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Thread: ND at Salem Gun Show?

  1. #1
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    http://tinyurl.com/kt9rco

    Not me, someone elses reporting

    I have never heard such a loud noise followed by such an eerie silence.

    Negligent Discharge at the Salem VA gunshow. It happened two rows over directly behind me, about 40 feet away. Some guy that was working on guns was changing the buttstock on an HK91 .308 rifle when BOOOOM. For some reason everytime something wierd/crazy happens I immediately look at my watch/phone to see what time it is. It said 2:17 p.m..

    Everybody dropped down about a foot then all eyes were on him as he went down behind his table. The way he went down it looked like he was shot but apparantly the bullet went straight down through the table into the concrete. That shot concrete up into his forhead and made him drop down.

    State troopers surrounded him then he started packing up.

    If it would have happened 60 seconds(mabey less) earlier I would have only been about eight feet away. I had stood right there at the table across from his for about ten minutes filling out paper work. I handed it to the guy I was dealing with and then B-lined it over to a table with MRE/Moutian House stuff. I walked up to the table and as soon as I said hello, the SHTF.

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    probably bumped into you, i was in khaki pants and a green polo. maybe ya spotted me haha.

    Thats pretty negligent, i left apprx 15 minutes before that time.

    sets a poor example. "it happens"


    Glocky.

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    Glock_21Carrier wrote:
    probably bumped into you, i was in khaki pants and a green polo. maybe ya spotted me haha.

    Thats pretty negligent, i left apprx 15 minutes before that time.

    sets a poor example. "it happens"


    Glocky.
    wasn't me - jsut from AR15.com

    Just shows you need to follow proper firearm practices even with "unloaded" guns!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    If you hear a click sound, that'll be someone turning out the lights at the "last gun show ever held in Virginia".

    Stupid people are going to ruin it for everyone.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Glad you're okay. Good thing no one was hurt, gun shows can get pretty densely populated. :shock:



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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    posted at arf.com:
    ND at a gunshow in VA?

    Color me surprised...

    Way too common when I lived there.

    The three times I went to the Richmond Speedway/Fairgrounds Gunshow all had NDs.

    On one instance it was twice in one show:
    The one I remember the most was a dealer who had a loaded bolt-action on his table.
    A potential customer had his finger on the trigger as he picked it up and the rifle discharged.
    The .270 took out two very expensive shotguns on the next dealer's table and I took out a stack of
    gun boxes as I dove underneath the closest table.

    My buddy laughed his ass off at me until about thirty minutes later when yet another dealer
    decided to show someone his CCW piece and deftly put a round into the ceiling.

    Time to leave.

    To top it off this was a show where they couldn't sell ammo inside the main building.
    Imagine the carnage that it would have been were it otherwise.

    The Hampton Gunshow was pretty dangeous also. A couple there too.

    The best there was a dealer showing a customer a revolver that had been on a theft prevention loop.
    Handing it to the customer, the customer pulling a live round out of his pocket to see if the ammo he
    had at home 'would fit', sighting it on one of the overhead lights. The dealer managed to take
    it away from the customer but also managed to fire it into the bleachers as soon as he had it in
    his hands.

    BTW: Do they still have some of those shady gunshows at a showplace out in the middle of nowhere?
    IRRC it was out west of Richmond.
    Pattern?

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    posted at arf.com:
    ND at a gunshow in VA?

    Color me surprised...

    Way too common when I lived there.

    The three times I went to the Richmond Speedway/Fairgrounds Gunshow all had NDs.

    On one instance it was twice in one show:
    The one I remember the most was a dealer who had a loaded bolt-action on his table.
    A potential customer had his finger on the trigger as he picked it up and the rifle discharged.
    The .270 took out two very expensive shotguns on the next dealer's table and I took out a stack of
    gun boxes as I dove underneath the closest table.

    My buddy laughed his ass off at me until about thirty minutes later when yet another dealer
    decided to show someone his CCW piece and deftly put a round into the ceiling.

    Time to leave.

    To top it off this was a show where they couldn't sell ammo inside the main building.
    Imagine the carnage that it would have been were it otherwise.

    The Hampton Gunshow was pretty dangeous also. A couple there too.

    The best there was a dealer showing a customer a revolver that had been on a theft prevention loop.
    Handing it to the customer, the customer pulling a live round out of his pocket to see if the ammo he
    had at home 'would fit', sighting it on one of the overhead lights. The dealer managed to take
    it away from the customer but also managed to fire it into the bleachers as soon as he had it in
    his hands.

    BTW: Do they still have some of those shady gunshows at a showplace out in the middle of nowhere?
    IRRC it was out west of Richmond.
    Pattern?
    OK, the above has enough holes to drive a fleet of trucks through - all going sideways in single file. I'm not going to list them. Those of you that know the Richmond gun shows will have noticed them too.

    Yes, NDs are bad for everyone, and if they keep happening could put a crimp in the exhibitors' willingness to host them. But unlike HankT I do not see a pattern here, just a few incidents stretched out over an extended period of time. Some of the incidents "reported" are because of complacency, some are because of stupidity. I know of some dealers that have been "invited" not to return to any shows put on by certain promoters because of irresponsible behavior - NDs being only the worst possible. Now if only they could effectively ban certain customers.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    Hank, you seem to have fallen prey to the common misconception that the plural of "anecdote" is "data."

    ~ Boyd

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    TexasNative wrote:
    Hank, you seem to have fallen prey to the common misconception that the plural of "anecdote" is "data."

    ~ Boyd


    No NDs at the gunshow the time I went there...

    If there were multiple NDs at every show they would never get insurance, and we probably would be hearing about people getting shot.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    Hank, you seem to have fallen prey to the common misconception that the plural of "anecdote" is "data."
    Boyd, I think you mean "information," not "data."

    In any case, here is some other, um, words from the arf.com thread. Some guy named kraftwerk. (Great band.)

    kraftwerk wrote:
    I hope the show operator bans that guy for life.

    On the same subject wasn't there some story a few years ago about anti-gun people sneaking ammo in to gun shows and secretly loading guns?
    "Data" or "anecdote?"

    We know this from experience. It is "information" that is solid: Those antis should not be trusted. Theywill do anything!



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    snip.....
    It is "information" that is solid: Those antis should not be trusted. Theywill do anything!
    LOL - Hate to admit it Hank, but that was really, really good.

    Do you think.......

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    TexasNative wrote:
    Hank, you seem to have fallen prey to the common misconception that the plural of "anecdote" is "data."
    Boyd, I think you mean "information," not "data."
    That's odd, Hank. I said "data." What makes you think I meant something other than what I said? Do you have problems actually reading what people write, or are you in the habit of imposing your thoughts and opinions on others?

    The reason I didn't say "information" was that the anecdotes you provided most certainly weren't useful information. And, it's a fairly common phrase. You should look it up. You could start with a Google site search on the terms "anecdote" and "data" at this web site, now sadly defunct.

    ~ Boyd

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    Man has been charged



    Man charged in Salem gun show mishap
    Thomas Raymond Allen was helping a friend when an antique rifle went off at the Salem Civic Center.
    By Adriana Gomez Licon
    981-3114

    Man injured when rifle fires during Salem gun show
    The man who was injured when an antique rifle discharged during a gun show at the Salem Civic Center on Saturday has been charged with a misdemeanor count of recklessly handling a firearm, Salem officials said.

    Thomas Raymond Allen, 52, of Max Meadows was helping a friend who is a gun dealer replace the stock on the rifle when the military-style firearm went off, Lt. Mike Green said.

    As a result of the discharge, concrete fragments were sprayed and caused superficial wounds to Allen's face, city officials said. He was treated and released from Lewis-Gale Medical Center on the same day.

    Allen faces up to 12 months in jail or a $2,500 fine or both if convicted.

    Loaded firearms are not permitted at the gun show. An employee with the event promoter, C&E Gun Shows, checked guns at the entrance to make sure they were not loaded, said Carey Harveycutter, Salem's director of civic facilities.

    "The weapon in question did not come in through the front door of the civic center," he said.

    The rifle was brought in by one of the gun dealers, he said.

    "The dealers are expected to come with all their guns checked," Salem spokesman Mike Stevens said.

    A Salem police officer and a lieutenant worked to secure the event, and a Virginia State Police sergeant and trooper were also at the civic center.

    State police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said event promoters are in charge of coordinating security procedures at private gun shows. State police are notified about gun shows so the Firearms Transaction Center is ready to handle the volume of criminal background checks.

    Event promoters may request to have state police officers at gun shows.

    Robert Steven Elliot, president of C&E Gun Shows, could not be reached for comment Monday. The next gun show hosted by the company at the Salem Civic Center is scheduled for September.

    Between four and five years ago, there was another accident involving a firearm at the civic center, but no one was injured. A gun was being checked at the start of the show to ensure that it was empty and it accidentally went off, Stevens said.
    http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/212558

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    What comes to mind...

    Rules of safety...??

    Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire??





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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    What comes to mind...

    Rules of safety...??

    Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire??
    Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.....

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    I haven't kept stats, but it seems to me that the policy of clearing and zip-tying customer guns is irrelevent, because almost every ND at a gun show involves a dealer's gun.



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    This was a dealer gun? That can't be true. Those guys have licenses! Federal licenses! Surely a system of licensing would eliminate stupidity, wouldn't it?

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    KBCraig wrote:
    I haven't kept stats, but it seems to me that the policy of clearing and zip-tying customer guns is irrelevent, because almost every ND at a gun show involves a dealer's gun.

    If they didn't zip-tie, NDs from customers would probably go up.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    I haven't kept stats, but it seems to me that the policy of clearing and zip-tying customer guns is irrelevent, because almost every ND at a gun show involves a dealer's gun.

    If they didn't zip-tie, NDs from customers would probably go up.
    Maybe, but my carry weapon never leaves the holster when out in public, except when I'm using the toilet. Then it's safety on, unholster, reholster, safety off.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Maybe, but my carry weapon never leaves the holster when out in public, except when I'm using the toilet. Then it's safety on, unholster, reholster, safety off.
    I don't have a problem with that. Personally I'd have a CC-only policy, with anyone taking out their CC gun being ejected from the show with zero tolerance (except SD obviously, but we know that isn't likely ). The real threat is morons bringing in their gun to test-fit it for grips or something and not realizing it is loaded, or not caring.

    Another option is to preserve OC but with a policy of it leaves the holster, you leave the building.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    I haven't kept stats, but it seems to me that the policy of clearing and zip-tying customer guns is irrelevent, because almost every ND at a gun show involves a dealer's gun.

    From my understanding, it was some guys gun a dealer brought in through the backdoor to do some smithing on.



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