Anyone Catch "Washington's Most Wanted" Last Night?

BigDaddy5 · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

jbone wrote:

Are you the Officer in the Video?

Nope, not at all. Further, I don't what you decide to do during a traffic stop, as this thread was about. I just said that every action has a consequence. And that consequence can be as much as being frisked, and detained. Or getting a ticket. Or receiving a "have a nice day." It all depends on what you do. If you choose the hardline, then don't expect many breaks, that's all.

MadHatter66 · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

j2l3 wrote:

They are implying that you have to tell the officer you are armed. There is no requirement in this state to do so.

Click to expand...

There is no requirement to do so, however not doing so can often make a big deal out of a non-issue if you had just chosen to inform.

Now, let's take you down a few roads. Lets say you do tell him you are armed. Two things can happen. Either you are given a "ok, just don't make any sudden movements," speech, and then thanked for being respectful. Or you are given a "step out," and a pat down. Your gun is then returned to you. I can tell you the first is FAR more often going to happen.

Now let's go down the road where you don't say you are armed. You give the officer your license. He runs your name, finds out you have a CPL. At this point, one of two things goes through his mind. A) Why didn't he tell me, and B) is he trying to hide that he's armed.

So the officer now has that to consider when he's thinking about whether or not you get a ticket. That thought can often be "He didn't extend me any courtesy, why should I extend him any?"

Now let's say the officer wants to figure out if you are indeed armed, or if you just have your CPL but aren't armed. So he goes back up and asks you. Now you have two options. Either answer truthfully, or lie.

here is the main problem with your argument... Cops dont run for CPL's unless there is a REASON to run them... They dont come up on your drivers, and they dont come up in the WACIC/NCIC system either. The are a separate run through DOL, and I have never EVER run a CPL for a traffic stop. I am a dispatcher, and have run HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of traffic stops. So you argument of "if he runs you for a CPL" doesnt hold any water. Even is he does, for the sake of your argument, a CPL doesn't mean that you are carrying. Kind of like having a drivers license doesn't automatically mean that you are driving.

Black and white execution of the law on your part will often yield black and white response on the officer. That's what discretion is about.

I would take a speeding ticket over a violation of my rights any day

BigDaddy5 · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

MadHatter66 wrote:

They dont come up on your drivers, and they dont come up in the WACIC/NCIC system either. The are a separate run through DOL, and I have never EVER run a CPL for a traffic stop. I am a dispatcher, and have run HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of traffic stops.

No, that's not correct. I don't know how you access through your screens, but on an Officer's MDC/MDT, nearly every system in WA has a simple check-box for CPL, at least for every major department. Unless your system is not set up to access DOL for CPL's, then you are right.

If you want to discuss that aspect further, PM me.

If you want more verification about that, check the thread about the poster's ride-along with Kirkland PD.

jbone · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

jbone wrote:

Are you the Officer in the Video?

Click to expand...

Nope, not at all. Further, I don't what you decide to do during a traffic stop, as this thread was about. I just said that every action has a consequence. And that consequence can be as much as being frisked, and detained. Or getting a ticket. Or receiving a "have a nice day." It all depends on what you do. If you choose the hardline, then don't expect many breaks, that's all.

I don't get the sense of offering. He doesn't know unless you tell, he has no reason to know so why tell, why escalate a simple burnt out left turn blinker stop. The only part of the video were it will come up anyway is the dude had the gun in plain view on the seat. If your Concealed than why offer, the officer is safer with our gun safely stowed. The officer safety stuff is s power play on their part. What if you have no firearm on you and he demands to see your CPL because checks reveal you've been issued one, or you gona show him then also?

sudden valley gunner · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

.......never volunteer information to the so called authorities.....

jbone · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

sudden valley gunner wrote:

.......never volunteer information to the so called authorities.....

+1. Were not criminals, don't' give them reason to treat you like one because you legally carry.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

Lame video full of inacurate information, propaganda (clearly baised information).

There is no obligation to inform an officer of your CCW status. That's an indiviual choice.

A smart person would NOT store their pistol in plain sight. A smart person would NOT store their registration or proof of insurance next to a pistol in their glove box (personally, I keep all documents in my wallet so that's all I would open).

1) never reach for your pistol 2) always obey the police officer -- gee no potential problem with that set of instructions.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 16, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

jbone wrote:

Are you the Officer in the Video?

Click to expand...

Nope, not at all. Further, I don't what you decide to do during a traffic stop, as this thread was about. I just said that every action has a consequence. And that consequence can be as much as being frisked, and detained. Or getting a ticket. Or receiving a "have a nice day." It all depends on what you do. If you choose the hardline, then don't expect many breaks, that's all.

Sounds like you are a cop, somewhere... but based on the above statement, I sincerely hope you aren't.

Having a concealed pistol license is NOT grounds for an officer to frisk or detain a person.

Heck, being armed is not neccesarily grounds for such intrusive behavior.

jbone · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

Dave_pro2a wrote:

BigDaddy5 wrote:

jbone wrote:

Are you the Officer in the Video?

Click to expand...

Nope, not at all. Further, I don't what you decide to do during a traffic stop, as this thread was about. I just said that every action has a consequence. And that consequence can be as much as. Or getting a ticket. Or receiving a "have a nice day." It all depends on what you do. If you choose the hardline, then don't expect many breaks, that's all.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you are a cop, somewhere... but based on the above statement, I sincerely hope you aren't.

Having a concealed pistol license is NOT grounds for an officer to frisk or detain a person.

Heck, being armed is not neccesarily grounds for such intrusive behavior.

Your are as good as saying the consequece for carrying concealed in the vehicle is "being frisked, and detained" if you exsercise your rights under the law, and not offer what is not required. Who is you Chief Of Police, he needs to know this. This is a clear disrepect of the public, whoI am gathering youwork for.

BigDaddy5 · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

Dave_pro2a wrote:

BigDaddy5 wrote:

jbone wrote:

Are you the Officer in the Video?

Click to expand...

Nope, not at all. Further, I don't what you decide to do during a traffic stop, as this thread was about. I just said that every action has a consequence. And that consequence can be as much as being frisked, and detained. Or getting a ticket. Or receiving a "have a nice day." It all depends on what you do. If you choose the hardline, then don't expect many breaks, that's all.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you are a cop, somewhere... but based on the above statement, I sincerely hope you aren't.

Having a concealed pistol license is NOT grounds for an officer to frisk or detain a person.

Heck, being armed is not neccesarily grounds for such intrusive behavior.

...And this is exactly why I don't post here, because every time someone posts something relevant to the topic at hand, it gets misconstrued and taken out of context.

First off, I never said I was a cop.

Second off, this whole conversation is about a traffic stop. You are already detained. The point was whether or not to inform an officer that you are armed. At this point, you have broken the law already. An officer has discretion about whether or not you receive a citation. I've said it several times, everything you do at this point goes into the decision on whether or not you get a citation.

If you feel that "exercising your rights" is more important then letting Mr. Government know you are armed during a traffic stop, then so be it. Just know that you are already detained, and that choice can have consequences. Those consequences can be everything from nothing, to being pulled out of the vehicle due to something articulable you've done...maybe w/o realizing it.

If you feel that informing an officer is you are armed for whatever reason, that gets taken into consideration as well.

PT111 · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

At this point, you have broken the law already.

That seems to have been lost in the conversation somewhere.

jbone · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

First off, I never said I was a cop.

Second off, this whole conversation is about a traffic stop. You are already detained. The point was whether or not to inform an officer that you are armed. At this point, you have broken the law already. An officer has discretion about whether or not you receive a citation. I've said it several times, everything you do at this point goes into the decision on whether or not you get a citation.

If you feel that "exercising your rights" is more important then letting Mr. Government know you are armed during a traffic stop, then so be it. Just know that you are already detained, and that choice can have consequences. Those consequences can be everything from nothing, to being pulled out of the vehicle due to something articulable you've done...maybe w/o realizing it.

If you feel that informing an officer is you are armed for whatever reason, that gets taken into consideration as well.

Good Lord! :banghead:

FunkTrooper · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

I think people put too much importance in laws, laws are not important at all when you consider your own morality, your sense of right from wrong is more important than any law.

Dave_pro2a · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

PT111 wrote:

At this point, you have broken the law already.

Click to expand...

That seems to have been lost in the conversation somewhere.

Because in this country there is a PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE.

And a 'taffic stop' is usually for two reasons 1) fishing 2) civil infraction. We aren't talking robbers and rapists here, and you are NOT guilty until a judge has heard the evidence.

And if someone is stopped for a civil infraction, that too isn't necessarily grounds for frisking.

God is this a remedial civics class!

You know, maybe someone just doesn't want to risk some anti-gun cop violating their rights by seizing their firearm and running a check on it. So it's easier to just excersice your right to shut up.

And to bigdaddy, for every cop who is glad you told him you have a gun, there's another who will get pissed off at you for mentioning it. What are you, clarivoyant? Are you a occupational psychiatrist who can intuit what a cop wants to hear? Are you insinuating that cops are baised and selectively enforce the law so we should play kiss ass, and let them violate our rights, to get off scott free? (just rhetorical questions)

Or do you justsupport the police and media intentionally giving out false information? (not a rhetorical questions)

Dave_pro2a · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

And this is exactly why I don't post here, because every time someone posts something relevant to the topic at hand, it gets misconstrued and taken out of context.

Well, if every time you post here people call BS... maybe the problem isn't them, rather it's you.

ghosthunter · Jul 17, 2009

imported post

I have been stopped a few times. Only gotten two tickets in 30 years. I never declare my firearm.

I would declare ifI were asked to step out, because he would see it anyway and the seat buckle is very close.

Depending on when they stop meI could have 25 firearms in the back.

My humble comment.

deepdiver · Jul 18, 2009

imported post

To notify or not notify is always a lively discussion on the forum when it comes up in thread. In states where it is not required I think the answer is "it depends".

In MO as soon as they run my license they will find out I have a CCW so there is no reason not to inform. Depending on circumstances and where I am I would either do so verbally or by simply handing them my CCW with my DL.

In KY, where I go with some frequency, without a CCW you must carry in the glove box or obviously open. As I typically carry on my body when traveling I would probably hand over my CCW with my DL if pulled over there as well to avoid a presumption that I was carrying illegally if the LEO spotted my sidearm. Circumstances may dictate otherwise.

There are other places I go where there is no duty to inform and cops have a reputation for hassling legally armed citizens. There I would not inform.

So, generally speaking, I don't think there is one final answer to the question. I do not think that is a good idea to take a definitely will/will not inform stance but rather to use that big gray blob in your head to evaluate the situation and make a decision.

FunkTrooper · Jul 18, 2009

imported post

deepdiver wrote:

In MO as soon as they run my license they will find out I have a CCW so there is no reason not to inform.

It's funny I view this the other way around, sense they'll find out anyway to me it's pointless might as well let them find out on there own.

MrGray · Jul 18, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

Reasonable people who carry firearms will tell a police officer they are armed, it's as simple as that.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Because your belief in this claim does not make it true.

MrGray · Jul 18, 2009

imported post

BigDaddy5 wrote:

First off, I never said I was a cop.

So far you haven't said you aren't a cop, either.

Are you a cop?

Anyone Catch "Washington's Most Wanted" Last Night?

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member