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Thread: Younger Generation

  1. #1
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    So I'm just curious for the "younger" OCers out there, do you guys ever get the from the generations after us. I'm 23, so society still views us as mostly incompetent, trouble making youth. The only real problems I've had with anyone saying anything while OCing is usually along the lines of being too young and stupid to have the right to self defense. Just curious as to what everyone else is hearing out there. Seemsthey don't mind medeploying to Afghanistan. They're all for me being young and having a gun, but just not in my own house and neighborhood.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    proud_to_serveUSAF wrote:
    they don't mind medeploying to Afghanistan.
    That would be my answer even if I chose to answer and thank you for your service.

    Carry On!

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Bear in mind that this is from a grouchy old curmudgeon who also is a veteran (as if that's any big deal).

    Being as kind, polite and respectful as you can, pull out your active duty military ID and ask them why it's OK for you to die for them overseas but not OK for you to protect yourself and your family here in the USA.

    Then walk away without looking back. Smile to yourself.

    stay safe. In your case I think"Thanks for your service." is included in my standard tag line.

    skidmark
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    Bear in mind that this is from a grouchy old curmudgeon
    and if you don't personally know skid, I can vouch for him

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Being that Im only a young buck of 19; every once and awhile I'll see an older feller give the old disapproving head shake as if to say "kids these days, you dont know how dumb it is to give away the element of surprise." I have also had some fellers point out their concern for my carryinga 1911 in condition 1 to which oneguy stated, "thats dangerous carryin like that boy, just a negligent discharge waitin to happen." Older guys tend to think sometimes that I dont know anything about firearms on a count of I am so young, but thats okay. I reckon my not having a beard or 'stache dont help mattersneither.

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    carried since 18, and am now 20. I have a problem with being too professional about my carry haha. "i look about 27"

    In my honest opinion who cares what they think. If they disprove so be it in my opinion. I disaprove of pants being jacked up to their throats but don't say anything. "humor"

    As for the 1911 in condition 1, I carried a colt MK IV commander for my first 6 months, and had 2 older guys in mcdonalds catch me as i was going out the door. they said.

    "You know your guns cocked right?"

    "well ill be!!! looks like its ready to go! thanks for pointing that out sirs"

    end.

    Just some lose change on the matter

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    Been open carrying since 18, never a problem.

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    nova wrote:
    Been open carrying since 18, never a problem.
    Ya.. but you are Andre the Giant! I am not going to ask you for anything!

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    "why it's OK for you to die for them overseas but not OK for you to protect yourself and your family here in the USA."


    Let's be honest people.... Just because you are 21 and in the military does not mean you good at decision making. It does help you grow up but I have seen some real idiots in the military.

    Sure.. you can join the military and die for your country as a young adult. But most that are under 23are NOT in charge,do not make life or death decisions on their own, and all theydo is take orders from those that are older and outrank them.

    I served in the military so I know. You do what you are told and there are very few instances you need to "decide" anything for yourself and by yourself. Often times it is a collective of the blind leading the blind collaborating and picking the best option in the absence of someone in charge.

    Soin reality.. to die overseashas little if nothing to do with being able to protect yourself in the US.Overseas.. you have people watching and monitoring your activities.

    In the US... you are alone.

    I have seen many young adults with guns do dumb things. They made a decision and it was wrong. That wouldbe less likely to have happened under the watchful eye of the military.

    I went to Desert Storm... I was "fighting over seas" we had NO AMMO on our person and we could not insert an emptymagazine into ourrifles. They took away all bayonets and knives.

    If we were attacked... we would be issued ammo and told what to do.

    So I guess as a soldier I can be just as trusted here in theUS as I was whilefighting overseas, huh?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I guess as a soldier I can be just as trusted here in theUS as I was whilefighting overseas, huh?
    Just one question. How many bullet(s) does your department let you carry while on duty?

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    There may be those that do not take gun safety and etiquette seriously, but I do not see that as exclusive to any age group. In our travels, we have all run across those few wayward individuals that did not have a clue about responsible gun ownership and handling. They are in the extreme minority.

    It has been my personal experience, that those amongst us who are just entering adulthood and choose to exercise their RKBA are most frequently extremely conscious of their need to do so correctly and responsibly. Perhaps they sense or anticipate that there are those that may wish to find fault because of their youth; thus strive they that much harder to do so correctly and legally. I commend them for stepping forward at this point in their lives and doing so, not in spite of others objections, but because it is the right thing - the responsible thing - to do.

    We are watching a new generation grow and mature. They are from my perspective doing quite well.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    "why it's OK for you to die for them overseas but not OK for you to protect yourself and your family here in the USA."


    Let's be honest people.... Just because you are 21 and in the military does not mean you good at decision making. It does help you grow up but I have seen some real idiots in the military.

    Sure.. you can join the military and die for your country as a young adult. But most that are under 23are NOT in charge,do not make life or death decisions on their own, and all theydo is take orders from those that are older and outrank them.

    I served in the military so I know. You do what you are told and there are very few instances you need to "decide" anything for yourself and by yourself. Often times it is a collective of the blind leading the blind collaborating and picking the best option in the absence of someone in charge.

    Soin reality.. to die overseashas little if nothing to do with being able to protect yourself in the US.Overseas.. you have people watching and monitoring your activities.

    In the US... you are alone.

    I have seen many young adults with guns do dumb things. They made a decision and it was wrong. That wouldbe less likely to have happened under the watchful eye of the military.

    I went to Desert Storm... I was "fighting over seas" we had NO AMMO on our person and we could not insert an emptymagazine into ourrifles. They took away all bayonets and knives.

    If we were attacked... we would be issued ammo and told what to do.

    So I guess as a soldier I can be just as trusted here in theUS as I was whilefighting overseas, huh?
    Some of us are entrusted with a great deal of responsibility at a very young age in military service. I can't speak for other services and the amount of trust they place in their people aged 21 and under, but the Coast Guard can and does entrust entire vessels and boat crews to a qualified coxswain that could be as young as 19 or 20 years old. Some of us are capable of making life-or-death decisions and have been forced to do so in the past.

    The crew of a Coast Guard 41' Utility boat (UTB) could all be under 21 years old, yet they will have Sig P229 .40 cal pistols, M-16 automatic rifles and even M-240B machine guns aboard their vessel. All weapons will be loaded and "ready to go" when that vessel leaves the pier.Any Coasties that is issueda weapon, it HAS AMMUNITION and is most likely LOADED. Even before 9/11, the Coast Guard maintained this readiness posture.

    I started to copy & paste the story about Nathal Bruckenthal, the only "Coastie" to be killed in combat during the present Gulf War, but you can use your own Google-Fu to check it out for yourself. Cliff Notes Version: 24 year old Coastie killed (along with 2 U. S. Navy guys) preventing a suicide boat (USS Cole-type attack) from blowing up an offshore oil terminal. This "youngster" had been doing Federal Law Enforcement in the Coast Guard since he joined at age 18.

    On a personal note, I was a 19 year old "kid" carrying a .45 working alongside other LE agencies providing security at the 1984 Olympic Games. I was involved in an incident that took place (that may or may not be still classified) where automatic weapons and explosives were captured along with some BG's. I wasn't "in charge" of anything, but I was entrusted with REAL, LIVE AMMUNITION in my LOADED pistol and expected to do my job right along with every other LEO in the area, even though many were twice my age.

    ED and SKID have it right! Stare right back at those detractorsand tell them you're old enough to serve your country and "...Defend the Constitution from ALL Enemies, Foreign AND DOMESTIC..."

    You're also old enough to defend yourself and others that aren't smart enough to defend themselves (while you look at their BARE belt where their sidearm SHOULD be...)

    Sorry... Rant Off... Just my $.02 worth (plus some)

    Mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

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    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    Been open carrying since 18, never a problem.
    Ya.. but you are Andre the Giant! I am not going to ask you for anything!


    I never served in the armed forces but I have been entrusted by a VA state agency to operate equipment and machinery capable of mass casulties if abused or misused.

    I can't believe it was already a year since I last drove that state van while unsupervised through some sooper seekret areas of VA :P People coulda died if I wasn't careful!!!

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Some of us are entrusted with a great deal of responsibility at a very young age in military service. I can't speak for other services and the amount of trust they place in their people aged 21 and under, but the Coast Guard can and does entrust entire vessels and boat crews to a qualified coxswain that could be as young as 19 or 20 years old. Some of us are capable of making life-or-death decisions and have been forced to do so in the past.

    The crew of a Coast Guard 41' Utility boat (UTB) could all be under 21 years old, yet they will have Sig P229 .40 cal pistols, M-16 automatic rifles and even M-240B machine guns aboard their vessel. All weapons will be loaded and "ready to go" when that vessel leaves the pier.Any Coasties that is issueda weapon, it HAS AMMUNITION and is most likely LOADED. Even before 9/11, the Coast Guard maintained this readiness posture.

    I started to copy & paste the story about Nathal Bruckenthal, the only "Coastie" to be killed in combat during the present Gulf War, but you can use your own Google-Fu to check it out for yourself. Cliff Notes Version: 24 year old Coastie killed (along with 2 U. S. Navy guys) preventing a suicide boat (USS Cole-type attack) from blowing up an offshore oil terminal. This "youngster" had been doing Federal Law Enforcement in the Coast Guard since he joined at age 18.

    On a personal note, I was a 19 year old "kid" carrying a .45 working alongside other LE agencies providing security at the 1984 Olympic Games. I was involved in an incident that took place (that may or may not be still classified) where automatic weapons and explosives were captured along with some BG's. I wasn't "in charge" of anything, but I was entrusted with REAL, LIVE AMMUNITION in my LOADED pistol and expected to do my job right along with every other LEO in the area, even though many were twice my age.

    ED and SKID have it right! Stare right back at those detractorsand tell them you're old enough to serve your country and "...Defend the Constitution from ALL Enemies, Foreign AND DOMESTIC..."

    You're also old enough to defend yourself and others that aren't smart enough to defend themselves (while you look at their BARE belt where their sidearm SHOULD be...)

    Sorry... Rant Off... Just my $.02 worth (plus some)

    Mike
    I am speaking from 14 years of military service and as an NCO.

    If you think everyone in the military is responsible.. your freaking nuts!

    I have been stationed with a great many people. Shall I show you the photos and the piles of beer cans from the solders I worked beside? They were all young kids out having a good time, getting drunk, and knowingly spreading VD.

    And they had NCOs telling them where to go, what to do, and when to do it. They did not have to decide on anything but what to eat for lunch. And even then.. the menu was limited.

    This entire premise on "being old enough to serve but not protect yourself" is nonsense.

    Is this supposed to be some justification or prove they are "responsible" enough to have a gun just because they served in the military?

    I do not think so!! But you keep putting all your trust in that.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am speaking from 14 years of military service and as an NCO.

    If you think everyone in the military is responsible.. your freaking nuts!

    I have been stationed with a great many people. Shall I show you the photos and the piles of beer cans from the solders I worked beside? They were all young kids out having a good time, getting drunk, and knowingly spreading VD.

    And they had NCOs telling them where to go, what to do, and when to do it. They did not have to decide on anything but what to eat for lunch. And even then.. the menu was limited.

    This entire premise on "being old enough to serve but not protect yourself" is nonsense.

    Is this supposed to be some justification or prove they are "responsible" enough to have a gun just because they served in the military?

    I do not think so!! But you keep putting all your trust in that.
    WOW! 14 years' service and they STILL didn't give you real bullets? I think I see a pattern here. Your psychosis was evident even while you were in the military. I wonder how you ever got into LE?

    I guess that's the difference between the Army and the Coast Guard. We were (and they still are) entrusted with a great deal at a very young age. We make life & death decisions in day-to-day operations. Sure, Coasties get drunk and have a good time, but can't rememberANYONE in my short 22 years of service that knowingly spread STD's. As a matter of fact, the ONE person I did know that had an STD was discharged from the service for being a bonehead.

    I won't start a branch-bashing rant because I know many fine people in all five of the armed services. There are obvious exceptions to every rule.

    It isn't rational to believethat everyone that has servedor is serving in the military is automatically responsible enough to carry a firearm.

    By your own admission, you and your colleages weren't "grown up enough" to carry live ammunition during wartime while many others your age (and possibly more that were younger) were authorized to do so; because you weren't allowed to carry ammunition or edged weapons during the war doesn't mean everyone else in the service shared your level of immaturity.

    I have the utmost confidence that my 18 year old daughter will make correct decisions if and when she is ever required to draw her .45 cal Glock.

    Some of us areentrusted by our respective military branches to make life & death decisions, to carry fully automatic weapons and deal with the public while doing so before the age of 21. Others aren't given bullets in a war zone because their peers have demonstrated a lack of maturity with ND's and other silliness like "knowingly spreading VD".

    Blanket statements about the judgement and maturity level of young adults is silly. Some have it, some dont, and some never do "get it".
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    snip....
    This entire premise on "being old enough to serve but not protect yourself" is nonsense.
    So at what age and under what conditions should they be allowed to carry.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    The law says 18 and legally entitled to possess a firearm, that's where the conversation ends for me.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    The law says 18 and legally entitled to possess a firearm, that's where the conversation ends for me.
    Who said I was asking about minimum age. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
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    I have been Open Carrying since the day I turned 18, I am now 19.

    You will always get the occasional look, stare, comment.

    Depending on the day I will either OC one of my XD's or my 1911, when I carry my 1911 I have gotten the comment about it being in condition 1, but most don't understand that is the way it was designed to be carried.

    Only ever 2 problems.

    That time in walmart where some guy freaked out on me demanding to see my proof of my "waiting period"...*shrug*



    Then the time in Autozone.....I live there, you will find me at mine about every day, for a couple of hours chattin when they are not busy. Some man with his children gave me a stare that I knew couldn't be good.

    My friend who is a manager there gets a phone call from Chesterfield County Police Department and is asked if everything was OK that there was a call in about a man with a gun in Autozone. She tells them that everything is fine and that I am always there.

    One decides to show up anyway, and try and get my ID from me to check me out. I declined respectfully. I get a "that's fine" and then some chit chat about how I should really get a CHP. (He did not know my age, nor did he ask)

    2 minor encounters in a year... that's not too bad.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    The law says 18 and legally entitled to possess a firearm, that's where the conversation ends for me.
    Who said I was asking about minimum age. :P

    Yata hey
    The cut-off age is around the time you begin forgetting your firearm at home :P



    I am 26 and have been carrying for 2 years. I have only been open carrying for the past 6 months or so, but I have notnoticed any negative reactions due to me being a bit younger than the average armed citizen.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    LEO, my collective response to all your statements:

    18-year-olds are allowed by law (and by their recognized adulthood) to carry arms to defend themselves and others. The rest is just dross.

    One thing I quickly learned as a leader in the Navy: if I treated my troops as responsible adults, with rare exception that's how they behaved. The ones who didn't meet that standard were dealt with swiftly and as harshly as allowed by the UCMJ. My Skippers rarely objected to my recommendations for punishment. I think they secretly salivated over the thought of handing out a Big Chicken Dinner.

    We as individuals don't get to decide which 18-year-olds (and up) are sufficiently responsible to carry a handgun, because we as a society (in Virginia, at least) have decided that enough of them are responsible enough not to take away their right to defend themselves.

    So what's your approach, then, LEO? If you think they're all (or enough of them) are wet-behind-the-ears snot-nosed kids who shouldn't be out of the sight of a responsible adult if they're holding anything as dangerous as a K-Bar, should we change the law and take their guns away from them?

    ~ Boyd

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Icetera wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    The law says 18 and legally entitled to possess a firearm, that's where the conversation ends for me.
    Who said I was asking about minimum age. :P

    Yata hey
    The cut-off age is around the time you begin forgetting your firearm at home :P

    I am 26 and have been carrying for 2 years. I have only been open carrying for the past 6 months or so, but I have notnoticed any negative reactions due to me being a bit younger than the average armed citizen.
    I always remember the ones that are at home. :quirky

    Gave my son his own pistol on his 18th birthday and a special CC gun when he turned 21.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I agree. There is a minimum age for a reason. After that point....who cares? If I'm 18 and you don't like that I have a gun.....good for you. Nobody is required to like that I have a gun and I don't expect for them to. My really close friend hates that I carry a gun. He tries to convince me of how stupid it is and I just ask him why he thinks I'm so concerned with how he feels about me carrying? Some people simply don't like anyone to have a gun. But its easier to say something about you if you are young. Because you are the type that might go shoot up a school or something. But then again if you are old you might go shoot up a museum so its pretty pointless.

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    richarcm wrote:
    But its easier to say something about you if you are young.* Because you are the type that might go shoot up a school or something.* But then again if you are old you might go shoot up a museum so its pretty pointless.*

    Haha, thats a good point So I guess Skid and Grapeshot are going to have to give up their firearms too. Can't trust those older types... you never know what they'll do!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    SoldierMedic wrote:
    Haha, thats a good point So I guess Skid and Grapeshot are going to have to give up their firearms too. Can't trust those older types... you never know what they'll do!
    Never pick a fight with an old man he'll just liable to..........:shock:

    There's a reason that your mama told you to respect your elders.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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