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Thread: Beaver County Obama rally open carrier trial takes place today

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    http://www.industrial-lasers.com/dis...Rally_to_Begin

    Trial Over Gun at Obama Rally to Begin
    July 14, 2009 -- By Bill Vidonic, Beaver County Times, Pa.
    Jul. 14--BEAVER -- A trial over an issue that attracted national attention last year -- the right to bear arms -- is scheduled to begin this morning.
    John A. Noble, 51, of Industry will stand trial before Beaver County Judge Harry Knafelc on counts of disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting. Jurors will be selected for the trial beginning this morning.
    State police arrested Noble on Aug. 29 after he was seen wearing a gun near Beaver's Irvine Park, just before a presidential campaign rally there for then-Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
    State police said Noble did not threaten anyone with the gun, a semiautomatic 9mm handgun, and it remained in his holster until it was confiscated as Noble stood at McIntosh Square, next to the rally at Irvine.
    Noble also was carrying the gun legally, state police said; it was properly registered and did not violate the state's open-carry law, under which someone does not need a permit to carry a weapon in plain sight.
    However, in charging Noble, state police said they believed he intended to cause a disruption at the rally, posting on a Web site several days earlier that he was taking his gun to the rally to "test what would happen."
    The sight of him carrying a weapon "created a public alarm," according to a criminal complaint filed against Noble by state police trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre.
    Federal authorities said they would not charge Noble because he did not try to pass through metal detectors erected in Irvine Park to screen people attending the rally.
    TRIGGERING DEBATE
    Noble's arrest sparked a debate, with gun advocates saying that prosecutors were trampling on his right to bear arms, while others said he should not have taken the gun to the rally.
    Noble said last year that he never intended to disrupt the rally, but that Obama's constitutional rights didn't trump his own.
    Defense attorney Stephen Colafella would not comment on the case Monday afternoon. Testimony is expected to last about a day.
    Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com.
    COURTHOUSE SECURITY
    Beaver County Sheriff George David said there will be additional security on hand for the trial of John Noble, who is charged with disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting. Noble, of Industry, is accused of bringing a gun to an Aug. 29 presidential campaign rally in Beaver for then-Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
    David said two deputies, along with a ranking officer, will be posted at the two entrances to the county courthouse.
    Firearms are banned from the courthouse, David said. Anyone who has a weapon will be required to leave it in a gun locker at the entrances. Any visitors will also be required to pass through a metal detector. Both security measures have been in effect for several years.
    Extra security will also be on hand inside Beaver County Judge Harry Knafelc's courtroom, David said.

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    http://kdka.com/politics/John.Noble....2.1085210.html

    Jul 14, 2009 4:07 pm US/Eastern
    Man To Stand Trial After Taking Gun To Obama Rally
    BEAVER (KDKA) ―




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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Well, he wrote that he wanted to see what happened. Guess he found out. Interesting that while everyone involved admit that nothing he was doing was against the law they still say he alarmed the public and cite that for his arrest. That should never have happened. The public who were alarmed should have been told that they had the option to leave if they were so upset.

    Let's have some fun with this, shall we. Suppose he was arrested for alarming the public for doing something else that is legal such as wearing a ...hat. Yeah, let's do that.

    Mike wrote:
    http://www.industrial-lasers.com/dis...Rally_to_Begin

    Trial OverHat at Obama Rally to Begin
    July 14, 2009 -- By Bill Vidonic, Beaver County Times, Pa.
    Jul. 14--BEAVER -- A trial over an issue that attracted national attention last year -- the right toWear a Hat-- is scheduled to begin this morning.
    John A. Noble, 51, of Industry will stand trial before Beaver County Judge Harry Knafelc on counts of disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting. Jurors will be selected for the trial beginning this morning.
    State police arrested Noble on Aug. 29 after he was seen wearing ahat near Beaver's Irvine Park, just before a presidential campaign rally there for then-Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
    State police said Noble did not threaten anyone with the hat, afelt Stetson cowboy style hat, and it remained on his head until it was confiscated as Noble stood at McIntosh Square, next to the rally at Irvine.
    Noble also waswearing the hatlegally, state police said; it was properlycreased and did not violate the state'sgarment law, under which someone does not need a permit towear a cowboy hatin plain sight.
    However, in charging Noble, state police said they believed he intended to cause a disruption at the rally, posting on a Web site several days earlier that he was taking hishat to the rally to "test what would happen."
    The sight of himwearing a hat"created a public alarm," according to a criminal complaint filed against Noble by state police trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre.
    Federal authorities said they would not charge Noble because he did not try to pass through metal detectors erected in Irvine Park to screen people attending the rally.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    We see sights of men wearing guns all the time. Its called our law enforcement and military personnel. Ridiculous reasoning that the sight of a gun causes panic. I don't panic when I see LEO walking around with an exposed fire arm, I do feel alarmed when they remove them and point them at your head.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    yale wrote:
    Well, he wrote that he wanted to see what happened. Guess he found out.
    Did he really write anything or is this more LEO BS?

    Sounds to me like he was passing out literature. We've done that at 3 OC's in Ohio. Once again law abiding citizens are held prisoner by corrupt LEO. How can he be charged with anything for doing nothing illegal? This is clearly a malicious prosecution.

    rDigital was charged with 'failure to notify' after he was stopped for mistaken idenity. (you have to notify your carrying in ohio). Once their mistake was realized the LEO were over heard on their dash cam conspiring to find something to charge him with. (08-2008 / 07-2009) He was found 'Not Guility'.

    The real criminals are still out there passing out tickets. NO CONSEQUENCES....

    Just which organization is working on stopping this? I want to donate some cash.

    I have confidence Mr. Noble will be back passing out literature soon out of his new city bought truck.

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    They're gonna have extra security for a disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting trial? Aren't those misdermeaners? I wonder what they woulddo if they were trying him for opening fire on the crowd with a M60?



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    extra security at the doors? anyone see a railroad job coming down?

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Interesting that the news article lied about the events in question, starting with the title: "Trial Over Gun at Obama Rally to Begin". It's my understanding that Jack was not at the Obama rally; that he was in an adjacent park across the street. In the text of the article the author changed "at" to "near". Creep crawl creep. After poisoning the minds of his readers against Jack, he then tries to show objectivity. What a scholar!

    MD

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    yale wrote:
    Well, he wrote that he wanted to see what happened. Guess he found out. Interesting that while everyone involved admit that nothing he was doing was against the law they still say he alarmed the public and cite that for his arrest. That should never have happened. The public who were alarmed should have been told that they had the option to leave if they were so upset.

    Let's have some fun with this, shall we. Suppose he was arrested for alarming the public for doing something else that is legal such as wearing a ...hat. Yeah, let's do that.
    I have read the Constitution and it says no where that the people have "a right to be alarmed/afraid"

    I have seen however that it is written--and written clearly that the people have the right to keep and bear arms...

    I keep forgetting however that many people seem to think that only the government has a "right" to keep and bear arms--the people simply cannot be trusted...just ask the government and they will tell you.



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    Anybody able to find an update on this? I was expecting it to be a pretty brief trial with some sort of resolution by now.

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    Closing arguments Thursday morning, 9:30AM, then the verdict.

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    As the thread is over 135 pages long, you might want to catch it here: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-page-135.html

    During the time I was at the courthouse on Tuesday, the "Officials" were very polite and professional.

    Seems as though yesterday morning went well, but the afternoon ended up a zero-sum total.

    We will see what happens this AM.

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    More news:

    http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...53/detail.html

    Obama Rally Suspect On Trial; Supporters Carry Guns To Courthouse
    John Noble Says He Was Making Point About Guns, Religion In Pa.
    POSTED: 2:48 pm EDT July 15, 2009
    UPDATED: 8:33 pm EDT July 15, 2009



    BEAVER, Pa. -- [/b]A man who was seen carrying a gun near a presidential campaign rally for then-Sen. Barack Obama in Beaver is on trial at the county courthouse.

    John Noble's supporters -- including his daughter -- checked their firearms with courthouse security on Wednesday as they showed up to watch him be tried on charges of disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting.














    "Myself, I don't generally open-carry at all. I concealed-carry, but I decided to open-carry to show my solidarity for John," Tom Williams told WTAE Channel 4's Sheldon Ingram.

    Noble -- who also carried a Bible outside the Aug. 29 rally in Irvine Park -- has said he did nothing wrong by trying to show Obama "that Pennsylvanians do, in fact 'cling to their guns and religion."'

    The 51-year-old man from Industry, Beaver County, was referring to a comment Obama made during another campaign event in April 2008.

    Noble's supporters at the courthouse told Channel 4 Action News that his arrest and subsequent trial were unnecessary and violated his rights.

    "He wasn't in -- or intending to go into -- a Secret Service-protected area," Richard Banks told Channel 4 Action News.

    The criminal complaint filed by state police said that the sight of the 51-year-old Noble carrying a weapon "created a public alarm," and police said they believed he intended to cause a disruption because he had posted on a Web site that he was taking his gun to the rally to "test what would happen."

    On Wednesday, Noble testified that he had no intentions of causing problems at the Obama rally and simply wanted to be a silent protester.

    "I also carry a firearm, and I didn't bring mine that day. In my opinion, that wasn't the time nor the place," said John Atkinson, a Beaver County resident who reported Noble during the rally.

    The trial will continue in Judge Harry Knafelc's courtroom on Thursday morning.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Ah, that last paragraph gets to me. An anti gun gun owner, our worst enemy.

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    Ah, that last paragraph gets to me. An anti gun gun owner, our worst enemy.
    Not much different than the hunters who say that I shouldn't own my AR15 because it has no sporting purpose or the conceal carriers who have swarmed this forum lately and harrassed and insulted those that post here.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    Ummm isnt there a court case for PA that say that wearing a firearms isnt grounds for public disorder I know Wi has one

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    Still trying to figure out why only one person reported him? I would think that everyone he came around would have tried to make their way to LEO...if people felt threatened.

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    PAFOA has locked the thread and it's been hidden from view.

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    PAFOA moderators have cleaned up the thread and brought it back online.

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    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42...3----000-.html


    --> TITLE 42
    > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §1983
    §1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42...3----000-.html


    --> TITLE 42
    > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §1983
    §1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.


    I could be wrong, but seems to me that the guy who reported Noble could be liable for any lawyer/legal fees that make come from this case?



    JW

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    jrwalker wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42...3----000-.html


    --> TITLE 42
    > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §1983
    §1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
    I could be wrong, but seems to me that the guy who reported Noble could be liable for any lawyer/legal fees that make come from this case?

    JW
    I don't think so, at least not based on the 1983 ordinance, which specifies "under color", generally meaning acting under the authority of the government.

    IANAL, but I've read a lot of stuff about 1983 on here before.

    TFred

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    Regular Member edstephan's Avatar
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    NOT GUILTY on Both Charges

    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%

    Ed Stephan


    An Oath Keeper and OC Activist, 1 of the 3%, Ed Stephan

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    edstephan wrote:
    NOT GUILTY on Both Charges

    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%

    Ed Stephan

    That's gonna be a big fat thumb in somebodies eye.

    I'll bet there's going to be some celebrating in PA tonight. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    CONGRATS MTNJACK!!!!

    If anyone on PAFOA starts posting transcripts or other details of the trail, can a regular over there please post a link to the thread in OCDO. I barely can get on OCDO much anymore let alone follow another forum that is so busy. Thanks in advance.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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