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Thread: Hand gun and long gun Open Carry Walkabout Pittsburg - 24-25 September

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Hey Pittsburgers,

    This is a chance to shine. Open carry near the end of September in masse. No rally, just random open carry for two days.

    For those not from Pittsburg, This open carry event will allow us to showthe worldthat open carry is an acceptable part of our culture. Somethingworld leaders should see.

    Why 24-25 September in Pittsburg? I figure we owe the state police one for Mountain Jack!




    Link: http://www.pittsburghsummit.gov/

    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania will host the G-20 Summit September 24-25, 2009. President Obama will chair this meeting of leaders from countries around the world that represent 85 percent of the world’s economy. At the Pittsburgh G-20 Summit, leaders will review the progress made since the Washington and London Summits and discuss further actions to assure a sound and sustainable recovery from the global financial and economic crisis.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member edstephan's Avatar
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    I'm game. Should be fun with the G20 and the suspension of "Rights" in Pittsburgh.

    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%
    Ed Stephan
    An Oath Keeper and OC Activist, 1 of the 3%, Ed Stephan

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Can you carry something besides a G20? I have one but some others don't, so I'm asking on their behalf. :P

    MD

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    Regular Member edstephan's Avatar
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    The Group of Twenty (G-20) Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors will be in Pittsburgh on those dates

    Not Glock 20





    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%
    Ed Stephan
    An Oath Keeper and OC Activist, 1 of the 3%, Ed Stephan

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    Psst, Ed, that was a joke.

  6. #6
    Regular Member edstephan's Avatar
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    At least they could have turned the [/sarcasm] switch on



    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%

    Ed Stephan
    An Oath Keeper and OC Activist, 1 of the 3%, Ed Stephan

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    Wow, what will happen to all those looters and rioters that destroy the
    neighborhood at these meetings?
    Bet the press gives BHO credit for the peaceful summit unlike that evil one he
    replaced burning down Seattle.

    How is the Mtn Jack case going, is it this week?

    If gas hasn't gone through the roof by then I'll drive up. Would feel good to
    dump all that carbon out my tail pipe. But going to hate that new 80mph
    law in Va. Going to need the cruise control for that stretch very badly now.



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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Whyshould we havean open carry walkabout in Pittsburgh?

    1) Because we are free and can


    2) To emphasize the legality of what Mtn Jack did to:

    A) the Pennsylvania State Police,

    B) the Governor,

    C)the President and

    D) the G-20 leaders


    3) Because that black robed &%$#@ called us stupid idiots.

    From PAFOAthread about Mountain Jack:

    Originally Posted by Paradigm
    hiflyrf22 (11:41:36 AM): They're all out now
    hiflyrf22 (11:41:41 AM): mrs mtn jack is crying
    hiflyrf22 (11:41:56 AM): judge called us all stupid idiots
    hiflyrf22 (11:42:53 AM): stupid idiots for OCing
    hiflyrf22 (11:42:55 AM): i assume
    hiflyrf22 (11:42:59 AM): no confirmation

    Link: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-page-218.html
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The purpose of the walkabout is to show world leaders and the international press that we are citizens of a free country. If you are asked why you are open carrying you can tell them it is your right and that your rights are not taken away because others are in town.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I guess I don't see any easy to understand message from this expressive conduct - did the G20 group propose an open carry ban? Not that I know of.

    And as for open carry of long guns in urban areas, this has been discussed here before - highly inappropriate behavior in a 3 dimensional urban environment considering the muzzle control problem and absence of holsters with trigger guards - that's why Justice Scalianoted some of the advantages of handguns in the Heller case, e.g., handguns "can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police." The corollary is that they can be secured in holsters while not in use while you go about your normal business.


    I think there are 2 good bright line rules to consider when thinking about open carrying as a form of expressive conduct: First, will the message be understandable and tailored to achieve a goal? And second, are the circumstances so unique that the police will under almost any circumstance have qualified immunity if they cart you off and possibly subject you to a trial that might bankrupt you?

    I think that if the answer to either question are pretty much in the yes column, then open carrying as expressive conduct in those circumstances is both illogical for you and counter-productive for the cause.

    In the main, the open carry movement is about open carrying while minding your own beeswax in your daily life. Targeted expressive conduct sometimes has value, but can have high risk and be counter-productive too.



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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    I guess I don't see any easy to understand message from this expressive conduct - did the G20 group propose an open carry ban? Not that I know of.

    And as for open carry of long guns in urban areas, this has been discussed here before - highly inappropriate behavior in a 3 dimensional urban environment considering the muzzle control problem and absence of holsters with trigger guards - that's why Justice Scalianoted some of the advantages of handguns in the Heller case, e.g., handguns "can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police." The corollary is that they can be secured in holsters while not in use while you go about your normal business.


    I think there are 2 good bright line rules to consider when thinking about open carrying as a form of expressive conduct: First, will the message be understandable and tailored to achieve a goal? And second, are the circumstances so unique that the police will under almost any circumstance have qualified immunity if they cart you off and possibly subject you to a trial that might bankrupt you?

    I think that if the answer to either question are pretty much in the yes column, then open carrying as expressive conduct in those circumstances is both illogical for you and counter-productive for the cause.

    In the main, the open carry movement is about open carrying while minding your own beeswax in your daily life. Targeted expressive conduct sometimes has value, but can have high risk and be counter-productive too.
    The Message

    Simple enough.

    1) YES WE CAN.[/b] We are free people in a free country. Open carry is a right that is not infringed simply because of a visit from a candidate for a government job or a summit or any other whim of a government official. That was Mtn Jack's message. It bears repeating. Pennsylvania State Police, are you listening?

    2) SHAME ON YOU G20 Leaders.[/b] G20 leaders, while not openly condemning open carry in Pennsylvania, have put in place and enforced tyrannical laws that violate the natural rights of mankind. Remember the 2nd Amendment does not grant us the right to keep and bear arms, it merely confirms a pre-existing right of all mankind. On this I think we can agree and these leaders ought to be reminded that a free nation trusts its citizens.

    Long Guns in an Urban Environment

    1) You are entitled to your opinion, but frankly it sounds very hoplophobic to me. Muzzle control is a complete red herring. Slung rifles (especially if slung Israeli style with the barrel pointed down) do not have muzzle control issues.

    2) Using scabbards, safeties and carrying with an open boltmake for safe carry. They are safer than the open carry of many handguns, with defective or no safety devices such as the CZ 52 or Jennings .25.

    3) Is that a handgun without a trigger guard that I seeon the home page of OCDO?

    Courts and Beeswax

    1) All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

    2) This event is taking place in the same part of Pennsylvania as the persecution of Jack Noble. What happened there was an incredible slap in the face to liberty, freedom and justice. It is a fitting place and time for a walkabout.

    3) The walkabout is all about beeswax. OCers walking about will be outside of the restricted area minding their own beeswax. If law enforcement minds their bees wax it will be a non event. If law enforcement does not mind their beeswax, then there will be problems of course. Law enforcement violation of civil rights will be on U-Tube the same day.

    4) If being “expressive” is a bad thing, then I guess that I have been bad many times. At Waterside, at the Norfolk, VA city council meetings and at many VCDL meetings. The message is the same every time, YES WE CAN[/b].

    Live free or Die,

    Sic Semper Tyrannus,

    Thundar


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Well said.

    A demonstration of open carry in the vicinity of the G20 summit conference has no relevance to that gathering. A more prudent approach would be for legally armed citizens to go about their business with as little attention paid to the summit meeting as possible. OC advocates will not achieve further support by getting in the face of the general public about it. The point has been made previously on the legality of peaceable open carry.

    Tempting as it may be (for some) to "demonstrate" open carry near the site of the G20 summit, common sense would seem to dictate model behavior from model citizens.


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    I can see a bunch more law suits coming out of this one.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Great news. The Pittsburg Post-Gazette has picked up on the Pittsburg walkabout!!!



    Link: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09199/984795-57.stm



    Beaver man who brought gun to Obama rally acquitted

    Saturday, July 18, 2009

    By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


    …….



    Some postings on the organization's Web site called for advocates to demonstrate solidarity with Mr. Noble by openly carrying guns in Downtown Pittsburgh during September's G-20 summit of world leaders.

    (Thundar Clarification: Organization website = OCDO!)

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    TheNikeBusiness wrote:
    Well said.

    A demonstration of open carry in the vicinity of the G20 summit conference has no relevance to that gathering. A more prudent approach would be for legally armed citizens to go about their business with as little attention paid to the summit meeting as possible. OC advocates will not achieve further support by getting in the face of the general public about it. The point has been made previously on the legality of peaceable open carry.

    Tempting as it may be (for some) to "demonstrate" open carry near the site of the G20 summit, common sense would seem to dictate model behavior from model citizens.

    Well Said to you sir.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    For those activists thinking about a walkabout I recommend that you

    1) Buy and become familiar with a voice recorder
    2) Learn how to upload to you tube and other sites on the fly
    3) Learn and become familiar with twitter for mutual updates
    4) Become familiar with the downtown area either online or in person
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member edstephan's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    I guess I don't see any easy to understand message from this expressive conduct - did the G20 group propose an open carry ban? Not that I know of.

    And as for open carry of long guns in urban areas, this has been discussed here before - highly inappropriate behavior in a 3 dimensional urban environment considering the muzzle control problem and absence of holsters with trigger guards - that's why Justice Scalianoted some of the advantages of handguns in the Heller case, e.g., handguns "can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police." The corollary is that they can be secured in holsters while not in use while you go about your normal business.


    I think there are 2 good bright line rules to consider when thinking about open carrying as a form of expressive conduct: First, will the message be understandable and tailored to achieve a goal? And second, are the circumstances so unique that the police will under almost any circumstance have qualified immunity if they cart you off and possibly subject you to a trial that might bankrupt you?

    I think that if the answer to either question are pretty much in the yes column, then open carrying as expressive conduct in those circumstances is both illogical for you and counter-productive for the cause.

    In the main, the open carry movement is about open carrying while minding your own beeswax in your daily life. Targeted expressive conduct sometimes has value, but can have high risk and be counter-productive too.
    The Message

    Simple enough.

    1) YES WE CAN.[/b] We are free people in a free country. Open carry is a right that is not infringed simply because of a visit from a candidate for a government job or a summit or any other whim of a government official. That was Mtn Jack's message. It bears repeating. Pennsylvania State Police, are you listening?

    2) SHAME ON YOU G20 Leaders.[/b] G20 leaders, while not openly condemning open carry in Pennsylvania, have put in place and enforced tyrannical laws that violate the natural rights of mankind. Remember the 2nd Amendment does not grant us the right to keep and bear arms, it merely confirms a pre-existing right of all mankind. On this I think we can agree and these leaders ought to be reminded that a free nation trusts its citizens.

    Long Guns in an Urban Environment

    1) You are entitled to your opinion, but frankly it sounds very hoplophobic to me. Muzzle control is a complete red herring. Slung rifles (especially if slung Israeli style with the barrel pointed down) do not have muzzle control issues.

    2) Using scabbards, safeties and carrying with an open boltmake for safe carry. They are safer than the open carry of many handguns, with defective or no safety devices such as the CZ 52 or Jennings .25.

    3) Is that a handgun without a trigger guard that I seeon the home page of OCDO?

    Courts and Beeswax

    1) All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

    2) This event is taking place in the same part of Pennsylvania as the persecution of Jack Noble. What happened there was an incredible slap in the face to liberty, freedom and justice. It is a fitting place and time for a walkabout.

    3) The walkabout is all about beeswax. OCers walking about will be outside of the restricted area minding their own beeswax. If law enforcement minds their bees wax it will be a non event. If law enforcement does not mind their beeswax, then there will be problems of course. Law enforcement violation of civil rights will be on U-Tube the same day.

    4) If being “expressive” is a bad thing, then I guess that I have been bad many times. At Waterside, at the Norfolk, VA city council meetings and at many VCDL meetings. The message is the same every time, YES WE CAN[/b].

    Live free or Die,

    Sic Semper Tyrannus,

    Thundar

    You forgotone very important point. To show the "leaders" that there is a point We the Peoplewon't take their crap any more and have the power to enforce.



    An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%

    Ed Stephan


    An Oath Keeper and OC Activist, 1 of the 3%, Ed Stephan

  18. #18
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Link: http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...e-at-g-20.aspx

    Wednesday September 2, 2009















    EDITORIAL - Guns everywhere: Firearms in civilian hands have no place at G-20


    When Pittsburgh hosts world leaders coming to the G-20 summit on Sept. 24 and 25, its greatest duty also will be the most basic -- security. It will be an awesome responsibility.

    The Constitution must be respected in the process. It contains such rights of the people as to peaceably assemble and to keep and bear arms. But nothing in that great document suggests that one right is supreme over others. In the famous example, the First Amendment guarantees free speech but that does not permit someone to incite chaos by shouting fire needlessly in a crowded theater.

    The question of competing rights now arises as G-20 legislation moves through Pittsburgh City Council. It would allow police to cite people for wearing a mask or carrying a variety of items such as rotten eggs if police perceive an intent to defy the law. The proposal also lists 37 types of guns that could be actionable. That part of the bill has upset gun-rights supporters.

    We would be the first to concede that the gun provisions are legally dubious, given that in this case -- regrettably -- state law would seem to preempt anything Pittsburgh might enact. Empowering the police to be mind readers of intent is also troublesome. City Council should tread warily when these proposals are discussed in chambers tomorrow and a sunset provision would be reasonable.

    But please spare us those who would make an unreasonable, absolutist defense of the Second Amendment and argue that people have a right to carry weapons anywhere near a meeting like the G-20. This summer, fanatical gun owners have insisted on their right to carry firearms to volatile town meetings or in the vicinity of the president. That is complete lunacy. It is the equivalent of shouting fire in a theater or playing with matches in a fireworks factory.

    If any Joe can carry firearms near the G-20 summit, it would vastly complicate the job of law enforcement. If rotten eggs are banned but deadly firearms aren't, what a sad commentary on gun-obsessed America that will make.




    [line]
    Posted Sep 01 2009, 05:00 AM by Susan Mannella
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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