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Thread: Great article about OC in California

  1. #1
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    http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jul/15/cover/

    First, I am given instructions on what to do if approached by the police. I brace myself as Nate explains.
    “What’s going to happen is, they’re going to want to do a 12031(e) unloaded check,” he begins. “They’ll say they want to check your weapon. You say, ‘Are you requesting or demanding?’ If they say, ‘Demanding,’ you say, ‘I don’t consent to any warrantless searches. But I’m not going to resist.’ And then you stick your hands out, they check your weapon, and it’s done.”
    Sounds easy enough, I figure. I’ve got my tape recorder ready, as open carriers are urged, via websites like OpenCarry.org, to keep recording devices on them while carrying to capture any interactions with police (and civilians) they might have in case their rights are infringed upon.
    “You don’t have to answer any other questions. You don’t have to give them your ID,” Sam instructs. “It’s technically an illegal search under the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment says you have protection against unreasonable search and seizure. If there’s a woman pushing a baby stroller down the boardwalk, that does not give the police the right to check if the kid is kidnapped. So if you’re in full compliance with the law, minding your own business, they technically don’t have the right to stop you to check if your weapon is unloaded or loaded.”

    At the Mexican restaurant, lunch proceeds normally, save for a few stares, until I notice a large white-and-black SUV pull up in front of us. “Uh-oh,” I think. “Here we go.”
    A male cop emerges, a tall man with a salt-and-pepper crew cut. He smiles at us.
    “Howdy, folks. How’re you all doing today?” he asks.
    “Fine,” everybody responds.
    “I’m going to have to do a 12031(e) inspection on you and get out of your hair,” the cop says.
    “Are you requesting or demanding?” Nate asks.
    “I’m sorry?” asks the cop.
    “Are you requesting or demanding?” Nate repeats.
    The cop looks at him.
    “Well, I’ll start with a request, but then I’ll demand,” he replies.
    “As long as you’re demanding,” says Nate.
    The cop starts with Sean.
    He has him face the opposite direction and goes around behind him, removing Sean’s gun. He checks for ammunition and, finding none, places the gun back in its holster.
    The cop makes his way around the table. Each of the trio stands and, when asked to be checked, pipes up with “Requesting or demanding?”
    When the cop gets to me, I gulp, even though I know my line.
    “You, ma’am, are carrying as well?” he asks.
    I nod, then jump right in.
    “Requesting or demanding?” I ask.
    “Requesting and then I’ll be demanding,” comes the reply.
    I stand, watching as he removes the gun from my hip. I can hear the revolver’s wheel turning as he checks the chamber for bullets. Then he hands it back to me — the first time I’ve handled a real handgun — and I slide it, if somewhat amateurishly, into the holster.
    “Okay,” the cop says. “I appreciate your cooperation.”
    Before he leaves, Sean asks if someone sent him over.
    “Actually, we had a radio call. I guess you were out on the boardwalk,” the cop replies.
    “I think I know the guy…” Sean says wryly.
    “I talked to one person that had called. He said you were headed south,” the cop says. “So we were looking for you. We appreciate your cooperation. Have a good day.”
    I glance around me and notice several cruisers are parked along the edge of the Mexican restaurant’s lot, plus the SUV.
    Nate turns to me.
    “You have just experienced the hassle of the open-carry movement,” he says.
    “That guy was actually very good, very straightforward,” Sean comments, as the SUV and its entourage drive away. “He was not out to abuse rights, he was not out to try and make anything up. He was just doing his job.”
    This makes one cop stop for Sean, two for Sam, and three for Nate.
    No ID badgering, no strange questioning, just a check to see if they're complying with CA's unloaded gun law. Oh Flynn, I wish you would take notes...

  2. #2
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I still like to keep one in the tube. But I guess for CA, it is a great start...

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    AaronS wrote:
    I still like to keep one in the tube. But I guess for CA, it is a great start...
    No arguments here on that. I'm just surprised that people are getting less of a hassle there right now, in a state that doesn't allow me to possess 3/4 of my firearms collection, compared to here.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    It should be noted that this is not a typical experience for open carriers in California. Most police departments still have not issued memos or given training to officers on how to handle open carriers and what can or cannot be done during a 12031(e) check. Most treat it like a Terry stop (blatant violation of the 4th) and will frisk you, demand/take ID, and run the serial number of your gun to check for DROS; and those are just the "nice" encounters. I have not even attempted to OC in my own neighborhood because I know I would end up on the receiving end of a felony hot stop, plus we have so many schools here it would be a legal minefield to try to keep out of range of them.

    We have Governor Ronald Reagan to thank for the Mulford Act which banned the carry of loaded weapons pretty much everywhere, and the Black Panther Party for forever staining the image of open carry in this state, which used to be quite common before '67.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    We have Governor Ronald Reagan to thank for the Mulford Act which banned the carry of loaded weapons pretty much everywhere, ...... in this state, which used to be quite common before '67.
    Reagan was responsible for a lot ofanti-gun legislation....he was the one that orginally banned firearms from national parks......as well asgetting Eric Holder in a postion of power:

    In 1988, then-President Ronald Reagan appointed Holder to serve on the Bench as a Judge of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia.[11][/suP]

    and how can we not forget the Brady Goulscame out of the Reagan administration...


    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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