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Thread: Open carrier saves lives from mass shooter in Richmond, VA

  1. #1
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    Form today's VCDL.org VA-ALERT:

    --

    ************************************************** ***************************
    1. Open carrier saved lives in Richmond shooting on Saturday!
    ************************************************** ***************************

    Guns Save Lives

    On Saturday, a violent criminal shot a store clerk, had the customers
    in the store lined up, and while reloading his revolver told the
    customers that he was going to kill them all.

    Then a person open carrying a single-action Colt .45 came in and shot
    the criminal in the stomach, saving at least six or seven lives.

    I received a detailed account from a VCDL member who was at the scene
    (but not the person with the .45). One of the things I was told is
    how some of the customers were telling the police that the open-
    carrier was a hero and how he saved their lives.

    If that's not being a first-responder when no one else was there to
    help, I don't know what is.

    Here is the press coverage (and there won't be a word of any of this
    on any of the national news broadcasts):

    http://tinyurl.com/n2m9vq

    Richmond Times-Dispatch
    Two shot in South Richmond store
    By Reed Williams

    Published: July 12, 2009

    A gunman who had wounded a shopkeeper and opened fire on several
    customers was stopped yesterday when another man shot him at the store
    in South Richmond, authorities said.

    The violent attempted robbery took place shortly after 1 p.m. at the
    Golden Food Market at 2701 Jefferson Davis Highway, the same store
    where another man was shot last month -- and only three blocks from
    the scene of another robbery in June that left a shopkeeper dead.

    Owners of as many as a dozen Jefferson Davis-area businesses flocked
    to the scene of the shooting, and many were rattled by such a brazen
    daylight attack, said Councilwoman Reva Trammell, whose 8th District
    includes the Jefferson Davis corridor.

    Trammell, who arrived outside the store shortly after yesterday's
    shootings, described a frenzied scene. One man told Trammell that the
    man who had shot the robber was a guardian angel.

    "Whoever did it probably saved their lives in there," Trammell said of
    the shooter.

    Police did not identify anyone involved in yesterday's shootings.

    The man who shot the robber is a friend of the store owner, and he was
    wearing a holster with a Western-style revolver
    , said Managing Deputy
    Commonwealth's Attorney Tracy Thorne-Begland.

    After the suspect shot the store owner and opened fire on patrons, the
    owner's friend shot the suspect once in the torso, took his gun and
    called police
    , Thorne-Begland said.

    Thorne-Begland said it appeared that the shooting of the suspect was
    justified, although he emphasized that the investigation was in the
    early stages.

    Police said they expect to file charges against the suspect.

    The store owner's injuries did not appear life-threatening,
    authorities said, but the gunman's injuries were said to be life-
    threatening. No one else was hurt.

    Anthony Gregory, who lives near Golden Food, said he was in the store
    about 15 minutes before the shootings, and that while he was there, he
    saw a man with a baby making a purchase.

    Gregory said the owner told the baby, "Welcome to the world. This is a
    dangerous world, so be careful. But don't worry, God will protect you."

    Police Cmdr. Steve Drew said officers had been patrolling up and down
    Jefferson Davis yesterday and recently have bolstered their presence
    in the area. He said it was unusual for a commercial robbery to happen
    so early in the day.

    The previous shooting at Golden Food took place late the night of June
    12. And three nights earlier, a co-owner of the Come and Go Food
    Market, which is about three blocks north of Golden Food on Jefferson
    Davis, was shot and killed in a robbery.

    Authorities said it was too early to know whether any of the three
    shootings on Jefferson Davis are connected.

    A few hours after yesterday's shootings, Said "Sam" Messaf, the man
    who was shot June 12 at Golden Food, was at the store to help another
    man shut down the market.

    Messaf described how he had been helping out at the store June 12 when
    two robbers came inside. One man opened fire, reaching over the
    counter and shooting as Messaf cowered behind it, he said. Messaf was
    shot six times in his legs.

    He said he suffered nerve damage in his left leg and has trouble
    sleeping.

    Trammell said residents and business owners were scared by the recent
    violence but have faith that police are doing their best to stop it.

    "I'm still shook up," Trammell said. "I'm not afraid, but we've worked
    so hard on Jefferson Davis -- so hard in that area to bring crime down."

    --

    http://tinyurl.com/nvo7rp

    Police charge South Richmond man in convenience store shooting

    By Staff Reports

    Published: July 13, 2009

    Richmond police have charged a 30-year-old South Richmond man in the
    aborted robbery of a convenience store that left him and the store
    owner wounded.

    James Grooms of the 2200 block of Chalfont Drive remains hospitalized
    after being shot by a friend of the owner of Golden Food Market at
    2701 Jefferson Davis Highway in South Richmond. Grooms shot the store
    owner and fired at several customers, missing them, in the attempted
    robbery on Saturday just after 1 p.m.

    Police charged Grooms with attempted robbery, use of a firearm, and
    possession of a firearm by a felon. He remains in the custody of the
    Richmond Sheriff's Office while being treated for a gunshot wound to
    the torso at VCU Medical Center. No information was available on his
    condition.

    The attempted robbery was the second time in a month that a shopkeeper
    at Golden Market was shot. Said "Saim" Messaf was shot on June 12. The
    store's owner, who police did not identify, suffered non-life
    threatening wounds in Saturday's shooting. No information was
    available today on his condition.

  2. #2
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    You mean the police was not there to PREVENT the crime from happening? :shock:

    And what is the emphasis on "Western-style" anything? :shock:

    Good news though. Wonder if it will reach cable news media.



  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    This is a wonderful story on so many levels. It would be a shame if it just dies out over the next few days, only to be replaced by some mundane punk-with-a-gun story. Can anyone think of a way to keep this story going by getting it out to a wider audience? I'm sure the NRA will run it is their monthly self defense column, but I'd love to see it in some big city papers or in one of the nationwide TV newsmagazine shows. Dateline NBC did a pretty good show of our picnic in NN and didn't seem grossly anti. Doesn anyone of you know any of their people to see if they'd be interested in doing a story on our dude?

    Just wondering. It would be a good segment and a great story for our cause. On a silver platter...

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    The media doesn't want feel good stories and the police don't want more people carrying either. They will hide the story as much as they can.

  5. #5
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    Police charged Grooms with attempted robbery, use of a firearm, and possession of a firearm by a felon.
    Okay, so where are the charges for attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon?





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    flintlock tom wrote:
    Police charged Grooms with attempted robbery, use of a firearm, and possession of a firearm by a felon.
    Okay, so where are the charges for attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon?
    The mens rea leaked out through the hole in his skin?

    Probably just assembling the case. These charges will keep him in the secure wing of the hospital untilthegovernment can assemble its case completely.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    Why did this topic get moved? It has to do with open carry. It happened in Virginia.

    Just curious....

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    the way they have friggen "old western style" all in bold makes me think clint eastwood with two six shooters and a gun belt with bullets all over it... and spurs... gotta have spurs...

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    vbnative73 wrote:
    Why did this topic get moved? It has to do with open carry. It happened in Virginia.

    Just curious....
    Because it is a hot topic, and of interest to all of us open carriers. It instills in us that what we are doing is right.

    Great job!!!! Hopefully when the dust settles on this we can here from the open carry person himself. Imagine he had not shown up.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    vbnative73 wrote:
    Why did this topic get moved? It has to do with open carry. It happened in Virginia.

    Just curious....
    Because it is a hot topic, and of interest to all of us open carriers. It instills in us that what we are doing is right.

    Great job!!!! Hopefully when the dust settles on this we can here from the open carry person himself. Imagine he had not shown up.
    What he said... and also in case you hadn't noticed, topics in the "Hot Topic" forum are copied onto the front page of http://opencarry.org, so they get a bit more attention from not only our own, but for those folks who "happen by" from some other place in internet-land.

    It's not a bad thing, it's actually a temporary "promotion" to national attention.

    TFred


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    KS_to_CA wrote:
    And what is the emphasis on "Western-style" anything? :shock:


    Well, the 6" single action revolver with a leather cartridge belt and a burlap strap on the bottom of the holster tied to the good citizen's leg might be a reason the police told the media "western style".
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    This is a great article and it gives me hope that when I am in my 40s that america will be an even better country where every state can share the freedom of OC in every state and territory.

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    Good for this guy, and I'm glad the owner will recover, but is a convenience store robbery attempt really a "mass shooter"? Isn't this the kind of hyperbole we usually decry in the media?

  14. #14
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Welcome everyone. Just got back from the Richmond, VA monthly OC dinner where we dined with over 100 friends and family.

    As noted in the article, we have been having trouble in this part of town all summer. Hopefully, this guy was the only, or at least main, culprit.

    I heard the round was .45 long colt. The bg can not feel well.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

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    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yep the BG is ill from acute indigestion brought on from too much lead in his diet:celebrate
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    flintlock tom wrote:
    Police charged Grooms with attempted robbery, use of a firearm, and possession of a firearm by a felon.
    Okay, so where are the charges for attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon?


    I was thinking the same thing.

    And how did this varmit survivegettin' gut shot? In the western movies everyone dies from being gut shot. He aught to be dyin' of gang green right now.

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    KS_to_CA wrote:
    And what is the emphasis on "Western-style" anything? :shock:
    Maybe they figure if they mentioned the "Western" style armament the MSM will pick it up and try to spin it into another "Shootout at the OK Corral" sort of thing. They always accuse us carriers, especially the OC'ers, of being a bunch of crazy cowboys looking for a gun fight.

    Heck they might even try to write it up exagerated like the old "Wild West" novelletes

  18. #18
    McX
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    Now, now......we wouldn't want to trample on the rights of the criminal shooter! He's presumed innocent until found guilty, so then he can take a plea deal, and be back out on the streets, to continue his criminal activities unabated!

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    Regular Member dbc3804's Avatar
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    RedKnightt wrote:
    Good for this guy, and I'm glad the owner will recover, but is a convenience store robbery attempt really a "mass shooter"? Isn't this the kind of hyperbole we usually decry in the media?
    According to the article in today's Richmond paper, the gunman had 8 customers lying on the floor and was reloading after shooting the owner.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...0016/#comments

    Danny

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    I don't understand how this could happen. The BG was susposed to have shot the open carrier first. Doesn't he read any gun forums?

    Then he would have had two guns to finish off the rest of the people.

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    Now that the BG has died from terminal lead poisoning, Lets hope there are no attempts at reprisal from his buddies.

    He got justice as far as I am concerned.

  22. #22
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    KS_to_CA wrote:
    And what is the emphasis on "Western-style" anything? :shock:
    Maybe they figure if they mentioned the "Western" style armament the MSM will pick it up and try to spin it into another "Shootout at the OK Corral" sort of thing. They always accuse us carriers, especially the OC'ers, of being a bunch of crazy cowboys looking for a gun fight.

    Heck they might even try to write it up exagerated like the old "Wild West" novelletes




    I swear Ithink there is an alarming rate of OCDO users whojust type and don't really read.



    "Western style" is a very accurate description of the good guy's rig.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    riverrat10k wrote:
    Just got back from the Richmond, VA monthly OC dinner where we dined with over 100 friends and family.
    Just curious...how did you avoid getting caught in the deadly crossfire? How many guns got drunk?

  24. #24
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    architect wrote:
    riverrat10k wrote:
    Just got back from the Richmond, VA monthly OC dinner where we dined with over 100 friends and family.
    Just curious...how did you avoid getting caught in the deadly crossfire? How many guns got drunk?
    Only problem I saw was an undersized and probably underage HiPoint trying to sneak a beer. His daddy kept him on a tight reign in the holster, though.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

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    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  25. #25
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that the media didn't call for the GG's butt to be hung for shootingthe BGwhile he wasreloading. Poor guy didn't have a chance, don't you know?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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