"Sellers of pistols and revolvers"

TFred · Jul 16, 2009

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§ 15.2-1207 states:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I had no idea this was in the code... does it apply to private sales? Do any jurisdictions have such an ordinance in place?

The previous section, 1206, allows a license tax on dealers, but this one doesn't specify.

TFred

nova · Jul 16, 2009

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TFred wrote:

§ 15.2-1207 states:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I had no idea this was in the code... does it apply to private sales? Do any jurisdictions have such an ordinance in place?

The previous section, 1206, allows a license tax on dealers, but this one doesn't specify.

TFred

without knowing anything else about it, it would seem that counties are allowed to require handgun registration. :?:question:

Wolf_shadow · Jul 17, 2009

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§ 15.2-1208. Same; in certain counties.

Chapter 297 of the Acts of Assembly of 1944, approved March 29, 1944, requiring permits to sell or purchase pistols or revolvers in any county having a density of population of more than 1,000 a square mile, is repealed. Any records or copies thereof that were created pursuant to this section that are in the custody of any county shall be destroyed no later than July 31, 2004. Upon destroying the records, the county shall certify to the circuit court that such destruction has been completed.

(Code 1950, § 59-144; 1968, c. 439, § 15.1-525; 1997, c. 587; 2004, cc. 62, 393.)

Why require destruction of the records of the same type persuant that to the 1944 rule but allow them to be kept under 1950.

virginiatuck · Jul 17, 2009

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Wolf_shadow wrote:

§ 15.2-1208. Same; in certain counties.

Chapter 297 of the Acts of Assembly of 1944, approved March 29, 1944, requiring permits to sell or purchase pistols or revolvers in any county having a density of population of more than 1,000 a square mile, is repealed. Any records or copies thereof that were created pursuant to this section that are in the custody of any county shall be destroyed no later than July 31, 2004. Upon destroying the records, the county shall certify to the circuit court that such destruction has been completed.

(Code 1950, § 59-144; 1968, c. 439, § 15.1-525; 1997, c. 587; 2004, cc. 62, 393.)

Why require destruction of the records of the same type persuant that to the 1944 rule but allow them to be kept under 1950.

§ 15.2-1208 and § 15.2-1207 are different in that 1208 pertains to a law that required a permit to sell or purchase wheras 1207 pertains to reporting the information about a sale after the fact with no permit required prior to the sale.

GWRedDragon · Jul 17, 2009

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TFred wrote:

§ 15.2-1207 states:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I had no idea this was in the code... does it apply to private sales? Do any jurisdictions have such an ordinance in place?

The previous section, 1206, allows a license tax on dealers, but this one doesn't specify.

TFred

Even if some county were to pass such an ordinance, residents would still be able to drive to another county which didn't have it to buy their pistols.

TFred · Jul 17, 2009

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I'm still wondering two things:

1) Does this apply to private sales, and,

2) Since I have never even heard of this before, do any counties or cities actually have such a law on the books? I'm surprised nobody has talked about it here before, at least not that I've seen.

TFred

virginiatuck · Jul 17, 2009

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TFred wrote:

I'm still wondering two things:

1) Does this apply to private sales, and,

2) Since I have never even heard of this before, do any counties or cities actually have such a law on the books? I'm surprised nobody has talked about it here before, at least not that I've seen.

TFred

Does Virginia even regulate firearms dealers? Isn't that all at the Federal level? Couldn't just about any Joe Schmoe be a Virginia firearms dealer if it weren't for the Federal laws?

If Virginia makes no legal distinction between private sellers and dealers anywhere else in the code, then I don't see why this couldn't apply to private sales. The county ordinance could specify whether or not private sales are controlled.

I'm not aware of any counties that have such a law, but there are a lot of counties in Virginia.

casullshooter · Jul 17, 2009

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Any local laws were wiped away with pre-emption. All gun laws that are not Federal must come from the General Assembly.

vt357 · Jul 17, 2009

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Chesterfield County still has it on the books. Is it enforced? I don't know.

Sec. 14-13. Same--Report of sales. Any person engaged in the business of selling pistols and revolvers to the public shall furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after the sale of any pistol or revolver, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports. (Code 1978, § 12-170)

http://library1.municode.com/default-test/DocView/10531/1/86?hilite=range;ranges;#0-0-0-1145

Here's a thread I started on it a couple years ago.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3124.html

I totally dropped the ball and never followed through on checking up on it.

I just sent an email to the Circuit Court Clerk of Chesterfield though. I have been told she is pro-gun so hopefully she can straighten this out for us.

TFred · Jul 17, 2009

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casullshooter wrote:

Any local laws were wiped away with pre-emption. All gun laws that are not Federal must come from the General Assembly.

Well, no... preemption says no locality can make any laws "other than those expressly authorized by statute", and since the subject of this thread is indeed a State statute, I don't think preemption covers it.

TFred

TFred · Jul 17, 2009

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vt357 wrote:

Chesterfield County still has it on the books. Is it enforced? I don't know.

Sec. 14-13. Same--Report of sales. Any person engaged in the business of selling pistols and revolvers to the public shall furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after the sale of any pistol or revolver, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports. (Code 1978, § 12-170)

Click to expand...

http://library1.municode.com/default-test/DocView/10531/1/86?hilite=range;ranges;#0-0-0-1145

Here's a thread I started on it a couple years ago.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3124.html

I totally dropped the ball and never followed through on checking up on it. I just sent an email to the Circuit Court Clerk of Chesterfield though. I have been told she is pro-gun so hopefully she can straighten this out for us.

And interesting again, the Chesterfield statute specifically says "engaged in the business", but the state statute does not distinguish, it just says "sellers of".

This is very confusing.

TFred

LEO 229 · Jul 17, 2009

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In reading the way it is worded and the lack of specific descriptors....

I say it is for any sale. Dealer or private. The intent... I speculate... would be geared towards a registration process to know who owns the gun.

This law would ensure that the new owner of the gun would be known in case they refused to register it after the sale.

nova · Jul 17, 2009

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Perhaps someone can forward this threat to VCDL President if he hasn't seen it already, this would be a good topic of discussion at next week's Annandale meeting.

virginiatuck · Jul 17, 2009

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TFred wrote:

And interesting again, the Chesterfield statute specifically says "engaged in the business", but the state statute does not distinguish, it just says "sellers of".

This is very confusing.

TFred

Here's where "seller" is defined in Virginia code:

Title 8.2 COMMERCIAL CODE - SALES.
§ 8.2-103. Definitions and index of definitions.
(d) "Seller" means a person who sells or contracts to sell goods.

As I said in my earlier post, "[t]he county ordinance could specify whether or not private sales are controlled." Since the State law only specifies "seller," it is entirely up to the county whether they apply it to those "engaged in the business of selling pistols and revolvers to the public", as Chesterfield has done; or whether they apply it to all sellers; or whether they apply the ordinance to any other specific type of seller.

raftgyde · Jul 17, 2009

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"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I find it to be pretty vague. It doesn't specifically say Serial number. Number could be the serial number, the model number, or the quantity of weapons sold.

sccrref · Jul 17, 2009

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raftgyde wrote:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I find it to be pretty vague. It doesn't specifically say Serial number. Number could be the serial number, the model number, or the quantity of weapons sold.

I sold 1 Glock 19 9mm pistol to Mr Smith. I think that this covers all the required info.

LEO 229 · Jul 18, 2009

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sccrref wrote:

raftgyde wrote:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I find it to be pretty vague. It doesn't specifically say Serial number. Number could be the serial number, the model number, or the quantity of weapons sold.

Click to expand...

I sold 1 Glock 19 9mm pistol to Mr Smith. I think that this covers all the required info.

Need an address... :lol:

Skeptic · Jul 18, 2009

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LEO 229 wrote:

sccrref wrote:

raftgyde wrote:

"The governing body of any county may require sellers of pistols and revolvers to furnish the clerk of the circuit court of the county, within ten days after sale of any such weapon, with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold. The clerk shall keep a record of the reports."

I find it to be pretty vague. It doesn't specifically say Serial number. Number could be the serial number, the model number, or the quantity of weapons sold.

Click to expand...

I sold 1 Glock 19 9mm pistol to Mr Smith. I think that this covers all the required info.

Click to expand...

Need an address... :lol:

Would you beleive 1060 West Addison ? :lol::lol:

HankT · Jul 18, 2009

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LOL.

LEO 229 · Jul 18, 2009

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Skeptic wrote:

Would you beleive 1060 West Addison ? :lol::lol:

Is that street, road, court, lane, way, and circle? :lol:

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