Colerain Twp. cops Want Assault Rifles

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R a Z o R wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

They have full-auto M16s in shotgun racks here in Alexandria. So if the SHTF I know how to get one.:uhoh:

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I have gotten to know the county Sheriff . I want his department to be well armed . Full automatic weapons are OK by me .

WTSHTF I am still a law abiding citizen .

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I for one would never want the police to have access to fully automatic or select fire weapons. I personally would like to see even "swat" teams reduced to the same semi-auto firearms that we have access to.

They should have only equal firepower to what we can have--nothing more and nothing less. And if they can have the newest G36 then we should too. If we are reduced to semi-auto rifles then they should as well.

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suntzu wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

They have full-auto M16s in shotgun racks here in Alexandria. So if the SHTF I know how to get one.:uhoh:

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I have gotten to know the county Sheriff . I want his department to be well armed . Full automatic weapons are OK by me .

WTSHTF I am still a law abiding citizen .

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I for one would never want the police to have access to fully automatic or select fire weapons. I personally would like to see even "swat" teams reduced to the same semi-auto firearms that we have access to.

They should have only equal firepower to what we can have--nothing more and nothing less. And if they can have the newest G36 then we should too. If we are reduced to semi-auto rifles then they should as well.

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You too can own full auto and semi auto weapons.

You can buy a full autoM-16, Ak-47, Mac 10, or MP5.

You can get any semi auto rifle that the swat team has.

While a citizen can go out and buy any of these guns... the law enforcement community cannot. They must first ask and request the funds. Locations with tight budgets cannot afford to buy them. This is why David donated money for guns I guess.

It is evident that over the years the law enforcement community has been "outgunned" by criminals adopting rifles. Perhaps to shoot farther and make it thru a vest to better stop the police. This has created the push for law enforcement to get a few riflesout on the street.

The days of Andy Griffith and the streets of Mayberry are long over. Criminals know that Andy now packs a gun and a vest. He also carries a ballistic shield too. So they know that they need to one up him if they intend to stop him from chasing them during a get-a-way.

It is unfortunate that we citizens cannot purchase the newest full auto weapons registered after 19 may 1986. But we still have access to many full auto firearms registered prior to that date.

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LEO 229 wrote:

It is unfortunate that we citizens cannot purchase the newest full auto weapons registered after 19 may 1986. But we still have access to many full auto firearms registered prior to that date.

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Yes, and they only cost us a huge amount of money. Last I checked, you couldn't get a full auto M16 for less than $12,000. With a department letterhead, it's more like $1,000

We may still "technically" be able to get them but almost all of us are priced out of the market.

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Brass Magnet wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

It is unfortunate that we citizens cannot purchase the newest full auto weapons registered after 19 may 1986. But we still have access to many full auto firearms registered prior to that date.

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Yes, and they only cost us a huge amount of money. Last I checked, you couldn't get a full auto M16 for less than $12,000. With a department letterhead, it's more like $1,000

We may still "technically" be able to get them but almost all of us are priced out of the market.

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While some full auto guns are very popular and priced high... you can also get a full auto Mac 10 for around $3000.

The main point was cancelling the argument that you could not have a full auto firearm... making it appear that only the cops could have them.

I am aware that many departments have AR-15 rifles and not M-16's. Those that do have the "M-16" model.. have had thefull auto sear removed rendering it a semi auto gun.

The purpose is to give the street cop a rifle so he can defend against criminals using rifles. There is no need to pray and spray. A cop in an urban setting needs to know where every round is going.

Very few members of any law enforcement agency have full auto guns. So this argument is kinda pointless.

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LEO 229 wrote:

Brass Magnet wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

It is unfortunate that we citizens cannot purchase the newest full auto weapons registered after 19 may 1986. But we still have access to many full auto firearms registered prior to that date.

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Yes, and they only cost us a huge amount of money. Last I checked, you couldn't get a full auto M16 for less than $12,000. With a department letterhead, it's more like $1,000

We may still "technically" be able to get them but almost all of us are priced out of the market.

Click to expand...

While some full auto guns are very popular and priced high... you can also get a full auto Mac 10 for around $3000.

The main point was cancelling the argument that you could not have a full auto firearm... making it appear that only the cops could have them.

I am aware that many departments have AR-15 rifles and not M-16's. Those that do have the "M-16" model.. have had thefull auto sear removed rendering it a semi auto gun.

The purpose is to give the street cop a rifle so he can defend against criminals using rifles. There is no need to pray and spray. A cop in an urban setting needs to know where every round is going.

Very few members of any law enforcement agency have full auto guns. So this argument is kinda pointless.

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Not trying to make an argument; just pointing out that they are prohibitively expensive for the common man, even at$3,000. (I spent 2,150 on a Browning 625 sporting and it took me years to bring myself to spend the money)

AFAIK, Most mid to large cities have full auto's for their SWAT and normal AR-15's for the duty guys. One of my friends works on some SWAT guns here in Wisconsin and they are full auto.

I have no problem whatsoever with the street cop getting an AR-15. In an urban setting though, I would think that a different round other than .223 would be more effective for their needs and less destructive in the case of a miss. A nice semi-auto modeled after a sub-gun like the HK-UMP (USC) for instance. I've got a USC, and it's excellent to about 150 yards.... just about perfect for the city.

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Brass Magnet wrote:

Not trying to make an argument; just pointing out that they are prohibitively expensive for the common man, even at$3,000. (I spent 2,150 on a Browning 625 sporting and it took me years to bring myself to spend the money)

AFAIK, Most mid to large cities have full auto's for their SWAT and normal AR-15's for the duty guys. One of my friends works on some SWAT guns here in Wisconsin and they are full auto.

I have no problem whatsoever with the street cop getting an AR-15. In an urban setting though, I would think that a different round other than .223 would be more effective for their needs and less destructive in the case of a miss. A nice semi-auto modeled after a sub-gun like the HK-UMP (USC) for instance. I've got a USC, and it's excellent to about 150 yards.... just about perfect for the city.

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Cool.... and I agree... they are very expensive. I do not advocate on making guns expensive to keep them out of the hands ofcriminals but it seems that the expensive and registered guns are not knowingly used in crimes or stolen. Those that buy them lock them up.

That $3,000, $15,000, or $20,000 machine gun is not cheap and because it is so valuable... they protect them unlike many other gun owners.

Imagine of they were cheap.... gang bangers could be using them if they could get their hands on them. Sure, they can get the illegally modified version. But it is not easy to find a guy willing to sell such a product.

But... the unfortunate drive by shootings are semi auto version. So they have to make more of an effort pulling the trigger more often while they hit everything but what they are aiming at.

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LEO 229 wrote:

Brass Magnet wrote:

Not trying to make an argument; just pointing out that they are prohibitively expensive for the common man, even at$3,000. (I spent 2,150 on a Browning 625 sporting and it took me years to bring myself to spend the money)

AFAIK, Most mid to large cities have full auto's for their SWAT and normal AR-15's for the duty guys. One of my friends works on some SWAT guns here in Wisconsin and they are full auto.

I have no problem whatsoever with the street cop getting an AR-15. In an urban setting though, I would think that a different round other than .223 would be more effective for their needs and less destructive in the case of a miss. A nice semi-auto modeled after a sub-gun like the HK-UMP (USC) for instance. I've got a USC, and it's excellent to about 150 yards.... just about perfect for the city.

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Cool.... and I agree... they are very expensive. I do not advocate on making guns expensive to keep them out of the hands ofcriminals but it seems that the expensive and registered guns are not knowingly used in crimes or stolen. Those that buy them lock them up.

That $3,000, $15,000, or $20,000 machine gun is not cheap and because it is so valuable... they protect them unlike many other gun owners.

Imagine of they were cheap.... gang bangers could be using them if they could get their hands on them. Sure, they can get the illegally modified version. But it is not easy to find a guy willing to sell such a product.

But... the unfortunate drive by shootings are semi auto version. So they have to make more of an effort pulling the trigger more often while they hit everything but what they are aiming at.

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Ahem - see the thread I started, "Da Bump". Someome using the (completely legal) "bumpfire" method can with a little practice obtain aimed shoulder level "semi auto" fire at rates that approxximate full-auto. Dont believe it? go to YouTube and search for "Bump fire AK47". Didn't they tell you this at the academy??

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Alexcabbie wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

But... the unfortunate drive by shootings are semi auto version. So they have to make more of an effort pulling the trigger more often while they hit everything but what they are aiming at.

Click to expand...

Ahem - see the thread I started, "Da Bump". Someome using the (completely legal) "bumpfire" method can with a little practice obtain aimed shoulder level "semi auto" fire at rates that approxximate full-auto. Dont believe it? go to YouTube and search for "Bump fire AK47". Didn't they tell you this at the academy??

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Ahem!! I am very aware what bump firing is. One of my hobbies happens to be machine guns so I have been around long enough to have eventually been exposed to the world of bump firing. I will also have you know that one citizen allegedlyregistered a shoe string as a class III item so that he could legally bump fire when the ATF was flip flopping on the legality of doing it.

Bump firing is really no different than pulling the trigger again and again. Bumpfiring is just not as accurate and aiming almost impossible.

Are you asserting that drive by shooting are taking place by people who know about and deploy this method of shooting?

And to answer your question... No.. they did not teach it at the academy. Bump firing was not that popular till long after. But then.. why would they even need to teach it. It makes no difference if you are shooting a gun in that manner. If it is done in public or at people.. I suspect more serious crimes will come into play, right?

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I was NOT implying that police academies "taught" bump-fire. I was wondering if they did not teach you that you may be facing an idiot employing it.. At the USAF Security Police Academy we were taught about "pump firing" a riot gun and told NEVER to do it as there was never an SP named "Shotgun Slade". And usually bumpfire is not accurate, but when did the goblins ever really care about accuracy?? That's why I have often said that if you put me up against some gangsta with a double-stack 9 at 10 paces and let him open fire I could probably kill him before one of his shots hit me, me being armed with one bullet in a revolver. Ever seen how these punks wield a pistol? Sheesh.

But shoulder level bumpfire with an AK is fairly easy to accomplish and the drive-by idiots can use it to spray large quantities of ammo into a crowd with little regrd for human life, thus obliterating any real benefit of outlawing FA weapons or controllling them beyond what an ordinary semi is controlled.

I presume you know that when these animals go out to rob, etc; they do NOT say "let's take down a cabbie" or "let's knock over a gas station" etc. They say: Hey, let's go get paid". Like I have their money in my pocket and they are just harvesting, and if they have to kill to get it my dead body means less to them than a cornstlalk means to a farmer after a trip thru the combine.

About 15 years ago a young woman was shot to death in Crystal City after she ran from 3 Southeasdt DC dudes who tried to carjack her. They shot her in the back and took her purse. When they were caught, the Arlington County Homicide/Robbery people asked one of them what happened. His answer? "Well, we was broke, so we decided to take the subway into Crystal City to get some money". :shock: How %^$&ing appalling is that? And yet some folks still insist that it is firearms that are the problem. Incredible.:banghead:

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I keep having these sick fantasies that we will get more machine guns legally available someday. But I also keep hoping for an honest government...

That said I'm still kicking myself for 10 years ago not buying a MAC10 with a silencer on the same form for $1500 when I was in Texas. 9mm and .45 uppers too. Oh well, one makes mistakes...

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Alexcabbie wrote:

I was NOT implying that police academies "taught" bump-fire. I was wondering if they did not teach you that you may be facing an idiot employing it.. At the USAF Security Police Academy we were taught about "pump firing" a riot gun and told NEVER to do it as there was never an SP named "Shotgun Slade". And usually bumpfire is not accurate, but when did the goblins ever really care about accuracy?? That's why I have often said that if you put me up against some gangsta with a double-stack 9 at 10 paces and let him open fire I could probably kill him before one of his shots hit me, me being armed with one bullet in a revolver. Ever seen how these punks wield a pistol? Sheesh.

But shoulder level bumpfire with an AK is fairly easy to accomplish and the drive-by idiots can use it to spray large quantities of ammo into a crowd with little regrd for human life, thus obliterating any real benefit of outlawing FA weapons or controllling them beyond what an ordinary semi is controlled.

I presume you know that when these animals go out to rob, etc; they do NOT say "let's take down a cabbie" or "let's knock over a gas station" etc. They say: Hey, let's go get paid". Like I have their money in my pocket and they are just harvesting, and if they have to kill to get it my dead body means less to them than a cornstlalk means to a farmer after a trip thru the combine.

About 15 years ago a young woman was shot to death in Crystal City after she ran from 3 Southeasdt DC dudes who tried to carjack her. They shot her in the back and took her purse. When they were caught, the Arlington County Homicide/Robbery people asked one of them what happened. His answer? "Well, we was broke, so we decided to take the subway into Crystal City to get some money". :shock: How %^$&ing appalling is that? And yet some folks still insist that it is firearms that are the problem. Incredible.:banghead:

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I hear ya.... there will always be apeople that want something for nothing. They want money but do not want to have to go to work. This keeps me employed.

People are simply ATM machines that will dispense cash when they ask for it. Their ATM card is a gun. The PIN number is "R O B B E R Y"

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double tap

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No, no, no LEO229. What keeps you employed is the tyranny of the state that requires armed thugs to keep enforcing their will against the helpless citizens they are oppressing. Or don't you read this forum?

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sv_libertarian wrote:

No, no, no LEO229. What keeps you employed is the tyranny of the state that requires armed thugs to keep enforcing their will against the helpless citizens they are oppressing. Or don't you read this forum?

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Sorry... you are correct. My head was filled with government propaganda.

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See, you are a victim too.

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What really keeps all LEO over-employed are the leaky pipes of justice that allow the sludge to run back out onto the streets.

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LEO 229 wrote:

Imagine of they were cheap....   gang bangers could be using them if they could get their hands on them. Sure, they can get the illegally modified version. But it is not easy to find a guy willing to sell such a product.

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I don't think gang bangers have any trouble getting fully automatic firearms. They just prefer concealable weapons over using AK47. Drugs are worth a lot of money. A lot of AK47 exist in this world, and a lot of people in this world own real AK47 even in countries where nobody is legally allowed to own any guns at any price.

Besides, they'll just waste their ammo faster if they are using full auto. If someone really wanted to maximize the number of bystanders shot wouldn't they want to aim each shot?

But... the unfortunate drive by shootings are semi auto version. So they have to make more of an effort pulling the trigger more often while they hit everything but what they are aiming at.

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I guess the poor drive by shooters who cannot afford fully automatic firearms will have to settle for a drive by that lasts a few seconds longer.

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What I want to know is where the gang bangers are finding the ammo for their ammo dumping drive by.

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Speaking of drugs, prohibition, and the predictable you-would-have thought-the-Volstead-Act-might-have-taught-us-something violence and gangs etc. resulting, SCOTUS offered a glimmer of hope recently when Antonin Scalia - much to my surprise - joined the majority in ruling that a "certificate of analysis" from a forensics lab is not acceptable in a criminal trial, but rather the tech who actually did the analysis must be presented along with the evidence for examination. The howls from the DEA and various narcs must have been audible on Mars. HORRORS! You mean the accuser must actually have to face the accused? You mean a critical witness cannot just "phone it in"?. Why, we will be paying lab techs too much overtime there is not enough money blahblahblah, the same old canards, if we don't have drug laws everybody will be doping themselves up and the police cannot test for drugs so what about drugged drivers, etc.

Really?

FACT: The reason junkies steal and rob is because drugs cost so much. And why do they cost so much? because they are illegal. An ounce of the highest grade marijuana is worth currently about $800. AN OUNCE!! That is a POWERFUL incentive for violent people to supply it. At least this is what I understand, having not smoked pot in about 25 years. Face it, drugs produced legally are stone-ass cheap. Remove the profit, remove the crime and violence.

FACT: Although it is true that legalizing "recrreational drugs" will increase their use, those who would use them if legal but do not because of the current illegal status are already for the most part alcohol and/or prescription drug abusers. Give me a kilo of heroin and if I don't flush it I will maybe use it for a doorstop.

FALLACY: Legalizing drugs will make it harder for police to arrest intoxicaated drivers because there is no roadside or stationhouse breath test for other than alcohol intoxication. FACT: The police arrest drivers who are high on dope every damn day and they get convictions just as easily as they get alcohol convictions.

Personally I think that getting the drinking age back down to 18 for beer and unfortified wine (where it belongs) and legalizing marijuana and cannabis products (and taxing them) will go a long way toward taking the profit out of the illegal drug trade and probably moot the point of assault rifles for civilian LE. But that is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

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