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Thread: OC friendly grocery stores?

  1. #1
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    Does anyone know the policy towards OC or even CCfor any grocery chain? I just recently got my handgun, and i'm extremely nervous to OC because i'm young(er) and i'm sure the first time I do someone is going to confront me, but I suppose if it's got to be that way what choice do I have?, because i'd like to go in there armed fromnow on.

    This article is just about a man who couldn't control himself, def. isn't a small guy.

    Also let's say i'm OCing in the grocery store, he's attacking the woman as in the article below. Is that probably cause for me to put one in his leg? i mean most likely i'd just fend him of with my mits because i'm not too bad with those... but he wasn't a small guy so I don't know. Any insight into this would be appreciated, it's all theoretical, i'm not that trigger happy. I promise


    MOORESVILLE, N.C. -- A woman is attacked and nearly sexually assaulted in the aisle of a grocery store as customers shopped nearby.

    Police say the woman was attacked at 12:43 p.m. Thursday in the greeting card aisle of a Food Lion in Mooresville.


    Lashawn Gadson was arrested and charged. Investigators say he did not know the woman he allegedly attacked.

    "He told us that he saw the lady and wanted to assault her," said Capt. Tom Thompson with the Mooresville Police Department. "She was at the greeting cards, looking at a birthday card or whatever. The suspect walks up behind her, grabs her dress, attempts to sexually assault her."

    Customers who frequent to this Food Lion consider it a folksy neighborhood store.



    "It's shocking and scary because I come here every day," said customer Jacquelyn Carr. "I know all the people who work in Food Lion."

    At least one of the employees and some customers came to help the woman. The employee pulled Gadson off the victim and the customers held him down until police arrived.

    "Here everybody knows who I am, knows my kids, so I'm sure they probably did her too," said customer Jennifer Thrasher.

    The 32-year-old Gadson is charged with second-degree sex offense, second-degree kidnapping and assault. His bond has been set at $75,000.




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    Normally I conceal, but I havent had any problems at the following places in the Raleigh/Cary area with OC

    Walmart
    Target
    Food Lion
    Harris Teeter (Jones Franklin, Raleigh and Harrison Ave, Cary locations)

    Every store has different management and different policies though (even though it may not agree with corporate policy). Just try carrying and see how it goes.

    Edit: I forgot to add that you should NEVER shoot just to injure. This is evidence to a DA and the jury that you didn't fear for your life and just wanted to shoot someone. It is an extremely bad idea and you can only legally match deadly force with deadly force. There is a line that is not completely clear between what is threat to life and not but just assaulting someone may not be deadly force.
    I know we all want to run to someones aid but shooting someone for assaulting an individual is a bad idea. If he had a gun or knife it would be a different story but be extremely careful in pulling a gun and pointing it at anyone. Don't even draw the gun unless you plan on shooting to kill.

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    First of all be very careful when coming to the defence of others. 2nd never ever shoot to wound, shoot to kill or not at all. and remember dead men tell no lies.

    To add some more when useing deadly force it has to be justified, meaning life, liberty, and yes sexual assault. In nc coming to the aid of others is not a defence. meaning If I start a fight and the other person pulls a gun on me you cant shoot them. You will get in trouble.

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    in NC, shooting someone is deadly force no matter where you "try" to shoot them... if you are justified in shooting, you are justified in killing them...


    that said... the goal of armed defensive shooting is NEVER to kill... it is ALWAYS to stop the threat... if the attacker dies, so be it... but your goal is always to stop the threat, not to kill...



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    The only problem with that way of putting it that way is people think its ok to shoot to wound, as the person above stated "put one in his leg" which is a no-no.

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    PS You should spend the money and take the CC class, you will learn the do's and don'ts of carrying a firearm and the use of deady force. And if your not mentally ready to kill someone if the need arises leave the gun at home.

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    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    IANAL

    In NC you are allowed to use deadly force if a victim is in the process of being assaulted sexually. The issue is that you don't know if these people may just be having an argument, or into kinky crap. Using deadly force in one of those instances could lead to significant problems with the law. If the woman calls out for help, it's a good chance that they are not friends and you should do something; but that doesn't mean deadly force is justified. If you you actually see a person in the physical act of raping a struggling woman screaming for help, it's lights out for the rapist. Civil suits WILL follow, but criminal law will find you justified in most cases.

    I have OC'd in every grocery store in the Charlotte area, and I have only had one issue when the police were called on me. I will not hijack, but I will say that the most they can do is tell you to leave. Follow the law, be courteous, but know the law and what your rights are. Don't compromise them for anyone.

    Just my .40

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    I appreciate your fella's opinions. I'm currently gaining a profound understanding of handgun law... i've been studying for some time now, and would like to think I know enough to own one at least, but I will admit the vagueness of the castle doctrine andthe going armed to the terror of the public laws do keep me unnerved. I'm trying to be as responsible as I can as a handgun owner that plans to OC, and try to grasp as many concepts as possible. They're just so many uneducated gun owners out there, and i'm planning on taking a CC course ASAP.

    I'm college educated(where I learned very quickly if you don't know anything you will be abused by LEO) i'd like to think I approach every situation I have the same way, I try to take in as much knowledge as I can, because it really is the only power I have.

    It seems with time and experience the answers will come because the question I posed was a little ambigious, I apologize. Really I think the only one's that can make that decision is a judge and jury but you guys did make some strong points. Oh and you guys were spot on in the grocery store case no deadely force would have been jusitfied, and Red I will take what you said to heart because I have a huge one and could possibly risk my own livelyhood by coming to the defence of another.

    Abb made a great point which was one i've heard before and figured held the most weight, don't point it at anyone unless you tend to use it to kill... or spend 4 grand on a lawyer explaining why you did it.AndI will takea person's life that is threatening me or my family, or an innocent civilian life without hesitation don't get me wrong. And i'm prepared to sit a jail cell for doing it, hopefully what I pay the N.R.A in self defence insurance will come in handy in that situation.

    Thanks for the insight guys. especially .40 cal... so many unknowns in that grocery store situation, but in a situation where i'm absolutely positive someone is comitting a violent felony it's acceptable to use deadly force is what I gathered, but again guys i'm not going to become the lone ranger or batman... this is all for clarification purposes and again thanks a million.

    Knowledge is power, and without this forum I don't think I could have gained anywhere near the understanding of NC handgun law without you guys. Thanks for being respectful, and helpful.

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    I have just seen what you wrote mekender, and that's the platform i'd like to stand on. It's to eliminate the threat, and anytime I fire... it could potentially be deadly even in a foot or leg etc.. Therefore even shooting in the leg is an act of deadly force, but stopping the threat is really my concern, not to kill, but as you said if it happens it happens.

    Thanks again guys.

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    mekender wrote:
    in NC, shooting someone is deadly force no matter where you "try" to shoot them... if you are justified in shooting, you are justified in killing them...


    that said... the goal of armed defensive shooting is NEVER to kill... it is ALWAYS to stop the threat... if the attacker dies, so be it... but your goal is always to stop the threat, not to kill...
    This about sums it up in my book.
    Don't shoot to wound
    Don't shoot to kill
    Shoot to stop the threat (whether that means they live or not)

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    There are other options as well. If the only defense weapon you carry is a gun then that is what you are limited to using. I can personally say that I am not interested in going hand to hand with someone. After going through a lot of the "what if" scenarios I made some decisions. I typically go out with3-4 "weapons" on me. Hear me out, I'm not nuts. My wife and I both have pepper spray, I have a folding knife, and usually carry amini maglighton a lanyard. If I find myself in a situation where I need to act, but the gun is too much I can still do something. I have heard the arguments about having to explain why I did not use a "less" lethal option before shooting. But I think that is easier to explain than why I used a gun when something less would have done if I had it. Just something else to think about.

    FWIW, I've been OC'ing around Hickory for 6 mths with no problems. Been in several grocery stores, walmart, target, etc. If you get confronted by management don't mention the signs.

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    While I know it seems to be holy writ that one should never fire a warning shot, (because it "proves" you were not in 'imminent danger",) I think the defense of a third party is the ONLY time a warning shot can be viable action.

    If the law requires that we use the minimum force necessary, (and it does), and we are allowed to use deadly force to protect a third party from death, serious bodily injury or sexualt assault, then certainly there are times where the use of a warning shot would accomplish the desired goal (elimination of the threat) with the added benefit that defense of a third party is the most problematic use of deadly force, because one rarely knows the entire context of the situation.

    It seems to me that absent the presence of a gun, or a knife to the throat of a third party, a warning shot can be a proper application of force.

    Just my $.02

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    Well I think you answered it right till you got to the 3rd party, I guess they were not in imminent danger that you had time to fire a warning shot. You get back to one thing if you have to pull the trigger shoot to kill. But if when the cops get there the answer is "I shot to stop the threat". Remember the just pulling your gun becomes, your word against his. We train 2 rds center mass, he keeps coming 1 to the head. And its going to be to fast for you to decide to do something fancy, or try to watch them and where your warning shot goes. People confuse the “Shoot to stop the threat” defense with if your going to pull the trigger you shoot to kill the bad person.[size=]

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    Deadly force- That force which a person uses with the intent of causing death or serious bodily harm or which a reasonable or prudent person would consider likely the substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily harm. to ONLY be used when ALL lesser means have failed.

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    Regular Member lonewolf2810's Avatar
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    Thursday wrote:
    mekender wrote:
    in NC, shooting someone is deadly force no matter where you "try" to shoot them... if you are justified in shooting, you are justified in killing them...


    that said... the goal of armed defensive shooting is NEVER to kill... it is ALWAYS to stop the threat... if the attacker dies, so be it... but your goal is always to stop the threat, not to kill...
    This about sums it up in my book.
    Don't shoot to wound
    Don't shoot to kill
    Shoot to stop the threat (whether that means they live or not)
    mekender, in one of the post in the thread it tells you to take a CCW class and that is a great idea as you will learn what you can and can not do. In my class the instructors explained that if you have to use your weapon do so in the manner it was meant. This being said you should always go for center mass if you choose to shoot, reason is if he/she has a gun and you do not know it and you shoot to wound and not kill then you could be the one in the paper being carried by 6. When and if you have to use your weapon you life as you know it will change forever. Just saying don't be gung ho as NC is a right to retreat state so keep this in mind. I would rather be Tried by 12 than carried by 6.

    Just my .02cents worth.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I live out in the "eastern" part of the state, near Greenville.

    I OC at local Food Lion, WalMart, Harris Teeter, and Fresh Market regularly, and without incident...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I OC all the time at the Harris Teeter's in Greensboro without incident. I have been asked about my firearm, but never to leave or cover it up. Always polite to me.

    I think a lot of it depends on the store manager/manager on duty. You will learn very quickly if someone doesn't want guns in their store. I answer that by doing one of two things

    1 - Make it very clear that I will not return to their store again

    2 - Go over the managers head (this is the best choice in my opinion). In any large chain they will be bound by corporate policy, so find out what that is. It is almost always that they will allow law abiding citizens to carry. If that is the case, ask corporate to inform the store manager and magically problems will seem to resolve themselves

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