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Thread: Looking for statistics

  1. #1
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    A while ago I read (somewhere, maybe here) some statistics about justifiable shootings. It was comparing LEOs to CC folks, and the rate that shootings were ruled justified. It was basically showing that the average joe tends to do a better job of deciding to shoot/not shoot. The problem is, now I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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    Some one posted a link to an Examiner article about armed LAC being "friend or foe" to LE. I just tried to find it and couldn't. Anyway it used stats from the FBI website that compared JH countsof LEO and armed LAC between areas that have "Right to Carry" (Shall issue)and "NO right to carry" (May issue).

    Here's teh FBI site:
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#cius

    I think the tables you are looking for are here:
    JH by LEO
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offe...rtable_13.html

    JH by LAC
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offe...rtable_14.html



  3. #3
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    Thanks, those are very close to what I was looking at, and could probably be used to figure it out. The one I saw was the percentage of justified vs. unjustified. IIRC, the numbers were something like 6% of shootings were deemed unjustified for LEO vs closer to 2% for LAC.

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    I haven't seen that one. That would be interesting statistics to look at. The FBI site has a huge number of statistical tables regarding crime reported. Some have expanded tables that break down the crimes better.

  5. #5
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    I started to track something like that because I asked the same exact question. I questioned it a while back when there were (I cannot recall correctly) something like5 LEO's who were shooting at armed suspect who had taken a bus hostage. I cannot remember what the number of rounds fired by the LEO's was, but it was rather high. The actual hit on target number was low -- there would be plenty of factors for that though.

    I actually took that line of thinking over to officer.com at one point and tried to get some feed back but was met with some pretty stiff resistance. I will say that having shot with a particular LEO at a range and seeing some fire marshalls shoot they aren't all bad shots. My original intent was to find out how often the LEOs were funded by the department to shoot, compared to what they had to do on their own.

    The other thing I wanted to learn, was how often they had to qual and what the qual test was. Given that data one could surmise they could practice and perform the same tests to determine what their own skill level was. That's alot of digging though.

    It also lead me to track more closely the events in my community. I read the policepress releasesdaily. I then began tracking the violent crime types and compared it to other similar types of locations - city, population size etc to see if a place with more stringent gun laws were higher in violent crime. Not surprised by the result.

    However after formatting my hard drive a few times I no longer have any of my data and I do not have any time to dedicate to recreating all that. It's out there if you want to, but it's a heck of a job. I only did one years worth, and that took some doing.

  6. #6
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    bohdi wrote:
    I started to track something like that because I asked the same exact question. I questioned it a while back when there were (I cannot recall correctly) something like5 LEO's who were shooting at armed suspect who had taken a bus hostage. I cannot remember what the number of rounds fired by the LEO's was, but it was rather high. The actual hit on target number was low -- there would be plenty of factors for that though.

    I actually took that line of thinking over to officer.com at one point and tried to get some feed back but was met with some pretty stiff resistance. I will say that having shot with a particular LEO at a range and seeing some fire marshalls shoot they aren't all bad shots. My original intent was to find out how often the LEOs were funded by the department to shoot, compared to what they had to do on their own.

    The other thing I wanted to learn, was how often they had to qual and what the qual test was. Given that data one could surmise they could practice and perform the same tests to determine what their own skill level was. That's alot of digging though.

    It also lead me to track more closely the events in my community. I read the policepress releasesdaily. I then began tracking the violent crime types and compared it to other similar types of locations - city, population size etc to see if a place with more stringent gun laws were higher in violent crime. Not surprised by the result.

    However after formatting my hard drive a few times I no longer have any of my data and I do not have any time to dedicate to recreating all that. It's out there if you want to, but it's a heck of a job. I only did one years worth, and that took some doing.
    When it comes to shooting back.... most cops/people cannot hit what they are aiming at.

    You have the added stress, head ducking, pucker factor, and adrenalin dump going against you.

    There have been shootouts caught on tape where good guys and bad guys are6 feet apart and neither can shoot the other.

    It all goes back to muscle memory and you have to train your body for months to achieve it. I shoot often at the range so I can revert back to it in case that day comes.

    Most departments only shoot one day a year. Can the cop "qualify" and achieve the minimum score? If so... OK... get back to work. I know the USSS uniform division qualifies every month but they have the cash to pay for all that ammo.

    I guess the thing to remember is that cops do not shoot at people every day. While it would be nice to be a crack shot.... the job involves so many areas that also need education and refresher training. Legal, first aid, handcuffing techniques, verbal judo, take down techniques, driving skills. These are a few thing that are used daily.

    So it is hard to make shooting a higher priority when so many other areas of the job are used more often.

    The firearm is just one of many tools available to the officer. He needs to be well trained in all the tools at his disposal but there is not enough time get the training on everything.


  7. #7
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    There have been shootouts caught on tape where good guys and bad guys are6 feet apart and neither can shoot the other.
    That's why I've revrerted to OC'ing my rapier.



  8. #8
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    smoking357 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    There have been shootouts caught on tape where good guys and bad guys are6 feet apart and neither can shoot the other.
    That's why I've revrerted to OC'ing my rapier.

    Can't go wrong there!!

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