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First Handgun

shad0wfax

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frenchdl:

Given your price range, I'd go with a slightly used XD or Glock. I love 1911's but as many others have said, you're going to be hard-pressed to find a good 1911 (and break it in) with your budget.

Also, since you plan to carry, you will need to consider holsters, spare magazines, and spare magazine pouches.

With that in mind, the new XD's (the XDM) come with 2 spare mags, a mag pouch, a holster and a total of 3 different sets of backstraps for the grips. (The old XD's come with the same stuff sans the backstraps.)

I'd be leaning towards the XD given your budget, unless you can find a Glock that has all of the accessories you'll need to carry with it or at a low enough price you can purchase all the additional accessories for carry.
 

Michigander

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.45acp wrote:
The 1911 has the best trigger of any combat auto bar none, some 1911’s will have better triggers than others, but a good Kimber will have a good trigger. Hell a bad factory trigger in a 1911 is better that a good Glock or XD trigger.
No doubt they're nice, but I don't think it's fair to call a 1911 trigger the absolute best. I've had guys with custom 1911's tell me that my P220 trigger was nicer that the pull on their 1911s. As a matter of fact, I've never had someone shoot my P220 and tell me that they liked their handgun's trigger better.
 

cREbralFIX

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Michigander wrote:
.45acp wrote:
The 1911 has the best trigger of any combat auto bar none, some 1911’s will have better triggers than others, but a good Kimber will have a good trigger. Hell a bad factory trigger in a 1911 is better that a good Glock or XD trigger.
No doubt they're nice, but I don't think it's fair to call a 1911 trigger the absolute best. I've had guys with custom 1911's tell me that my P220 trigger was nicer that the pull on their 1911s. As a matter of fact, I've never had someone shoot my P220 and tell me that they liked their handgun's trigger better.
Remember, most people focus on the tool rather than training. Additionally, they focus on target shooting over combat shooting. Given that this is opencarry.org, I believe that the focus should be on combat shooting. However, most shooters do not get exposed to that mentality and they believe they're properly preparing for a fight by shooting at stationary paper targets. The "great 1911 trigger" is just a symptom of that mindset.
 

.40 Cal

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Michigander wrote:
.45acp wrote:
The 1911 has the best trigger of any combat auto bar none, some 1911’s will have better triggers than others, but a good Kimber will have a good trigger. Hell a bad factory trigger in a 1911 is better that a good Glock or XD trigger.
No doubt they're nice, but I don't think it's fair to call a 1911 trigger the absolute best. I've had guys with custom 1911's tell me that my P220 trigger was nicer that the pull on their 1911s. As a matter of fact, I've never had someone shoot my P220 and tell me that they liked their handgun's trigger better.
Remember, most people focus on the tool rather than training. Additionally, they focus on target shooting over combat shooting. Given that this is opencarry.org, I believe that the focus should be on combat shooting. However, most shooters do not get exposed to that mentality and they believe they're properly preparing for a fight by shooting at stationary paper targets. The "great 1911 trigger" is just a symptom of that mindset.
+1 for truth
 

.45acp

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Michigander wrote:
.45acp wrote:
The 1911 has the best trigger of any combat auto bar none, some 1911’s will have better triggers than others, but a good Kimber will have a good trigger. Hell a bad factory trigger in a 1911 is better that a good Glock or XD trigger.
No doubt they're nice, but I don't think it's fair to call a 1911 trigger the absolute best. I've had guys with custom 1911's tell me that my P220 trigger was nicer that the pull on their 1911s. As a matter of fact, I've never had someone shoot my P220 and tell me that they liked their handgun's trigger better.
Remember, most people focus on the tool rather than training. Additionally, they focus on target shooting over combat shooting. Given that this is opencarry.org, I believe that the focus should be on combat shooting. However, most shooters do not get exposed to that mentality and they believe they're properly preparing for a fight by shooting at stationary paper targets. The "great 1911 trigger" is just a symptom of that mindset.

Not focusing on the equipment, personally it does not make much difference what make, cal. or model people shoot. My point was that the OP had some statements regarding the 1911 that were incorrect.

If you read my post, I never said that the 1911 was the best pistol to carry, I did correct some misconceptions and incorrect statements however.

Shadowfax, do you never shoot paper targets........The great 1911 trigger made its reputation as a combat gun...whats your beef? I have to laugh…when people are extolling the virtues of Glocks, XD’s and what not all is good….as soon as the high points of the 1911 are brought up…Well those people are equipment focused and target shooters..yeah right. :banghead:

Speaking of the mechanical aspect of a system has nothing to do with mindset....to each their own. I do prefer a 1911 but don’t really care what one shoots. Now like it or not you do need to buy the equipment BEFORE any of that training stuff can start right? This thread was started with the premise of “first pistol” and the OP was asking about three specific pistols …right?

Sig 220, I have one with a good trigger, good gun and I would never feel under armed carrying one.



Steve
 

rob99vmi04

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May 22, 2007
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frenchdl wrote:
-So I am going to purchase a handgun soon, and it will be the first one I own, not the first I have shot or handled but the first I own, I also own a few rifles and shotguns so I understand firearm saftey. I will be using it mostly just to keep at home as a self defense weapon, as well as to carry (openly for now, concealed in the future) from time to time, and of course to shoot as much as possible.

-I have it narrowed down to three guns, and I am having trouble deciding between them all, I am set between these three guns pretty firmly from the research I have done. The three are...

-Glock 17/19 - although possibly other caliber
-Springfield XD/XDM-9mm (maybe another caliber)
-1911 (probably a Springfield Armory, although I would be open to other options)

I will briefly go through some pros and cons of each.

--Glock Pros- Utter Simplicity/Extreme Reliability/Hi-Cap Magazines/many accessories/Easy to maintain and clean/easy to fix (if it ever was malfunctioning although this is unlikely)
--Glock cons-Limp wristing?/Ka-Booms?/Does not fit my hand as well as XD,XDM,1911/Kind of boring

--XD/XDM pros- Realiable/Extra features that glock does not have/Better fit/Easy to maintain and clean/More safties/Hi-Cap magazines
--XD/XDM cons- More safties and features take away from the simplicity of the gun/possibly less reliable than glock/not as "proven" as glock

--1911 pros-Classic/.45 (i realize you can get the other 2 in .45 but I would probably end up with a 9mm for ammo costs/higher capacity)/American/no plastic all metal/more accurate/
--1911 cons- only 7 or 8 round mags/more "finicky"/more prone to malfuntion/more complicated to take down clean/less "safe" than the other 2

-I plan to eventually own all three, but at the moment I am a broke college student, and $500 is ALOT OF MONEY to me currently so I need to only buy one for now. Please let me know your opinion and let me know if I have left out any pros and cons or even if my pros and cons are false or irrelevant

-By the way I feel that If I am using logic this becomes a contest between the XD(M) and a glock, and the main contest is the better grip/feel of the XD - but the simplicty/utilitarian nature/reliability of the glock, in most other regards they are very similiar. If I am going with my heart I want an American made, sleak and cool 1911....
Thanks for your help

Having all three of the guns you mentioned above I would recommend you shoot them and see which one you like best.

I have a 2 XD's one compact (wife carries it) and a "Service model" I've had it for about 3 years and maybe have put a magazine through it.

I have a 1911 that was a build off of a Caspian Frame and Slide with all top of the line parts, the gun was completely hand fitted with stones and files. The gun is amazingly accurate. I've had it for 1 year and have shot 50 rounds through it.

I own 3 Glocks 2 G19's and a G35.

My carryG19(which I've ownedfor about4 years now) so far this year have put about 3000 rounds through it. The gun gets cleaned maybe once or twice a year, and has never malfunctioned. I can replace every part on the gun in less then 5 minutes and no I'm not an armorer.

All the guns you mentioned are great guns. My personal Pro's and Cons.

XD's

Pros if your coming from a 1911 then this guns grip angle is almost identical therefore switching from a Single stack 1911 to a polymer frame double stack is fairly easy.

Cons- the gun is blocky and doesn't feel very stream line to me. For me carrying it is a little difficult. However, I don't have any real good leather for it, and with anygun the holster makes the biggest difference. If the gun breaks it goes back to the factory in most cases. I don't know mainy XD armorers inmy area.

Glock

Pros-Reliable, cheap, parts are available, its one of the guns I know that can be missing springs and still shoot reliable. If it does break, purchasing a $15 video or a trip to Glock talk can generally cure this. Or look under the nearest rock you can generally find a Glock armorer hiding with a Glock Armorers tool.
 

cREbralFIX

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.45acp wrote:
cREbralFIX wrote:
Michigander wrote:
.45acp wrote:
The 1911 has the best trigger of any combat auto bar none, some 1911’s will have better triggers than others, but a good Kimber will have a good trigger. Hell a bad factory trigger in a 1911 is better that a good Glock or XD trigger.
No doubt they're nice, but I don't think it's fair to call a 1911 trigger the absolute best. I've had guys with custom 1911's tell me that my P220 trigger was nicer that the pull on their 1911s. As a matter of fact, I've never had someone shoot my P220 and tell me that they liked their handgun's trigger better.
Remember, most people focus on the tool rather than training. Additionally, they focus on target shooting over combat shooting. Given that this is opencarry.org, I believe that the focus should be on combat shooting. However, most shooters do not get exposed to that mentality and they believe they're properly preparing for a fight by shooting at stationary paper targets. The "great 1911 trigger" is just a symptom of that mindset.

Not focusing on the equipment, personally it does not make much difference what make, cal. or model people shoot. My point was that the OP had some statements regarding 1911 that were incorrect.

If you read my post, I never said that the 1911 was the best pistol to carry, I did correct some misconceptions and incorrect statements however.

Shadowfax, do you never shoot paper targets........The great 1911 trigger made it reputation as a combat gun...whats your beef? I have to laugh…when people are extolling the virtues of Glocks, XD’s and what not all is good….as soon as the high points of the 1911 are brought up…Well those people are equipment focused and target shooters..yeah right. :banghead:

Speaking of the mechanical aspect of a system has nothing to do with mindset....to each their own. I do prefer a 1911 but don’t really care what one shoots. Now like it or not you do need to buy the equipment BEFORE any of that train stuff can start right? This thread was started with the premise of “first pistol” and the OP was asking about three specific pistols …right?

Sig 220, I have one with a good trigger, good gun and I would never feel under armed carrying one.



Steve
Except that people were referring to the trigger system as a major selling point of the 1911.

Our ancestors knew what they were doing when they made the double action revolver. It was about speed at the expense of the single action trigger. Guess what? The decades of the ninteen teens and twenties were spent...arguing over single action versus double action! Ed McGivern spent a considerable amount of time going over the argument and proving accuracy with speed was indeed possible with double action revolvers (the devices used look hilarious). A large chunk of Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting covers this topic. In fact, McGivern advocated changing only the grips to fit the hand and some sort of light attracting front sight on combat arms. He wrote that training trumps gear and directed training beats casual plinking and target shooting every time.

I assert that, in the vast majority of cases, trigger does not matter. Simply put, any person who is diligent in their practice and applies some sort of scientific method to their practice WILL be able to control their handgun to a level sufficient for combat shooting.
Additionally, any person who applies the principles of tactics to their practice will be MORE prepared for a violent encounter than one who does not. People who instead focus on gear...be it 3.5# connectors for Glocks or doodads for 1911's are fooling themselves into believing they can buy proficiency or an edge. Gunsmiths around the world thank such folks for their business daily.

I really don't care if someone carries a revolver, a Glock, high end 1911, XD, HK, PPK or anything else. Have a gun that's reliable and capable of striking the human body at 0-45 feet. Four to eight inch groups are just fine in a fight. But, more importantly, understand that there should be understanding behind the purchase and training. Unfortunately, many folks fall for competition techniques masquerading as valid combat techniques.
 
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