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OpenCarry.org press release: Justice done by judge & jury re open carry case near Obama rall

autosurgeon

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Well it doesn't surprise me... Those in the judicial branch from leo on up seem to have propensity for preaching:lol:

Also one other point about web postings... it's better if you are going to do an event like this and you are not able to give much advance notice IE make an event out of it...to NOT post about it until after the fact. If you do know a few close friends in the are that you want to invite PM them or email them... its a little more private and not as easy to dig up and use a against you... requires warrants and so forth versus just a web search.

You can always post after the fact as we all do when we OC at a certain location or even... by then of course you will know if you got detained or arrested:lol:
 

Mike

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autosurgeon wrote:
Where is the cite? I havn't found anywhere that the judge said OCers are idiots... So if it is out there I would like to see it!!
The judge is reported to have used the word "foolish" in court or perhaps in an after court interview - I think Mountain Jack's response is right on target below - remember the judges are playing to a couople of audiences to - faithful to the law, but explaining it to the public via their opinions and statements in a way that makes sense to many or most people.

--

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09199/984795-57.stm

Beaver man who brought gun to Obama rally acquitted
Saturday, July 18, 2009
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A Beaver County judge yesterday said the actions of a man who brought a gun to an Obama rally last year were "foolish." But they weren't criminal.

Both a jury and Common Pleas Judge Harry E. Knafelc decided that John Noble, 51, of Industry, broke no law when he strapped on a holster carrying a Glock pistol and went to an Aug. 29 campaign event in a park across from the Beaver County Courthouse.

The jury, after deliberating over parts of two days, said Mr. Noble was innocent of the charge of disrupting a public gathering. Judge Knafelc separately found Mr. Noble not guilty of a summary charge of disorderly conduct in the same incident.

"In my lifetime, there have been a number of assassinations of presidents and presidential candidates. A number of presidents were shot at. I'm very cognizant of that," the judge said in a phone interview after yesterday's decision. "The defendant's actions were very foolish. But not all foolish actions are criminal acts."

It is legal to carry an unconcealed weapon in Pennsylvania, but a state trooper at the rally charged Mr. Noble after someone alerted authorities about the pistol.

"We're talking about heightened security," Judge Knafelc said. "The police did nothing wrong."

Mr. Noble testified that had gone to the rally to hand out pro-gun pamphlets as a "very quiet protest" against President Barack Obama's comments in San Francisco during the presidential campaign that Pennsylvanians "cling to guns or religion."

After his acquittal yesterday, Mr. Noble told KDKA that he didn't take offense at Judge Knafelc's description of his actions as foolish.

"That's the judge's opinion," he said. "I think he ruled on the law and that's the way it should have been."

"God is good," said his wife, Janet Noble. "Our constitution stands."

Mr. Noble's trial attracted others who support gun rights -- several of them checked their arms at the door of the Beaver County Courthouse before entering to watch the proceeding.

"The action by the Pennsylvania State Police and Beaver County prosecutor to bring criminal prosecution ... can only be described as an abortion of justice," the group OpenCarry.org said in a statement yesterday.

Some postings on the organization's Web site called for advocates to demonstrate solidarity with Mr. Noble by openly carrying guns in Downtown Pittsburgh during September's G-20 summit of world leaders.

Jerome L. Sherman can be reached at jsherman@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1183.
First published on July 18, 2009 at 12:00 am
 

Mike

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autosurgeon wrote:
Well as I said before it doesn't surprise me that a judge would take it upon his or herself to preach.
And this gives them a bit of a safety valve so that they can faithfully rule on the law on one hand and play to other audiences with theother.
 

Pace

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Hey, I personally think a lot of OC'ers are idiots and just do it to "show off" their gun.

That being said, I will be the first person to protect their right to be and "idiot" and "show off" their gun.

That's the beauty of this Country, folks. You are allowed to be an idiot, you are allowed to be a show off, you are allowed to OFFEND other people's sensibilities and make them think.

Oh, and I OC, 'cause its 110' and I usually wear a sports jacket in Las Vegas, but not outside.

Pace
 

levernut

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autosurgeon wrote:
Well it doesn't surprise me... Those in the judicial branch from leo on up seem to have propensity for preaching:lol:
Small point, but if I remember my civics correctly, LEOs are part of the executive branch, not judicial. :)
 

TFred

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One of the folks on the pafoa forums known as JavaProgrammer waited until after the trial was all over to post these thoughts. At the suggestion of other pafoa forum members, the author has submitted the piece to various media outlets hoping they will be published, and has asked others to post elsewhere as they see appropriate.

TFred

Here's a link to the post.
I am one of the people that went to John Noble's trial to support him. I am also a member of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. I would like to share some of my opinions with you.

Many people, including yourself, have stated that open carrying a firearm near a rally for a presidential candidate was stupid and foolish. There is a belief that this was not the time or the place to bring a firearm. I vehemently disagree. This was the perfect place for open carry.

I would like to remind you of Barack Obama's original comment. He said,
“You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
This statement was very insulting to the citizens of Pennsylvania and to many Americans across the country. It is insulting because he is lumping people of faith and firearm owners together with racists. He is also saying that our faith and our firearms are a result of bitterness.

I am a disciple of Christ. My faith is not the result of bitterness about the economic situation. I have faith because I realized that I was a sinner, I was lost, and I needed salvation. My baptism was a joyous occasion. God has provided me with peace and contentment in my life. This is not bitterness. Do I cling to my religion? Yes I do and I am proud of it.

I own firearms. I realize that the world is not always a safe place. More importantly, I realize that governments do not always respect the rights of the citizens. My ownership of firearms is independent of the economic situation. I believe that it is important for citizens to be armed, regardless of which government is in power. Do I cling to my guns? Yes I do and I am proud of it.

Mr. Noble took his Bible and his gun to Beaver in order to engage in a silent protest. Was the Bible necessary? Yes it was. It was a demonstration that people of faith are not bitter. We are not dangerous and we do not need to be feared. We do not want to force our faith upon other people. We want the freedom to worship and to teach others about Christ. Whether or not someone actually comes to Christ is their decision.

Was the gun necessary? Yes it was. Since Mr. Noble was not acting in a threatening manner, he was demonstrating that firearm owners are not dangerous lunatics and do not need to be feared. If he had been allowed to engage in his silent protest, then people would have seen that he is a peaceful man and that he is not bitter. He was demonstrating that people of faith and firearm owners are not racists. We are not bitter. We have deeply held beliefs that are not impacted by economic situations.

Mr. Noble also had the gun rights pamphlets. Not only was he there to demonstrate that religious gun owners are not bitter, but he was also there to educate people about gun rights. You have suggested that Mr. Noble could have handed out the pamphlets without having a gun. It is a little hypocritical to be educating people about gun rights without exercising such rights. Actions speak louder than words. When advocating open carry to the public, it is more important to have a gun than to have the gun rights pamphlets.

Mr. Noble's actions were not foolish or stupid. That was one of the most appropriate events to carry a Bible and a gun to. I wish that I would have known about his silent protest before it happened. If I had, I would have joined Mr. Noble at Beaver that night. I am certainly willing to open carry with him in the future.
 

JSlack7851

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, Ohio, USA
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I had faith Jack would be exonerated. That leaves the question about what now? What happens when the next LEO wants to proscuite some one else? Here in Ohio malicious prosicuition is the norm and not the exception. LEO harass, bully, and lie. Tell you that Open Carry isn't legal, you have to 'cover it up'. Just who holds them liable for their actions? The day is going to come when its you or me in hand cuffs (again), and we may not have a great bunch of people like PAFOA to help out with expenses. Is it feasable that somewhere, somehow, there could be compensation for exercising your 2A rights with out worrying about being litigated into bankrupcy? I read in other 'milk and cookies' sites where, even the ccw permit holders are worried that their concealed weapon would happen to show, LEO will get involved ect, ect, ect.

Gun owners shouldn't have to cower under LEO bullying, harassment, and flat out lying. Malicious prosicuition cases should be a double edged sword where cases like Jack Noble should be able to collect for damages, Legal, personal, and for his family. LEO who make up excuses to arrest someone should, first be fired, and second be held liable.

rDigital was found 'not guility' of his 'failure to notify' charge b/c the LEO were over heard conspiring on the dash cams as to what to charge him with. These officers need fired! They must be held accountable. It was a case of mistaken idenity, they had the wrong guy to begin with, but the officers, instead of releasing him had, attitude b/c he had a ccw and two very legal weapons. Accountability!!!!!
 

RogueWarrior

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Pace wrote:
Hey, I personally think a lot of OC'ers are idiots and just do it to "show off" their gun.

That being said, I will be the first person to protect their right to be and "idiot" and "show off" their gun.

That's the beauty of this Country, folks. You are allowed to be an idiot, you are allowed to be a show off, you are allowed to OFFEND other people's sensibilities and make them think.

Oh, and I OC, 'cause its 110' and I usually wear a sports jacket in Las Vegas, but not outside.

Pace
I take offence to you saying that OG'ers are Idiots I OC because in NM they will not give you a CCW if you are not a Citizen I am only a LEGAL RESIDENT of this great Country and yes when I can I will become a Citizen so that is why I OC
 

Doug Huffman

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TFred wrote:
Here's a link to the post.
I am one of the people that went to John Noble's trial to support him. I am also a member of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. I would like to share some of my opinions with you.

Many people, including yourself, have stated that open carrying a firearm near a rally for a presidential candidate was stupid and foolish. There is a belief that this was not the time or the place to bring a firearm. I vehemently disagree. This was the perfect place for open carry.

I would like to remind you of Barack Obama's original comment. He said,
“You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
This statement was very insulting to the citizens of Pennsylvania and to many Americans across the country. It is insulting because he is lumping people of faith and firearm owners together with racists. He is also saying that our faith and our firearms are a result of bitterness.

I am a disciple of Christ. My faith is not the result of bitterness about the economic situation. I have faith because I realized that I was a sinner, I was lost, and I needed salvation. My baptism was a joyous occasion. God has provided me with peace and contentment in my life. This is not bitterness. Do I cling to my religion? Yes I do and I am proud of it.

I own firearms. I realize that the world is not always a safe place. More importantly, I realize that governments do not always respect the rights of the citizens. My ownership of firearms is independent of the economic situation. I believe that it is important for citizens to be armed, regardless of which government is in power. Do I cling to my guns? Yes I do and I am proud of it.

Mr. Noble took his Bible and his gun to Beaver in order to engage in a silent protest. Was the Bible necessary? Yes it was. It was a demonstration that people of faith are not bitter. We are not dangerous and we do not need to be feared. We do not want to force our faith upon other people. We want the freedom to worship and to teach others about Christ. Whether or not someone actually comes to Christ is their decision.

Was the gun necessary? Yes it was. Since Mr. Noble was not acting in a threatening manner, he was demonstrating that firearm owners are not dangerous lunatics and do not need to be feared. If he had been allowed to engage in his silent protest, then people would have seen that he is a peaceful man and that he is not bitter. He was demonstrating that people of faith and firearm owners are not racists. We are not bitter. We have deeply held beliefs that are not impacted by economic situations.

Mr. Noble also had the gun rights pamphlets. Not only was he there to demonstrate that religious gun owners are not bitter, but he was also there to educate people about gun rights. You have suggested that Mr. Noble could have handed out the pamphlets without having a gun. It is a little hypocritical to be educating people about gun rights without exercising such rights. Actions speak louder than words. When advocating open carry to the public, it is more important to have a gun than to have the gun rights pamphlets.

Mr. Noble's actions were not foolish or stupid. That was one of the most appropriate events to carry a Bible and a gun to. I wish that I would have known about his silent protest before it happened. If I had, I would have joined Mr. Noble at Beaver that night. I am certainly willing to open carry with him in the future.​
Thank you, TFred, for this powerful post! It is without a doubt the best in a looong time! It makes me proud to be a resistant American.
 

color of law

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JSlack7851 wrote:
I had faith Jack would be exonerated. That leaves the question about what now? What happens when the next LEO wants to proscuite some one else? Here in Ohio malicious prosicuition is the norm and not the exception. LEO harass, bully, and lie. Tell you that Open Carry isn't legal, you have to 'cover it up'. Just who holds them liable for their actions? The day is going to come when its you or me in hand cuffs (again), and we may not have a great bunch of people like PAFOA to help out with expenses. Is it feasable that somewhere, somehow, there could be compensation for exercising your 2A rights with out worrying about being litigated into bankrupcy? I read in other 'milk and cookies' sites where, even the ccw permit holders are worried that their concealed weapon would happen to show, LEO will get involved ect, ect, ect.

Gun owners shouldn't have to cower under LEO bullying, harassment, and flat out lying. Malicious prosicuition cases should be a double edged sword where cases like Jack Noble should be able to collect for damages, Legal, personal, and for his family. LEO who make up excuses to arrest someone should, first be fired, and second be held liable.

rDigital was found 'not guility' of his 'failure to notify' charge b/c the LEO were over heard conspiring on the dash cams as to what to charge him with. These officers need fired! They must be held accountable. It was a case of mistaken idenity, they had the wrong guy to begin with, but the officers, instead of releasing him had, attitude b/c he had a ccw and two very legal weapons. Accountability!!!!!
Well said....
 

rpyne

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JSlack7851 wrote:
rDigital was found 'not guility' of his 'failure to notify' charge b/c the LEO were over heard conspiring on the dash cams as to what to charge him with. These officers need fired! They must be held accountable. It was a case of mistaken idenity, they had the wrong guy to begin with, but the officers, instead of releasing him had, attitude b/c he had a ccw and two very legal weapons. Accountability!!!!!
If they are on record, they need to be charged in federal court under 18 USC 241.

TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 241

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;...

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/241fin.php
 

color of law

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rpyne, I must inform you that you are incorrect.

John Noble is not an illegal alien on a US border smuggling drugs. Nor were the officers boarder patrol agents.:(
 

rpyne

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color of law wrote:
rpyne, I must inform you that you are incorrect.

John Noble is not an illegal alien on a US border smuggling drugs. Nor were the officers boarder patrol agents.:(
I have no idea what the relevance of this statement is. I never said anything about illegal aliens nor about border agents; nor does the section of US Code I quoted say anything about them.

The US Code I quoted is part of the criminal code put in place by the Civil Rights Act. However, since the rights violation was perpetrated by law enforcement officers, it may be more appropriate to file action under 18 USC 242 rather than 241 which I originally quoted.

Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure
Part I - Crimes
Chapter 13 - Civil Rights
Section 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
 

color of law

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rpyne, I guess I didn't use enough "emotiocons." It also appears you don't keep up with history.

Look up Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean and you may get my "joke."
 

rpyne

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color of law wrote:
rpyne, I guess I didn't use enough "emotiocons." It also appears you don't keep up with history.

Look up Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean and you may get my "joke."
I keep up with CURRENT events. I am very well aware of the gross miscarriage of justice foisted on Border Patrol officers Ramos and Campeon.

Making an argumentative and accusatory statement with a vague reference to an historical (not current) event with no context does not constitute making a joke.
 

Bustelo5%

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Thank you John for standing up and to all the people accross the pond for keeping the faith,I know somehow your actions a state away help us in Ohio in some fashion and I really apperciate that. I am actually trying to start an OC group in Akron but if I cannot get that going ill just defect and go to PITT and meet you with PA staters,thanks all of you guys and thanks John Noble for standing up I know that the rewards for honor may not come to you today or in this life,but they will soon find you.
 
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