Funny OC Incident

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I decided to eat lunch at the Holiday Inn buffet on the circle in Dothan today and decided to OC. The hostess took me to my table and my waiter immediately asked a nearby waitress to get him a chair with no arms for me. He said I'm gonna get you a chair with no arms so your gun won't get tangled up. I thanked him and I figured he probably thought I was a LEO, as I often see them eating there. But it was cool of him to do that none-the-less.

I finished my meal and went up to pay and the hostess rang me up and handed me my change, then she said oops I'm sorry I charged you the wrong amount and took the change back, I thought she had rang up something wrong and charged me too much. So she hands me alot more change back and says sorry about that I didn't know you were a police. I said, I'm not! She had the strangest look on her face and I said, it's legal to open carry in Alabama,... oh ok she said, still looking very puzzled. I said, I apologize if thats how it appeared to you, but I'm not, and tried to hand her the money back. She said oh don't worry about it I'm not ringing it up again and laughed. So I got my meal at the nice LEO discount.

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That's awesome Diagnosis, the chair thing and the waitress is now educated that open carry is legal in Al. all because of you. Thanks for topic post, that was very informative. Oh one thing, be careful some of the restaurants inside Holiday Inns use to sell alcohol in them, don't know if they do anymore, but as far as I know you can't OC or CC while in a place that serves alcohol. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with the correct Al. Constitutional law.

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I'm not 100% sure either on the restaurants serving alcohol verses a bar. Maybe Kurtmax can clarify. I was under the impression restaurant carry is ok not sure about a bar. Some of these rules may only apply if you are Concealed Carrying don't know about OC.

Either way, at the Holiday Inn they do have a bar thats in a whole different part of the building. The lunch area is basically just a little restaurant with no bar.

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Just be careful on that topic diagnosis, it's not worth losing your rights over. I hate to see another good person lose there gun rights, because of stupid laws.

No one in our country seems to really understand "shall not be infringed" do they.

I love the 2ND, there can't be a 1rst without the second.:celebrate

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I'm not sure if it's different in different counties, but in Mobile county, it says nothing about it being illegal to carry in a bar or any establishment that serves alcohol... only that you cannot CC while consuming alcohol.

I also will yield to the guys on here that are more well versed in the AL state laws, but that's what I've seen in Mobile.

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There is no state or federal law prohibiting handgun carry in a bar. There cannot be any local law (see CoA 11-45-1.1). Alabama has one of the strongist preemption statues in the US. A locality cannot even pass laws about handguns that mirror state laws. This has already been tested in court (I can't remember the case name, but if someone is interested I can dig it up).

A Sheriff, however, can put location restrictions on a qualified pistol permit. So if your Sheriff has issued you a qualified permit with a location restriction for bars, you cannot carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state. Conversely if you have an unlimited license, or a qualified license without a bar restriction, you can carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state (even if the Sheriff of the county the bar resides in issues qualified permits with a bar restriction).

You can always carry unconcealed in a bar, wether you have a pistol permit (qualified or unlimited) or not.

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Same thing happened to me a lil while ago at Denny's. My friend and I had separate checks. Told my friend I would take care of it. Manager only rang up one of the checks. Asked him why and he said because I was a police officer. Told him I wasn't and offered to pay for the other check. He said that's okay don't worry about it.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

There is no state or federal law prohibiting handgun carry in a bar. There cannot be any local law (see CoA 11-45-1.1). Alabama has one of the strongist preemption statues in the US. A locality cannot even pass laws about handguns that mirror state laws. This has already been tested in court (I can't remember the case name, but if someone is interested I can dig it up).

A Sheriff, however, can put location restrictions on a qualified pistol permit. So if your Sheriff has issued you a qualified permit with a location restriction for bars, you cannot carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state. Conversely if you have an unlimited license, or a qualified license without a bar restriction, you can carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state (even if the Sheriff of the county the bar resides in issues qualified permits with a bar restriction).

You can always carry unconcealed in a bar, wether you have a pistol permit (qualified or unlimited) or not.

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wow kurtmax_0 haven't heard of this before, if you can check and see what you can find out about mobile. Thanks again.

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It doesn't matter what the law is in Mobile. If it involves handguns it's moot. Here in Auburn there is a city ordinance that prohibits carrying weapons on city property. By law, it can't affect handguns, nor have I seen any enforcement on handguns.

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so your saying I can carry into a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol, so long as I don't consume Alcohol, then everything should be fine regardless of my county that I reside in.

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You can even consume alcohol. There is no law against being intoxicated while carrying your firearm. Only that you can't be a 'habitual drunkard'.

I wouldn't recommend getting wasted or anything. And if you do have to shoot someone and you had a drink.. it may be used against you. Probably not in criminal court, but you could very well lose a case in civil court. At the same time, however, the Alabama 'shoot first' law should prevent you from being prosecuted in civil court if it's a clean shoot.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

There is no state or federal law prohibiting handgun carry in a bar. There cannot be any local law (see CoA 11-45-1.1). Alabama has one of the strongist preemption statues in the US. A locality cannot even pass laws about handguns that mirror state laws. This has already been tested in court (I can't remember the case name, but if someone is interested I can dig it up).

A Sheriff, however, can put location restrictions on a qualified pistol permit. So if your Sheriff has issued you a qualified permit with a location restriction for bars, you cannot carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state. Conversely if you have an unlimited license, or a qualified license without a bar restriction, you can carry concealed inside a bar anywhere in the state (even if the Sheriff of the county the bar resides in issues qualified permits with a bar restriction).

You can always carry unconcealed in a bar, wether you have a pistol permit (qualified or unlimited) or not.

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So does this come out of the U.S. constitution or the Al. The pamphlet they gave me when I got my permit says that I cannot consume alcohol while carrying. So would that be void, cause of it being a local law.

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Depends. If you were issued a qualified permit with a drinking restriction; no, you cannot drink while carrying concealed. OC is fine. Although, I think qualified permits were further defined by the AG as place and time restrictions.... the AG ops are not law so don't press your luck.

I'm not exactly sure how a Sheriff establishes a permit as unlimited or qualified. It's never gone to court, but I don't think flyers handed out with the permit would mean anything. If it has restrictions they should probably be listed on the permit. Since the Sheriff may issue multiple types of permits, how do you know which one you have without it being on the permit itself? IANAL so don't listen to me

There is no state law prohibiting intoxication while carrying. And any local law prohibiting carry of handguns while intoxicated is in violation of state law. (CoA 11-45-1.1)

Carrying intoxicated may be a liability, however, if you ever do use your firearm.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

Depends. If you were issued a qualified permit with a drinking restriction; no, you cannot drink while carrying concealed. OC is fine. Although, I think qualified permits were further defined by the AG as place and time restrictions.... the AG ops are not law so don't press your luck.

I'm not exactly sure how a Sheriff establishes a permit as unlimited or qualified. It's never gone to court, but I don't think flyers handed out with the permit would mean anything. If it has restrictions they should probably be listed on the permit. Since the Sheriff may issue multiple types of permits, how do you know which one you have without it being on the permit itself? IANAL so don't listen to me

There is no state law prohibiting intoxication while carrying. And any local law prohibiting carry of handguns while intoxicated is in violation of state law. (CoA 11-45-1.1)

Carrying intoxicated may be a liability, however, if you ever do use your firearm.

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Thanks Kurt, I understand what your saying and what the constition says on that issue. I want press my luck on that. Now obviously if your out you house , then it would be ok , cause it's your property and your home . Right?

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You don't need a permit to carry a firearm on your property.

Also, it's not pressing your luck to carry a firearm into a bar (I forgot the name of the court case... but someone had a murder or manslaughter conviction sent back for a retrial because the prosecution had said it was illegal for him to carry in a bar... which wasn't true).

It's also not illegal to drink while you are carrying a firearm. The only problem you could come across is drinking while carrying concealed if you have a permit that restricts that. If you do, then just unconceal and the permit no longer applies.

I rarely drink outside of my home, but I've had a screwdriver at a restaurant while carrying a firearm. The world didn't end.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

You don't need a permit to carry a firearm on your property.

Also, it's not pressing your luck to carry a firearm into a bar (I forgot the name of the court case... but someone had a murder or manslaughter conviction sent back for a retrial because the prosecution had said it was illegal for him to carry in a bar... which wasn't true).

It's also not illegal to drink while you are carrying a firearm. The only problem you could come across is drinking while carrying concealed if you have a permit that restricts that. If you do, then just unconceal and the permit no longer applies.

I rarely drink outside of my home, but I've had a screwdriver at a restaurant while carrying a firearm. The world didn't end.

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I appreciate your wisdom and knowledge on the subject, and also testing the waters yourself, I do have a permit, but it clearly states that any Leo has the right to take it from me anytime they feel like it, something of that nature. I don't won't that to happen for just drinking a couple beers or going to a bar OC'ing. I would like to be able to walk down a sidewalk late at night, just drinking a beer while OC'ing and not be harassed, although I think that wouldn't happen.

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Only the Sheriff may revoke your license. And only with proof that you are not a 'proper person to be licensed'.

13A-11-75
...
The sheriff may revoke a license upon proof that the licensee is not a proper person to be licensed.

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Nowhere in the code does it give anyone else the ability to revoke your license, or allow the Sheriff to delegate it to 'any LEO'.

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Besides if you are OC'ing the permit should be safely locked in the car
where it is needed. So what will they confiscate?

Just wish I drank so I could try out that part of law. Mine says
unrestricted on front, and then lists restrictions on back.
So I guess I need to make sure the cops tackle me face up.:what:

But mine is worse, I can't do illegal drugs either, so what do I do
with my kommifornia perscriptions?:banghead: I am curious what the experation
date is on medical pot. All the other perscriptions list it on the bottle.
i.e. has it expired when you get out of jail?

But if you read the license carefully, it says the license doesn't allow
you to carry in a "place that serves alcohol. This is the same type of
misleading statement about it not allowing OC. They both are already
allowed even without the license so both 'restrictions' are correct even
though the intent of the sheriff is to fool you into thinking you can't do either.

Would be a great angle to use if the UAB police chief tries to put you in his
squad car. Since he is a drunk you cannot enter his car by law.:lol:

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You gotta remember though, Robert, that every county's permit is different. Nowhere on the Mobile permit itself, or in any of the paperwork included with it does it mention anything about "a place that serves alcohol." Only that you cannot consume alcohol while CC'ing. That's just Mobile though.

Also, Kurt, once again on the Mobile pistol permit specifically, it states that "Your permit can be confiscated by any law enforcement officer for irresponsible behavior." Which is admittedly vague so that if a cop decides he wants to teach you a lesson, he can deem your behavior irresponsible and take it.

Which is also why I always leave my permit in the car like Robert said. That way, it's there when I have to have it (carrying in the vehicle), but the cops have no way to confiscate it if they hassle me for OC'ing outside the vehicle. I am under no obligation to tell them that I have one sitting in the truck!

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dixieborn wrote:

You gotta remember though, Robert, that every county's permit is different. Nowhere on the Mobile permit itself, or in any of the paperwork included with it does it mention anything about "a place that serves alcohol." Only that you cannot consume alcohol while CC'ing. That's just Mobile though.

Also, Kurt, once again on the Mobile pistol permit specifically, it states that "Your permit can be confiscated by any law enforcement officer for irresponsible behavior." Which is admittedly vague so that if a cop decides he wants to teach you a lesson, he can deem your behavior irresponsible and take it.

Which is also why I always leave my permit in the car like Robert said. That way, it's there when I have to have it (carrying in the vehicle), but the cops have no way to confiscate it if they hassle me for OC'ing outside the vehicle. I am under no obligation to tell them that I have one sitting in the truck!

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Good job dixieborne, you can even make a copy of your permit for safety reason's and carry the copy on you in case you CC and leave the legitimate one in your vehicle. So you always have proof on you at all times. But hey, it's just a idea, I don't know if you can really do that or not, but I wouldn't see why you couldn't.