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Thread: OT: Carrying in Bar...

  1. #1
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    I know it is illegal to carry concealed or open in bar area where its restricted for under 21 and serve alcohol. My question is what about owner of that Bar and Employee of that bar, can they carry gun on them?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Interesting question. I think because it is their own business they have the right to protect it. Hmmmmmm. I know a few bar employees who are allowed to carry by their employer at work. If it is technically legal, no idea.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I am thinking at this line too that its their private property and they have right to protect it but I am not sure about its legality.

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    As for where to find it in the books, I have no clue. But I would imagine that it is legal. I have been inside many tattoo shops that are off limits to minors and the artists OC to protect themselves and the shop. Lots of cash floating around in places like that. I would have to say it falls under the private property section.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Tattoo shops are not mentioned in the RCW's concerning firearms and not controlled by the LCB so the comparison really doesn't apply.

    However, RCW 9.41.050 says in part "(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shallnot carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol."



    It does not differentiate between bars and other types of business.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Manu wrote:
    I know it is illegal to carry concealed or open in bar area where its restricted for under 21 and serve alcohol. My question is what about owner of that Bar and Employee of that bar, can they carry gun on them?
    Bar owners and their "employees" may indeed carry a firearm in the "restricted areas" of an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premises.

    I carried many times on security details and escorts when I was a security contractor by entering into an "employment agreement" with the establishments owner. We were assured by our lawyers that this was legal because... RCW 9.41.300 states...

    Pay special attention to the highlighted lines.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300
    RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:


    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    (b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;

    (c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

    (3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.

    (b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.

    (4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.

    (5) The perimeter of the premises of any specific location covered by subsection (1) of this section shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public as to the existence of any law restricting the possession of firearms on the premises.

    (6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

    (b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 2626.50.010; or

    (c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.

    (7) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.

    (8) Subsection (1)(c) of this section does not apply to any administrator or employee of the facility or to any person who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises.

    (9) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the proprietor of the premises or his or her employees while engaged in their employment.

    (10) Any person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    (11) "Weapon" as used in this section means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or instrument or weapon listed in RCW 9.41.250.
    RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW




  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Nicely done, I like the highlighted areas. Makes it easier to understand for this particular question.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
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    Thats helpfull FMCDH. Thank you.

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    FMCDH gets post of the week so far.

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    Wow- anybody know when that was added, cause I don't remember reading that even a year ago? I wish I'd known that when I was working at a bar last year...

  11. #11
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    tanman wrote:
    Wow- anybody know when that was added, cause I don't remember reading that even a year ago? I wish I'd known that when I was working at a bar last year...
    Looks like it was added in 1994 according to the foot note at the end of the RCW.

    And you are all very welcome.

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    I was a bouncer in a bar here in Everett for two years and carried every night thanks to that law.

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