OpenCarry.org press release: Justice done by judge & jury re open carry case near Obama rall

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[align=center]OpenCarry.org
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[align=center]For Immediate Release - July 17, 2009[/align]
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[align=center]PA Judge & Jury Rule Man Not Guilty of Disorderly Gun Carry Near Obama Rally[/align]
[align=center]Government Prosecution an Abortion of Justice
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[align=left]OpenCarry.org is pleased to announce that today in Beaver County, PA both judge and jury agreed that legally carrying a gun while handing our literature in a public park is neither “disorderly” nor “disruptive of a meeting, procession or gathering” even if a presidential candidate might be speaking in a nearby location later in the day. Justice was done for John “Mountain Jack” Noble today. See http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/20063353/detail.html.

In fact, justice has been done 3 times in the past year in a trifecta of criminal and quasi-criminal cases or actions brought against Pennsylvania gun owners for merely exercising their constitutionally protected right to open carry. See http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/16878.html.

Noble’s prosecution was particularly egregious for 3 reasons. First, he was not at any Obama rally nor was any Obama rally occurring when he was arrested. Second, the Secret Service cleared Noble shortly after the arrest by the locals. Third, not only was Noble’s conduct (i.e., mere holstered open carry while handing out fliers) constitutionally protected, but he was in a public park – a place considered a “public forum” under the law where speech and assembly rights are constitutionally protected to a degree nearly without question.

The action by the Pennsylvania State Police and Beaver County prosecutor to bring criminal prosecution under these facts can only be described as an abortion of justice.

Carry on![/align]
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[align=left]Media Contacts:

OpenCarry.org co-founders:
John Pierce: John AT OpenCarry.org
Mike Stollenwerk: Mike AT Opencarry.org
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Nice piece!

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:celebrate:monkey

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Congratulations Mountain Jack! :celebrate

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I would think this will not change the policy of the USSS in such cases. As far as they are concerned they got rid of the guy (potential threat) in time for Obama's visit and that is all they cared about. I doubt they are going to loss any sleep over this, no matter how wrong they were.

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Well, it was the local guys that pursued it and demonized him. The SS guys cleared him of charges early in the process.

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I don't think the SS had a problem with it... I would imagine they had someone observing him but as long as he didn't act deranged they would most likely not bother him. The locals on the other hand were showing off for the SS.

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Maybe Mtn Jack should check into a lawsuit involving false arrest, mental anguish, defamation of character and fees for his defense if any of that is possible. The local poo poo might not be as eager to show off for the Feds next time around.

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Pace
http://www.libertypace.com

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I knew it was po po but thought that poo poo fit much better.

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:celebrate

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Good work!!

John

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9026543 wrote:

Maybe Mtn Jack should check into a lawsuit involving false arrest, mental anguish, defamation of character and fees for his defense if any of that is possible. The local poo poo might not be as eager to show off for the Feds next time around.

Click to expand...

The problem with this idea is that when you have a statute as vague as Pennsylvania's "disrupting a meeting or procession" felony law (a misdemeanor with 3 year jail sentence), and when you have somebody open carryin a gun and the president or candidate coming to town, and the secret service has every local LEO wound up to help, the reality is that every court is going to find "qualified immunity" in pretty much anything relatively reasonable the police do - e.g., detain/arrest you and subject you to a secret service interview - remember the Smoketown 6 case? Same deal.

What's really totally Kooky in Jack's case, unlike the Smoketown 6,is that the state police and Beaver county prosecutor insisted on a trial when it was so likley Jack would either win by acquittal or reversal on appeal on First Amendment related grounds.


I think there are 2 good bright line rules to consider when thinking about open carrying as a form of expressive conduct: First, will the message be understandable and tailored to achieve a goal? And second, are the circumstances so unique that the police will under almost any circumstance have qualified immunity if they cart you off and possibly subject you to a trial that might bankrupt you?

I think that if the answer to either question are pretty much in the yes column, then open carrying as expressive conduct in those circumstances is both illogical for you and counter-productive for the cause.

In the main, the open carry movement is about open carrying while minding your own beeswax in your daily life. Targeted expressive conduct sometimes has value, but can have high risk and be counter-productive too.

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Here is my take... be careful what you post about plans to OC at an event like this. I would personally not post anything at all unless there was a planned OC event that involved large numbers of people that was planned well in advance.

Also what you say is very important in any post. You need to discern if your words could be used against you before you hit send!

using the phrase "I am going to show him" is not the best idea as we saw it was misconstrued!

It would have been better if he said " I am going down to the rally in XYZ location is anyone else planning to? If he got an affirmative from a few people then would be time to discuss OC at the event.

I am sure that some will take my post as armchair quarterbacking... however I have learned that nothing you post on the internet is confidential so we must be carefull what we say... Esp when the topic is a canidate for president.

Some will say "but freedom of speech" to that I say you must still be carefull what you say that it not be taken incorrectly!

IMOP YMMV

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Why don't we also make a statement about the fact the judge called the open carriers idiots? -Or am I just sadly informed?

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Where is the cite? I havn't found anywhere that the judge said OCers are idiots... So if it is out there I would like to see it!!

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autosurgeon wrote:

Where is the cite? I havn't found anywhere that the judge said OCers are idiots... So if it is out there I would like to see it!!

Click to expand...

No source yet. It was mentioned, apparently by people that were there, but no press on it yet.

If I can get a site I will. Until then, assume it didn't happen.

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Well Judges have said some silly things in the past... I am just glad that the law was applied fairly in this case!

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When we set out on our journey we were not alone.
We went together and with God.
We went forth as Pennsylvanians and Americans.
Along the way we were questioned...and..
you all rallied,
you all answered the call,
you all stood brave tall and true,
you all sacrificed your time, talents, money, life,
you all drove to the hearing and the trial, you testified,
you all invited us to dinners
you all educated the masses,
you checked on our well being, offered wishes, prayers and encouragement,
you were the jury,
you all rock.
Thank you, purely from the depths of our hearts!
you showed what it is to be A Pennsylvanian, An American.

The picture I took of Jacks arrest is titled
"You do not walk alone"

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Theseus wrote:

autosurgeon wrote:

Where is the cite? I havn't found anywhere that the judge said OCers are idiots... So if it is out there I would like to see it!!

Click to expand...

No source yet. It was mentioned, apparently by people that were there, but no press on it yet.

If I can get a site I will. Until then, assume it didn't happen.

Click to expand...

people on PAFOA, who were there, reported it.