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Thread: NICS and rifles

  1. #1
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    Hello, all. It seems that this is the best place to ask. I'm tired of the NICS delay I'm experiencing after attempting to purchase a rifle at a sporting goods store. It has been 10 business days (the check started on Sat, July 4th).

    No answers from the employees, just constant waiting. Anyway, I've read that North Carolina doesn't require registering of firearms. I know any handgun transfer, sale, etc... needs a gun permit, but does this apply to long guns?

    If I privately obtain a long gun from instate or out of state, is this legal?

    I just want to make sure, because if I'm ever questioned, based on what the law says, how would anyone even know where I obtained the long gun?

    It's approaching two weeks I've waited for this supposed Instant check.

  2. #2
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    instate long guns require no check or permit.

    Out of state needs to go through an FFL.

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    donkatec wrote:
    Hello, all. It seems that this is the best place to ask. I'm tired of the NICS delay I'm experiencing after attempting to purchase a rifle at a sporting goods store. It has been 10 business days (the check started on Sat, July 4th).

    No answers from the employees, just constant waiting. Anyway, I've read that North Carolina doesn't require registering of firearms. I know any handgun transfer, sale, etc... needs a gun permit, but does this apply to long guns?

    If I privately obtain a long gun from instate or out of state, is this legal?

    I just want to make sure, because if I'm ever questioned, based on what the law says, how would anyone even know where I obtained the long gun?

    It's approaching two weeks I've waited for this supposed Instant check.
    the NCIS delay works like this... if they do not deny you within 3 business days, you are approved... go pick up your rifle...

    they did the same to me 2 years ago...

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    I guess I'm going to go the private route then. Still nothing.

    Regarding the 3 day delay, the sporting goods stores appear to be afraid of screwing up their FFL. They will not release without approval.

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    donkatec wrote:
    I guess I'm going to go the private route then. Still nothing.

    Regarding the 3 day delay, the sporting goods stores appear to be afraid of screwing up their FFL. They will not release without approval.
    i would either find another store or call NICS myself and tell them that you need them to call in an approval...

    either that or talk to the manager of the store and ask him why he isnt following NICS procedure in that a delay is ok to release if there is not a denial after 3 days?

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    The NICS Examiner will provide the FFL with the date of the third business day after the firearm check was initiated. Business days do not include the day the check was initiated, Saturdays, Sundays, and any day state offices in the state of purchase are closed. If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must mark “No resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. It is recommended the FFL record the date provided in the delay response on which the firearm may be lawfully transferred under federal law if a final determination of proceed or denied is not received from the NICS.



    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm

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    Per the manager at Dick's, their policy changed within the past few months. They will NOT release a long gun even after three days. She did call up the NICS and follow up, but again they said it was in review. Review for 10 business days? Doesn't make sense. Oh well, their loss. Time to go elsewhere.

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    donkatec wrote:
    Per the manager at Dick's, their policy changed within the past few months. They will NOT release a long gun even after three days. She did call up the NICS and follow up, but again they said it was in review. Review for 10 business days? Doesn't make sense. Oh well, their loss. Time to go elsewhere.
    ok so they have silly rules... what area of the state are you in? i would bet that i know of a shop that would give you a better deal anyways, without the hassle too...

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    donkatec wrote:
    Per the manager at Dick's, their policy changed within the past few months. They will NOT release a long gun even after three days. She did call up the NICS and follow up, but again they said it was in review. Review for 10 business days? Doesn't make sense. Oh well, their loss. Time to go elsewhere.
    You need to go over the manager's head to ask about this - keep your inquiry simple - Hi, my name is ____ and am having trouble at your store in _____ but eh general manager says he won;t follow federal law on NICS delays - i should have had my gun on day 3, can you look into this?

    if Dicks is doing this on their onw as a corp policy, and other stores do not, then we should organize a nationwide boycott - with so many crikminal records established in false names or screwed up dat files, its a wonder how any gun sale gets approved these days

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    they are following the law, it clearly states "it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm" if a delayed condition is recieved.

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    Mekender and Mike,

    Thanks for your responses. I live in Winston-Salem. I'd love to know of a dealer here that won't wait this long to release, especially if their prices are good.

    Also, my friend here told me to check into classifieds, but I have no idea where to look. Not sure about buying a used .22 rifle, but why not? Anyone know of where to look?

    BTW, I'm close to even emailing their corporate and telling them I will no longer do business with them over their poor customer service and policy. (Twice already they never called me back after I called them)

    I have no issues waiting three days for a rifle, but 14 days is a bit much, especially if I've never been arrested or in trouble with the law. I'd gladly tell them that they lost about $500 in this one transaction.

    Thanks again!

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    Redwolf wrote:
    they are following the law, it clearly states "it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm" if a delayed condition is recieved.
    the customer's perspective is what is commecially important here to the corporation and it is also true that the dealer also follows thel aw by completing the transfer - times are tough, and boycotts make things tougher

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    donkatec wrote:
    BTW, I'm close to even emailing their corporate and telling them I will no longer do business with them over their poor customer service and policy. (Twice already they never called me back after I called them)
    Consider approaching them as I discuss above to resolve the situation - if the store is rogue, you may win quickly, alternatively, they must come clean on policy and have to confont a boycott - calm sugar gets the flies, not vinegar.

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    Mike,

    Thanks for the reply. Per the store manager, that's corporate policy, not the one store. She specifically said it had changed within about the last six months.

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    donkatec wrote:
    Mike,

    Thanks for the reply. Per the store manager, that's corporate policy, not the one store. She specifically said it had changed within about the last six months.
    Tryst but verify, and complain. Then we boycott.

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    Plenty of good places in my area for used goodies and i've got some friends at gun shops/pawn shops, they won't expedite the process but they won't make it take any longer than necessary. Buying used has it's risks though, expecially from classifieds.. just know what you're looking for. Try the Carolina Money Saver, it's a magazine that lists all sorts of useless stuff but I see decent guns on there every now and again. the upside to buying from someone is that the economy is bad and they are going to give you a much better deal on the gun then any pawn, gun, or manufacturer. But I will promise you if you do the footwork on the looking end you will be rewarded with great used gun for a great price.

    And about the store I don't mind them taking so longin the process because of policy and what not, but when they lose contact and communication with the customer thats unacceptable and you should take your business elsewhere as everyone stated... do it politely though.Them losing your business should be enough, no need to harass them for doing their job.

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    I stopped firearms purchases from Dick's several years ago when I went in to make a purchase and they would not accept the CCW in lieu of the NICS check. NICS was "down" and I was told I'd need to come back the next day. NC does permit the use of the CCW in lieu of the NICS check, but I was told that Dick's requires the NICS check. Have not bothered with them since.

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    donkatec wrote:
    Mekender and Mike.........


    Also, my friend here told me to check into classifieds, but I have no idea where to look. Not sure about buying a used .22 rifle, but why not? Anyone know of where to look?
    .............

    Thanks again!
    What kind of .22 rifle are you looking for?

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    A Ruger 10/22, Mossberg 802, or Savage/Marlin bolt-action.

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    try LJA Arms (they are in Stokesdale, NC). The owner is fantastic and will try to get you what you need. His prices are reasonable, and he is a real patriot.

    He has much more than is listed on the site, and is very knowledgable.

    http://www.lja-ar15.com



    There is also a great store in Kernersville off of Hwy 66, The Gun Rack. Very good prices, always helpful.

    http://www.billsgunrack.com/

    He has a larger stock than LJA, and also sells reloading supplies. No product listed on the site, but a good shop to visit.



    Neither of these folks will hassle you like the big box stores.

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    donkatec wrote:
    Mekender and Mike,

    Thanks for your responses. I live in Winston-Salem. I'd love to know of a dealer here that won't wait this long to release, especially if their prices are good.

    Also, my friend here told me to check into classifieds, but I have no idea where to look. Not sure about buying a used .22 rifle, but why not? Anyone know of where to look?

    BTW, I'm close to even emailing their corporate and telling them I will no longer do business with them over their poor customer service and policy. (Twice already they never called me back after I called them)

    I have no issues waiting three days for a rifle, but 14 days is a bit much, especially if I've never been arrested or in trouble with the law. I'd gladly tell them that they lost about $500 in this one transaction.

    Thanks again!
    first place i would check is http://www.thesportsmanslodge.org/

    the owner, chuck, is about as good a guy as you will find... he is only about 10 miles up 421 from winston...

    if you want, you could also check and see what is up for sale at carolinashootersforum.com

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    UPDATE:

    Officially one month now and no NICS callback. Still on delay.
    A friend of mine applied for his first rifle three weeks ago. Still no response.

    While at the store following up, a lady was purchasing a rifle. She had waited about four weeks, too. Has this become the norm now? Has anyone attempted to purchase a rifle in the past month (without a CCW)?

    By the way, I did call some local shops, and it looks like they've adjusted their selling practices. Because of past experiences, they are now waiting for approval before selling long guns.

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    gutshot wrote:
    donkatec wrote:
    UPDATE:

    Officially one month now and no NICS callback. Still on delay.
    A friend of mine applied for his first rifle three weeks ago. Still no response.

    While at the store following up, a lady was purchasing a rifle. She had waited about four weeks, too. Has this become the norm now? Has anyone attempted to purchase a rifle in the past month (without a CCW)?

    By the way, I did call some local shops, and it looks like they've adjusted their selling practices. Because of past experiences, they are now waiting for approval before selling long guns.
    They will not call back. After the three days expire NICS stops the check and closes the file. I've been getting delays on every purchase I've made since NICS started (maybe 40 purchases). It's no big deal, find another dealer.
    yeah, he is right... did you check with the shop i linked to you?

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    This is the first I've heard about NICS closing the file after 3 days.

    I called both shops and the one dealer (I think gun rack) said they no longer release the guns unless they get the approval. Too much problems with the ATF, they stated.

    I didn't get the chance to ask the second dealer. I'm kinda getting tired of all these delays. This is exactly why I never bothered in my old state. I thought it would be much easier after moving to NC.

    So if I can find a dealer that releases after 3 days, I'll try that, but what happens to the original NICS delay?

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    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm

    "The NICS Section


    Located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, the NICS Section processes background checks for the FFLs in those states that have declined to serve as POCs for the NICS. The FFLs conducting business in these states will contact the NICS either by telephone, via one of the contracted call centers, or electronically by the NICS E-Check via the Internet. The FFLs will provide the descriptive information requested on the ATF Form 4473, which is required by law to be completed and signed by every prospective firearm transferee. The FFL will receive a response that the transfer may proceed or is delayed. This response is typically provided within 30 seconds.


    If no matching records are returned by any of the databases, the transaction is automatically proceeded. If the NICS returns a match of the prospective firearm transferee’s descriptive information to that of record information located in any of the databases, the FFL is advised that the transaction is delayed. While the FFL is still on the telephone, the call is placed on hold and transferred to the NICS Section in Clarksburg, West Virginia, for a quick review and evaluation by a NICS Legal Instruments Examiner (NICS Examiner). If the record information returned by the NICS presents a valid match to the descriptive information of the prospective firearm transferee, the NICS Examiners, who have access to protected information (as opposed to Call Center personnel who do not have such access) review the information to determine if state and/or federal firearm prohibitive criteria exists. If the information matched by the NICS is not a valid match or no prohibitive criteria exists, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL they may PROCEED with the firearm transaction. The FFL must record the NICS Transaction Number (NTN) on line 21b of the ATF Form 4473 and retain the form for auditing purposes.


    If it is determined that prohibitive criteria exists, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DENY the firearm transaction. If potentially prohibitive criteria exists and more information is required in order to make the determination, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DELAY the firearm transaction and the FFL will receive the following instructions:


    “. . .NTN ___ will be delayed while the NICS continues its research. If you do not receive a final response from us, the Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of the firearm on day/date.”


    The NICS Examiner will provide the FFL with the date of the third business day after the firearm check was initiated. Business days do not include the day the check was initiated, Saturdays, Sundays, and any day state offices in the state of purchase are closed. If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must mark “No resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. It is recommended the FFL record the date provided in the delay response on which the firearm may be lawfully transferred under federal law if a final determination of proceed or denied is not received from the NICS.


    When a transaction is DELAYED, the NICS Examiner begins extensive research on the potential prohibitor. When the research is complete, the NICS Examiner calls the FFL and gives a PROCEED or DENY decision on the firearm transaction.


    In states that agree to serve as POCs for the NICS, the functions performed by the NICS Section are performed by a local or state law enforcement agency which services the FFLs. The FFLs call these local or state agencies, which perform the check, make the decision whether the check indicates an individual is disqualified or not from possessing a firearm, and notify the FFL of the results of the check."

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