"asked to leave" Best Buy the other day

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This is kinda long, so please bear with me. I'd posted this on another forum, in the Open Carry section, but I think it's worth repeating over here as well.

Still OC'ing b/c the permit *grumble grumble* to CC hasn't arrived yet. Anyhow, with all the good luck and people not noticing, you'd think I was due.

Long story, but we have a 3 week old kitten now that needs to be fed every few hours, so I have to carry her with me when the family all goes out together for any length of time. We had to go to Best Buy today to pick up some DVDs, and then next door to Petsmart to get Kitty formula.

So here I am, OCing, with a tiny kitten in my left arm. Definitely NOT POSING A THREAT, right? One lady from BB rushes up and goes "aww, can I see the kitty?" and then her manager comes up and goes "Weird question for you --" I assumed it was about kitty. Nope. She goes "are you some sort of cop or something?"

I wanted SO badly to give her a smart-a answer, but I couldn't. I think had I said anything but "no, ma'am," it would technically have been impersonating a police officer, right? So I said no ma'am, and she said "well I'm gonna have to ask you to leave, for the safety of our customers."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I of COURSE said "oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't see a notice posted outside, or I would NEVER have walked in!" She said there IS NO NOTICE, and it's NOT STORE POLICY. But of course, I wanted to make a good impression and not be one of those folks to give all OC'ers a bad rep, so I smiled and said "oh, okay,. no problem. Again, I'm sorry if I caused any trouble." She was very nice and then once I was outside, she invited me in again because Mr. Bunny wanted to tell me that since I was going to walk next door, could I please pick up dog food" and she was totally like "oh, just come on in and talk to your husband, it's okay."

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

So, yeah, sadly I don't love Best Buy anymore. I should have gotten her name and the store number for a love letter to corporate, but it didn't occur to me until hours later. Oh well.

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A fellow poster in another state immediately contacted Best Buy's Corporate HQ for their "official policy" in the matter, this is the letter he got from them:

Subject: Re: Best Buy (KMM10205413I65L0KM)
Date: Jul 12, 1:26 PM

Thank you for your inquiry into our policy of 'open carry' of firearms, I have learned a lot about this subject based on your thoughtful question. Best Buy respects the laws afforded to its customers as citizens of the United States. As such, we comply with all applicable laws and statutes and will not ban guns at retail locations.

I briefly researched the laws in North Carolina on your behalf and found that 'open carry' is also legal throughout North Carolina except within the town of Cary, which forbids it by local ordinance. In the city of Chapel Hill, open carry has additional restrictions.

I encourage you and your friend to reach out to your local government, as Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail location unless required to do so by the local government in that area.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions and concerns. I have done my best to cover your question fully, and hope to shed more light on Best Buy's policy.

Best wishes for a beautiful week, Jessica
Best Buy Consumer Relations
62200803

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Which prompted me to contact HQ by phone today, and this is how it all went down.

(For the record, I am 5'4" petite female and I OC a Sig P239, holstered on my right hip. I'm not exactly scary-looking, I wasn't running in the store, waving it around wildly, acting like a maniac and causing a scene. I'm a very quiet, calm person in public. Especially when my 10 year old son is with me, because I understand the responsibility I have of modeling proper behavior with firearms for him.)

Anyhow, here's the latest. For the record, this is the BEST BUY IN CHARLOTTE, off of I-77 and HARRIS. Right opposite the Northlake Mall.
------------------------

I just got off the phone with a supervisor at Corporate. They had to do reserach as well, they thought policy was no weapons at all, but then he saw where it was actually that they go by State & Local Law.

And then he saw another policy that says it's basically up to the discretion of each store manager. So -- he's very sorry, because apparently Jodie (the mgr) was NOT in compliance with State Law by asking me to leave. But if she chooses to post from now on, then I would not be in compliance with State Law by OCing in her store.

But he does feel that she did not handle the situation properly and has generated an email to the store, all the employees, and the district person there, letting them know what happened and that it was not in compliance with State Law, and that I should not have been asked to leave. He was very pleasant the whole time (turns out he's a fan of Mr. Bunny and geeked out when he saw my last name!) and I also said I wasn't in it to get Jodie yelled at or anything, I just wanted clarity. Not that what we spend at BB will make or break the store, but if I'm not welcome, I will shop a store where I am welcome. Otherwise, we'll keep our BB credit card and continue to shop there. Also, where is my 100-inch, flat-screen, hi-def TV? (We both had a good laugh.)

So hopefully it will all be resolved on Thursday when Jodie gets back. Either she will decide to post, or she won't. I did mention that if it was safety that she was worried about, I am an NRA "Sharpshooter" (Yes, I passed the test! Woo!) and have taken all the required classes for Concealed Carry License, plus passed the BG checks to own a firearm. I'm not a thuggy criminal out for no good.

So we'll see where that gets us. I should know Thursday or Friday, I'm guessing.

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Sharis The Bunny wrote:

. But if she chooses to post from now on, then I would not be in compliance with State Law by OCing in her store.

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Technically signs are only mentioned in the concealed carry scope of permit and only apply to CC. We had this discussion in another thread. I don't even look anymore if I am OC'ing. If you are asked to leave there can be a tresspassing issue but the sign does not bear any weight for someone who OC's. Of course during a discussion with management this may not matter to them. Good responses from the higher up's though. OC'ed in BB in Hickory last week and talked to 2 salespeople with no issue.

Mr. Bunny is famous huh? Used to run into that delivering furniture in Charlotte and Raleigh. Check the paperwork, is this who I think it is? Knock on door, sure is.

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I was open carrying today at the best buy in wheeling wv, and was followed around the store by an employee. Everytime I saw him i would just laugh. So i put him to use. I asked if he could help me find what i needed. we browsed thru video games then cell phones accessories and even in the computer dept. i got bored and told him thanks for his help and left. lol I used to be a supervisor at a best buy so i know how they are trained and how they act.



sorry you had a bad experience. But best buy does kinda suck lol I usually go there to see the things i want then buy them online for a cheaper price.

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Sharis The Bunny wrote:

A fellow poster in another state immediately contacted Best Buy's Corporate HQ for their "official policy" in the matter, this is the letter he got from them:

Subject: Re: Best Buy (KMM10205413I65L0KM)
Date: Jul 12, 1:26 PM

Thank you for your inquiry into our policy of 'open carry' of firearms, I have learned a lot about this subject based on your thoughtful question. Best Buy respects the laws afforded to its customers as citizens of the United States. As such, we comply with all applicable laws and statutes and will not ban guns at retail locations.

I briefly researched the laws in North Carolina on your behalf and found that 'open carry' is also legal throughout North Carolina except within the town of Cary, which forbids it by local ordinance. In the city of Chapel Hill, open carry has additional restrictions.

I encourage you and your friend to reach out to your local government, as Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail location unless required to do so by the local government in that area.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions and concerns. I have done my best to cover your question fully, and hope to shed more light on Best Buy's policy.

Best wishes for a beautiful week, Jessica
Best Buy Consumer Relations
62200803

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This has also been discussed on the forum extensively and the OC restrictions in Cary only apply on town property and on the streets/sidewalks. I know there are a good number of us that OC in Cary, does anyone have any experience with our local Best Buy in Crossroads? If not I may have to go over there the next time I feel like being ripped off by a big box electronics store.

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I of COURSE said "oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't see a notice posted outside

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When are people going to stop encouraging stores to post??

if you ask them, they will come.

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abbradsh wrote:

Sharis The Bunny wrote:

I briefly researched the laws in North Carolina on your behalf and found that 'open carry' is also legal throughout North Carolina except within the town of Cary, which forbids it by local ordinance. In the city of Chapel Hill, open carry has additional restrictions.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Cary's ban violates both preemption and State v. Kerner - did'nt some NC folks hold some events there to prove this?

Some folks need to take on this Cary ban and make sure the disinformation stops.

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Mike wrote:

Cary's ban violates both preemption and State v. Kerner - did'nt some NC folks hold some events there to prove this?

Some folks need to take on this Cary ban and make sure the disinformation stops.

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We also have this to deal with. But I have always wondered why the AG got involved in the Chapel Hill laws but not the Cary laws. Basically they cannot regulate OC on private property in Cary but the do on the public property. At least that is my understanding. If that is wrong feel free to correct me.

160A-189. Firearms.

A city may by ordinance regulate, restrict, or prohibit the discharge of firearms at any time or place within the city except when used in defense of person or property or pursuant to lawful directions of law-enforcement officers, and may regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property. Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit a city's authority to take action under Article 36A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes. (1971, c. 698, s. 1.)








§ 153A-129. Firearms.

A county may by ordinance regulate, restrict, or prohibit the discharge of firearms at any time or place except when used to take birds or animals pursuant to Chapter 113, Subchapter IV, when used in defense of person or property, or when used pursuant to lawful directions of law-enforcement officers. A county may also regulate the display of firearms on the public roads, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property. This section does not limit a county's authority to take action under Chapter 14, Article 36A. (1973, c. 822, s. 1; 2006-264, s. 16.)

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chiefjason wrote:

Mike wrote:

Cary's ban violates both preemption and State v. Kerner - did'nt some NC folks hold some events there to prove this?

Some folks need to take on this Cary ban and make sure the disinformation stops.

Click to expand...

We also have this to deal with. But I have always wondered why the AG got involved in the Chapel Hill laws but not the Cary laws. Basically they cannot regulate OC on private property in Cary but the do on the public property. At least that is my understanding. If that is wrong feel free to correct me.

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The word "display" cannot be construed to include open carry in a holster under the NC S. Ct. case of State v. Kerner. In Chapel hill, the City follows State v. kerner by limiting their open carry ban to very small easily concealable guns - hence, normal military sized handguns remain unregulated. trial courts are bound by state v. kerner - not even the legislature in north Carolina may ban open carry or require a permit to do so.

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I had never read Kerner before today. It is interesting as it would seem to argue that the current statute prohibiting carrying in states of emergencies would also be unconstitutional.

I do not see where it says that a holstered weapon is not "displayed", though I would agree with your assessment. If a holstered weapon is "displayed" then the word display would be used in such a broad sense that having a window in a gun shop would also constitute displaying weapons as would things like gun racks in vehicles.

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mekender wrote:

I do not see where it says that a holstered weapon is not "displayed", though I would agree with your assessment. If a holstered weapon is "displayed" then the word display would be used in such a broad sense that having a window in a gun shop would also constitute displaying weapons as would things like gun racks in vehicles.

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The cannon of constitutional avoidance weighs against giving a meaning to words like display that would abrogate or even merely implicate the state constitution - I would argue that a localitiy could ban the "display" of guns in window shops, or the brandishing or flourishing of guns in opublic streets, but not mere lawful carriage in the open.