrant? Very possibly.



IOW, it is quite easy to feel that penning a bill-of-sale for selling a firearm is more fitting than penning one out for a computer or tv or other consumer good.
 
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MAC702

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Has a BOS (or lack thereof) made the difference in that past for a situation like you propose? I prefer an answer in the state of NV, but will accept one from AZ, UT, MT, ID, or other similarly "free" states.

I'm not talking about a story where someone showed a BOS and the cops left. I want to see some evidence where had a guy told them to pound sand, a different outcome would have occurred to him.

My concern over privacy is more important, to me.

But I have no objection to buyers and sellers who agree to BsOS for their own reasons. You just won't be selling to me.
 
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mp06011999

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Has a BOS (or lack thereof) made the difference in that past for a situation like you propose? I prefer an answer in the state of NV, but will accept one from AZ, UT, MT, ID, or other similarly "free" states.

I'm not talking about a story where someone showed a BOS and the cops left. I want to see some evidence where had a guy told them to pound sand, a different outcome would have occurred to him.

My concern over privacy is more important, to me.

But I have no objection to buyers and sellers who agree to BsOS for their own reasons. You just won't be selling to me.

MAC702,

How would you handle a purchase of a handgun from a private seller where you are both Clark County residents? Meaning, how do you make sure that you are not buying a stolen handgun so that when you go to register it with Metro, they don't seize it? Without the BOS and some ID on the seller would you be left holding the bag with no recourse to get your money back?
Just curious how to handle that kind of situation.

Thanks
 
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Vegassteve

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MAC702,

How would you handle a purchase of a handgun from a private seller where you are both Clark County residents? Meaning, how do you make sure that you are not buying a stolen handgun so that when you go to register it with Metro, they don't seize it? Without the BOS and some ID on the seller would you be left holding the bag with no recourse to get your money back?
Just curious how to handle that kind of situation.

Thanks

I think yes you would be stuck.
 

MAC702

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MAC702,

How would you handle a purchase of a handgun from a private seller where you are both Clark County residents? Meaning, how do you make sure that you are not buying a stolen handgun so that when you go to register it with Metro, they don't seize it? Without the BOS and some ID on the seller would you be left holding the bag with no recourse to get your money back?
Just curious how to handle that kind of situation.

Thanks

That's an excellent question. I've never been tempted to buy a handgun from a seller that I didn't personally know or have someone vouch for.

It is quite common for sellers and buyers to conduct the transfer together at the police station. This is the route I would go, and there would be no need for the seller to retain any of my personal information, just my cash.
 

mp06011999

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That's an excellent question. I've never been tempted to buy a handgun from a seller that I didn't personally know or have someone vouch for.

It is quite common for sellers and buyers to conduct the transfer together at the police station. This is the route I would go, and there would be no need for the seller to retain any of my personal information, just my cash.

Thanks. I guess I would leave it upto the seller then how they wanted to do it as far as their info. I'll stay present and share what I feel I have to, but not more.

I did my first private seller handgun purchase from a total stranger the other day. He didn't want to wait around for me to do the Metro thing so he gladly gave me several pieces of personal information including pics. I felt it all too intrusive (on him), but it was his call and he was fine with it. I did show him a recent Blue Card of mine and my ID as proof that I most likely wasn't a felon. However, my principals were greatly challenged that day by all that.

Privacy seems to be the hardest "right" to hang onto these days. Too many people think that you're upto no good if you simply wish to not share. Not share is another way of saying "hide". BUT when you hear "something-to-hide" people think you're up to no good. No, perhaps I just like my privacy. Afterall, it IS just a natural human right, the right to privacy. That seems to be a right we have surely lost :-(

My dad always used to tell me (and he was a cop), "Never tell people your business as it will never do YOU any good."
 

Vegassteve

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I did show him a recent Blue Card of mine and my ID as proof that I most likely wasn't a felon. However, my principals were greatly challenged that day by all that.

Even showing a blue card is a sham though. Because the gun you are showing the card for you may not even have any more. Or you could be a felon and still have a blue card from when you owned a gun.

Just more reasons to get rid of the blue card.
 

mp06011999

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Even showing a blue card is a sham though. Because the gun you are showing the card for you may not even have any more. Or you could be a felon and still have a blue card from when you owned a gun.

Just more reasons to get rid of the blue card.

I agree. It's a blue card from late September so I thought it to be a "good" indicator to him that I was okay. I'd NEVER bought a handgun from a stranger before and didn't really know what to do. I was worried about buying a hot gun so I asked for lots of info and pictures from him. I even took pics of his car & plate.

I should have just insisted we walk into the cop shop together. BUT, as it turned out, not only did he not wanna spend that kind of time, but the cop shop was closed for NV Day anyway. Didn't know til I walked upto the door. I sure didn't wanna go back another day.

It was a great deal that I didn't want to let get by me. He has sold several this way and was completely cool with everything. All worked out in the end.
 

Vegassteve

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I agree. It's a blue card from late September so I thought it to be a "good" indicator to him that I was okay. I'd NEVER bought a handgun from a stranger before and didn't really know what to do. I was worried about buying a hot gun so I asked for lots of info and pictures from him. I even took pics of his car & plate.

I should have just insisted we walk into the cop shop together. BUT, as it turned out, not only did he not wanna spend that kind of time, but the cop shop was closed for NV Day anyway. Didn't know til I walked upto the door. I sure didn't wanna go back another day.

It was a great deal that I didn't want to let get by me. He has sold several this way and was completely cool with everything. All worked out in the end.

Sucks that this is only a issue in clark co. We have got to get this blue card gone.
 

mp06011999

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NO more blind obedience

Thanks. I guess I would leave it upto the seller then how they wanted to do it as far as their info. I'll stay present and share what I feel I have to, but not more.

I did my first private seller handgun purchase from a total stranger the other day. He didn't want to wait around for me to do the Metro thing so he gladly gave me several pieces of personal information including pics. I felt it all too intrusive (on him), but it was his call and he was fine with it. I did show him a recent Blue Card of mine and my ID as proof that I most likely wasn't a felon. However, my principals were greatly challenged that day by all that.

Privacy seems to be the hardest "right" to hang onto these days. Too many people think that you're upto no good if you simply wish to not share. Not share is another way of saying "hide". BUT when you hear "something-to-hide" people think you're up to no good. No, perhaps I just like my privacy. Afterall, it IS just a natural human right, the right to privacy. That seems to be a right we have surely lost :-(

My dad always used to tell me (and he was a cop), "Never tell people your business as it will never do YOU any good."

As a seller....Imagine this. A guy calls you and wants to buy your gun. You meet and take cash and he takes the gun. That's it. Nothing more. No ID swapping, no names, no blue cards - NOTHING but cash and carry. Since you were not required to ask ANYTHING, you have no knowledge if he is a Clark County resident, felon or whatever. You have done nothing illegal...that can be proven. Not unless you have knowledge.

Nowhere in the law does it say that you have to ask, inquire, see, require or know anything about the buyer. All it says is that you cannot "knowingly" do blah blah blah. So, if you do not know, then there is no crime.

AND, there is no such thing as "unregister" of your handgun. If you sell to a non-Clark County resident, he will not be registering it. Therefore, it is still in your name with Clark County. But remember that the blue card has absolutely nothing to do with registration of guns. It is a check on YOU. It was a plan devised to do background checks on residents in trying to find known criminals (mobsters). That is quite simply why there is no such thing as unregistering. They check you out and that was all they needed - a way to do criminal checks on residents - with little concern on what guns you own, kept, have. Tying the criminal background check to a "gun registration" is just the way they make it legal.

Remember, nowhere does it say that you have to ask or verify ANYTHING.

If I'm wrong about the facts (not opinions), please let me know.

As a buyer....I would follow the above example but I would require some proof from the seller that the gun were not stolen just to protect myself from buying something hot. I imagine the blue card would do that.
 

mp06011999

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Not up to the seller

BINGO! I just found it. Read this and then I think it is quite clear that the seller IS NOT liable for the registration in to the buyer's name.

"12.04.080 - Time between sale and delivery of pistol.

When any sale of a pistol is made by a dealer under this chapter, seventy-two hours must elapse between the time of sale and the time of delivery to the purchaser. When delivered, all pistols must be securely wrapped and be unloaded, and must be accompanied by a receipt signed by the dealer, setting forth the name, address, and description of the purchaser or transferee, a complete description of the pistol (including the manufacturer, model and manufacturer's serial number thereof), the date and time of sale, and the date and time of delivery, of such pistol, and advice to the purchaser or transferee if a resident of the county that the pistol must be registered with the sheriff within seventy-two hours."
 

The Big Guy

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12.04.080 only applies to dealers which are located in unincorporated areas of Clark County and any city that has a similar ordinance. That is why it does not hold true in Henderson.
In addition the county ordinance violates state conceal carry law as discussed on here in other threads. "When delivered, all pistols must be securely wrapped and be unloaded". To carry any handgun in this condition, even unloaded, makes you guilty of carrying concealed without a permit, assuming you don't have a CCP, according to state law and therefore it is not enforceable under preemption.

TBG
 
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mp06011999

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So advise your buyer, and you are done. Nice.

That is absolutely correct!

12.04.080 only applies to dealers which are located in unincorporated areas of Clark County and any city that has a similar ordinance. That is why it does not hold true in Henderson.
In addition the county ordinance violates state conceal carry law as discussed on here in other threads. "When delivered, all pistols must be securely wrapped and be unloaded". To carry any handgun in this condition, even unloaded, makes you guilty of carrying concealed without a permit, assuming you don't have a CCP, according to state law and therefore it is not enforceable under preemption.

TBG

That is probably correct.
I started looking further into it after reading TBG's unincorporated clarification and.....when my head started to hurt I remembered what this thread was all about - how to do a private sale of a firearm and what was required. Forget about trying to make sense of laws in this state. I've never seen such inconsistency. BUT, what does seem to be repeated in CC Ord, LV Ord, NLV Ord (whether it applies on a Sunday with a full moon in November of the year of the cat after midnight, I can't answer) is that NOTHING MORE is required of the seller than "notifying" the buyer that he needs to register this thing if he lives in CC. I know, I know, there is probably something somewhere that trumps even needing to do that, but back to the question at hand. Does the seller have to meet at Metro (or make some other arrangements) to "cause" the buyer to register. That is an absolute "NO". See MAC702 quote above and you're done.

Truth be told, I just sold a firearm to a guy. Here's how it went. He wanted to meet at Metro and I refused because I had other things to do. We met in a public place, me open carrying. I told him that I don't know anything about him (and don't want to know) and therefore I can't possibly "knowingly" sell to someone prohibited from owning. He's obviously over 50 and therefore meets the age requirement. I gave him the gun and the blue card with it as proof that it was not stolen, probably, because I never showed him my I.D. He gave me cash. My parting words were, "Enjoy and oh, by the way, if you live in CC, you'll need to register that thing". Done.
From all that I can tell, that was a legal transaction / transfer. I suspected that it was and now, after all these posts, searches and losing even more faith in our leaders that make these laws, I'm most certain it was....I think lol
 
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