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Green Bay open carry event: 12 PM on August 8th, 2009 at Ted Fritsch Park

Interceptor_Knight

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Not only does Brown County have the same language for "Public Meetings" requiring a permit in County Parks (only 10 days notice needed), but Brown County also has an Ordinance prohibiting the possession of firearms unless they are properly unloaded and encased.
 

GlocksRfun

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Landose_theghost wrote:
I do believe that we are activly taking care of our "Fecal matter" Intercepter. Or would you rather everyone attending this event be cited for an ordinance violation? An ordinance violation I might add,that would have went entirely unnoticed if we werent for us members "Planning as a group"(Much thanks to Spray&Pray for finding that little ordinance btw).
Not only does Brown County have the same language for "Public Meetings" requiring a permit in County Parks (only 10 days notice needed), but Brown County also has an Ordinance prohibiting the possession of firearms unless they are properly unloaded and encased.
66.04.09
 

Interceptor_Knight

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GlocksRfun wrote:
Negative. The County ordinanceis similar to and not more restrictive than the State ordinance (at least in the eyes of city and County DAs across the state). State Parks are regulated. We would need a test case with someone willing (time and resources) to fight it. If you are willing, please go ahead and carry in a Milwaukee County Park and then fight the inevitable citation so that we can have a very public test case. I frankly do not have the free time right now.
 

RugerMan

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Goshdarnit.

Ya Had to change the day... :-(

I will be outta town at a family wedding. So I'm gonna miss it if its on the 8th.

What was the ordinance that we would have been in violation of?
 

Doug Huffman

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
8.07 FIREARMS, BOWS, TRAPPING, AND FISHING EQUIPMENT. (1) Except in those parks or portions thereof as may be designated by official action of the Education and Recreation Committee and properly posted by the Park Director, no person in a park shall carry, fire, discharge or have in his/her possession or under his/her control any firearm, air gun, slingshot, bow, or any device designed for shooting a projectile unless the same is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case, or any bow unless the same is unstrung or enclosed in a carrying case, or have in his/her possession a trap(s) which can be used for trapping animals.
'Discharge' is in the purview of village powers only IIRC

Discharge is more limiting than allowed by 66.0409

66.0409 Local regulation of firearms. (1) In this section: (a) “Firearm” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (c). (b) “Political subdivision” means a city, village, town or county. (c) “Sport shooting range” means an area designed and operated for the practice of weapons used in hunting, skeet shooting and similar sport shooting. (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
61.34 Powers of village board. (1) GENERAL GRANT. Except as otherwise provided by law, the village board shall have the management and control of the village property, finances, highways, streets, navigable waters, and the public service, and shall have power to act for the government and good order of the village, for its commercial benefit and for the health, safety, welfare and convenience of the public, and may carry its powers into effect by license, regulation, suppression, borrowing, taxation, special assessment, appropriation, fine, imprisonment, and other necessary or convenient means. The powers hereby conferred shall be in addition to all other grants and shall be limited only by express language.

[ ...]

(5) CONSTRUCTION OF POWERS. For the purpose of giving to
villages the largest measure of self−government in accordance
with the spirit of article XI, section 3, of the constitution it is
hereby declared that this chapter shall be liberally construed in
favor of the rights, powers and privileges of villages to promote
the general welfare, peace, good order and prosperity of such villages
and the inhabitants thereof.

History: 1983 a. 192; 1987 a. 395; 1995 a. 27, 378; 1997 a. 27.
Cross−reference: See s. 118.105 for control of traffic on school premises.
When a municipality’s power to contract is improperly or irregularly exercised and
the municipality receives a benefit under the contract, it is estopped from asserting the invalidity of the contract. Village of McFarland v. Town of Dunn, 82 Wis. 2d 469, 263 N.W.2d 167 (1978).
A village was authorized under ss. 30.77 (3) and 61.34 (1) to enact an ordinance
granting exclusive temporary use of a portion of a lake for public water exhibition
licensees. State v. Village of Lake Delton, 93 Wis. 2d 78, 286 N.W.2d 622 (Ct. App. 1979).
The delegation of village powers to a non−governmental entity is discussed. Save
Elkhart Lake v. Elkhart Lake Village, 181 Wis. 2d 778, 512 N.W.2d 202 (Ct. App.
1993).
The state regulatory scheme for tobacco sales preempts municipalities from adopting regulations that are not in strict conformity with those of the state. U.S. Oil, Inc. v. City of Fond du Lac, 199 Wis. 2d 333, 544 N.W.2d 589 (Ct. App. 1995), 95−0213.
It was not a violation of this section, s. 236.45, or the public purpose doctrine for
a municipality to assume the dual role of subdivider of property it owned and reviewer of the plat under ch. 236. Town of Beloit v. Rock County, 2001 WI App 256, 249 Wis. 2d 88, 637 N.W.2d 71, 00−1231. Affirmed on other grounds, 2003 WI 8, 259 Wis. 2d 37, 657 N.W.2d 344, 00−1231.
One who deals with a municipality does so at his or her own risk and may be subject to any provisions of law that might prevent him or her from being paid by a municipality even though the services are rendered. Unless the power to bind the municipality financially has been specifically delegated, the only entity with the statutory authority to contract is the municipality. Holzbauer v. Safway Steel Products, Inc. 2005 WI App 240, 288 Wis. 2d 250, 711 N.W.2d 672, 04−2058.
State statutory enabling legislation is required to authorize enactment of typical
rent control ordinances. 62 Atty. Gen. 276.
Local units of government may not create and accumulate unappropriated surplus
funds. However, a local unit of government may maintain reasonable amounts necessary in the exercise of sound business principles to meet the immediate cash flow needs of the municipality during the current budgetary period or to accumulate needed capital in non−lapsing funds to finance specifically identified future capital expenditures. 76 Atty. Gen. 77.
Article VIII, section 5 restricts the state from levying taxes to create a surplus having no public purpose. Although the constitutional provision does not apply directly to municipalities, the same limitation applies indirectly to them because the state cannot delegate more power than it has. 76 Atty. Gen. 77.
Conflicts between state statutes and local ordinances in Wisconsin. 1975 WLR
 

Interceptor_Knight

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SprayAndPray wrote:
@#$% it.... I am done trying to salvage this .....
Green Bay appears more friendly to firearms. It is easier to face the accusation of gathering without a permit than going armed. How many people are we talking??? We all have had picnics with a couple of dozen people and never gotten a permit for it......:cool:
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Doug Huffman wrote:
'Discharge' is in the purview of village powers only IIRC

Discharge is more limiting than allowed by 66.0409
I am not getting your point. The County park in question is not in a village. The point I made is that the opinion of the Political Subdivision attorneys is that Since The State can regulate possession in parks, that they can regulate possession in parks. Similar to and not more restrictive....
 

Woodchuck

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SprayAndPray wrote:
( I also have a 2 burner outdoor cooker for the chili if someone wants me to bring it , remember we won't have electricity so crockpots wont work to keep the chili hot )

Remember....:shock:....this is the first i heard of this. Apparently missed it somewhere.

No worries though, I'll bring what I need.
 

Woodchuck

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Doug Huffman wrote:
'Discharge' is in the purview of village powers only IIRC

Discharge is more limiting than allowed by 66.0409
I am not getting your point.   The County park in question is not in a village.   The point I made is that the opinion of the Political Subdivision attorneys is that Since The State can regulate possession in parks, that they can regulate possession in parks.  Similar to and not more restrictive....   

There's no point in arguing about a "discharge" ordinance if you can't even legally "possess" a firearm.
 

RugerMan

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SprayAndPray wrote:
Well folks , I have discovered some city ordinance issues that would take longer then 2 weeks to circumvent so this event is officially moved to Bayshore Park in New Franken ( about 10 minutes North east of Green Bay)
what was the CITY ordinance in question?
 

RugerMan

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Can u give me the ordinance number I would like to see it in context.
 

Doug Huffman

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My point. The Brown County Ordinance 8.07 is 'preempted' for attempting to regulate discharge beyond what is allowed by Wisc. Statute 66.0409.

I believe that there is a legal theory related to estoppel and severability that holds that an invalid clause invalidates the main holding clause. I-ANAL Unfortunately such statutes and ordinances must be enforced.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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RugerMan wrote:
Can u give me the ordinance number I would like to see it in context.

http://www.ci.green-bay.wi.us/codebook/chp6.pdf



6.15 [font="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"][font="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"]SPECIAL EVENTS[/font][/font]. (Rep. & Rec. GO 23-03) (1) DEFINITIONS.
(b) Low Hazard Event. Special events involving no physical activity by participants, no severe exposure of spectators to hazards, and no alcoholic beverages. Low hazard events shall include, but not be limited to, indoor and outdoor meetings, small theatrical performances, and auctions.
(d) Person. Any person, firm, partnership, association, corporation, company, or organization of any kind. (e) Safety Manager. The Safety Manager of the City of Green Bay or his/her designee.
(f) Special Event. An athletic event, ceremony, demonstration, exhibition, march, pageant, parade, procession, race, show or other similar display which interferes with the normal flow or regulation of traffic upon the streets, sidewalks, or rights-of-way, or the normal use of parks or other public grounds.
(2) PERMIT REQUIRED. No person shall conduct, manage, engage in, or participate in a special event unless a permit has been obtained from the Safety Manager.

(a) Filing and Contents. An application for a special event permit shall be filed with the Safety Manager not less than 60 days before the proposed date of the event on a form to be approved by the Safety Manager. The application shall set forth the following information:
1. The name, address, and telephone number of the person seeking to conduct such event.
2. The name, address, and telephone number of the event coordinator.
3. The date when the event is to be conducted.
4. The event location or route to be traveled, the starting point, and the termination point.
5. The approximate number of persons who, and animals and vehicles which, will constitute such event; the type of animals; and description of the vehicles.
6. The hours such event will start and terminate.
7. A statement as to whether the event will occupy all or only a portion of the width of the streets proposed to be traversed.
8. The location by streets of any assembly areas for such event.
9. The time at which units of the event will begin to assemble at any such assembly area or areas.
10. The interval of space to be maintained between units of such event.
11. Whether any alcoholic beverages will be served and/or consumed in conjunction with the event, the locations of such activities, and whether the necessary licenses have been obtained.
12. Any additional information which the Safety Manager finds reasonably necessary to a fair determination as to whether a permit should be issued.
(b) Late Applications. The Safety Manager, where good cause is shown, may consider any application which is filed less than 60 days before the date such event is proposed to be conducted.
(c) Fee. A non-refundable application fee to cover the administrative costs of processing the permit shall be paid to the City by the applicant when the application is filed according to the following schedule:
1. For low hazard events, the fee shall be $25.00.
 

RugerMan

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I looked at this when I thought I would be planning the event. I don't think we qualify AS A SPECIAL EVENT any more than any other cookout or birthday party would.

I think we jumped the gun on this one. No pun intended.
 
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