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Thread: ATTEMPTED e check by a security guard......

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    First I wanted to say thanks to all of you for the world of knowledge I have gained from all of your insightful post and answers to my questions, and now on to the story.

    I have been having problems with UOC and my apartment complex, security and the local PD... so last night I am walking my dogs and the new security guard comes up to me and starts asking a bunch of questions and then tried to initiate an "e" check! I told him to go to (a piece of real estate far down south with extremely hot weather). WTF?! I manage a security company... if ANY of my guards EVER did anything that stupid I would fire them in half of a second. This company needs to teach its "guards" that they are just that! I see this is funny and comical but what if I didn't know any better and handed over my nice new shiny pistol over to this clown and he drops/damages it or takes it? Yeah so thats my rant! Have a great weekend or what ever is left of it!

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    I am new here to the forums but from what i know,

    1) He has NO right as he is a Private Citizen just like you, 12031(e) check is only able to be done by LEOs.

    2) I would have taken down his name and company and called in and spoken to his Supervisor.



    610P95

    Edit for Typo

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    I know the company, they are a joke... they hire wanna be guards that feel all special because they carry a gun... so do I... soon I will be a certified instructor to certify guards to carry and I feel no more special or better then anyone out there. I really hate security guards that take the job way too seriously! As soon as my lease is up I AM OUT! this place is a total joke.

    oh and the guard company... is run from a house... only address is a PO BOX and from what I can tell its a ragged operation, I have already filed complaints with the states bureau that covers this industry. It will take 6-12 months unfortunately but hell I am in no hurry lol

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    619P95 wrote:
    I am new here to the forums but from what i know,

    1) He has NO right as he is a Private Citizen just like you, 12031(e) check is only able to be done by LEOs.
    Can somebody jog my memory? Would a private apratment complex grounds be covered by the ban on loaded carry even if inside an incorporated area?

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    Mike wrote:
    619P95 wrote:
    I am new here to the forums but from what i know,

    1) He has NO right as he is a Private Citizen just like you, 12031(e) check is only able to be done by LEOs.
    Can somebody jog my memory? Would a private apratment complex grounds be covered by the ban on loaded carry even if inside an incorporated area?
    While a private security guard can't conduct an (e) check, I believe police could inside incorporated city limits even on private property- Overturf renders private property into a "public place" if it is accessable by the public. (People v. Overturf , 64 Cal.App.3d Supp. 1)
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    Yeah, I would have told him to go pound sand too. Next time he brings it up I'd remind him that unlike LEO's where ignorance IS a defense (qualified immunity) he has no such protection and will be held accountable for his action as an individual and not as an agent of the state.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    OH wow wow I dont think i would be able to keep my composure and keep from busting out laughing at him

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    While I'm sure this isn't the case, it's private property, and if you agree to it the guard can. Did you agree to it in your lease?

    However, barring the most extreme stretch of the imagination I just mentioned, that guard is a moron.

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    Yeah it's more funny than anything I only posted this for the comedical purpose. I didn't know that when I gave them one of the handy dandy tri fold brochures that they would instantly morph in to police officers lol

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    619P95 wrote:
    I am new here to the forums but from what i know,

    1) He has NO right as he is a Private Citizen just like you, 12031(e) check is only able to be done by LEOs.
    Can somebody jog my memory? Would a private apratment complex grounds be covered by the ban on loaded carry even if inside an incorporated area?
    While a private security guard can't conduct an (e) check, I believe police could inside incorporated city limits even on private property- Overturf renders private property into a "public place" if it is accessable by the public. (People v. Overturf , 64 Cal.App.3d Supp. 1)
    OK, but would the the typical grounds of an apratment complex be a public place under Overturf? I used to live in Kingswood Village Marina (apartment complex) in Marina del Rey, CA - the buildings, parking garage,and grounds were NOT open to the general public - gates and locks were employed to keep this so - seems to me then that my complex was not a public place.

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    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    OMG! I'm late to the Mall Ninja internet meme. LMAO! In hindsight I think the movie Paul Blart: Mall Cop was based on this meme.

    Thanks for pointing me to that thread, I laughed a lot!

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    NightOwl wrote:
    While I'm sure this isn't the case, it's private property, and if you agree to it the guard can. Did you agree to it in your lease?
    Actually, the guard probably can NOT legally perform a 12031(e) check.

    If the firearm were actually loaded, the gaurd would then be in possession of a loaded weapon. The BSIS Security Guard Firearm Permit applies to only one caliber of firearm (or at least it did when I had one some years ago). If brad9point's handgun happened to be any other caliber than the one listed on the guard's card, it would be illegal for the guard to possess it.

    Further, the guard has no legal authority to perform a search. Of course, restricted private property may require a search, but they can't do it on a whim.

    NEVER surrender your rights to a security guard. They have far less power then they pretend to have. I wouldn't even stop to talk to one if they approached me. Let them call the cops if they think you're up to no good. And if they lay hands on you, press charges for battery and false imprisonment, and then sue the security company and the property owner that hired the company.
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    brad9point0 wrote:
    First I wanted to say thanks to all of you for the world of knowledge I have gained from all of your insightful post and answers to my questions, and now on to the story.

    I have been having problems with UOC and my apartment complex, security and the local PD... so last night I am walking my dogs and the new security guard comes up to me and starts asking a bunch of questions and then tried to initiate an "e" check! I told him to go to (a piece of real estate far down south with extremely hot weather). WTF?! I manage a security company... if ANY of my guards EVER did anything that stupid I would fire them in half of a second. This company needs to teach its "guards" that they are just that! I see this is funny and comical but what if I didn't know any better and handed over my nice new shiny pistol over to this clown and he drops/damages it or takes it? Yeah so thats my rant! Have a great weekend or what ever is left of it!
    a security officer is just that there to secure,and if he believes your carrying loaded he can call local pd-now listen-to make sure(e check) so that he is complying with the contract to secure that property.You do NOT own the apartment building,correct?

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    Correct, just a tenant.... for now.... as soon as my lease is up ill be out of this dump! I still cannot believe the nerve of this guy.... I should have engaged him more and just challenged him for the fun of it! I had my voice recorder on the whole time, would have been nice if he talked himself in to a corner such as calling himself a LEO etc.

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    damm renta cops! i laugh at security when they they try to act like cops, drive crown vics with lots of antennas and wanabee lights, i just lawl at them.
    i know most say its a job, but its a humiliating job

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    Why, in your opinion, is being a Security Officer "humiliating?" I employ about 60 armed, professional Security Officers most of whom are either former military or former Peace Officers. We help support the Department of Defense by providing security fora defense contractor who builds weaponry critical to our national defense.

    My people are well trained, well uniformed, well armed, well educated, and very well paid. What is so humiliating about that?

    They also know how to write complete sentences and spell simple works correctly.

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    I believe, Old Timer, that he finds his own line of work humiliating. His own profile lists "armed guard/security" as his job. He must not like it very much since he "lawls" at them.

    For the uninitiated or those without teenagers in the house "lawls" is derived from instant messaging shorthand. LOL is laughing out loud. It has been bastardized into a verb, hence to "LAWLS" at someone is to laugh out loud at them.

    A quick check of his posts confirms that grammar and sentence structure are not his forte or style, which is fine, but can lead to a misunderstanding of what he might have meant.

    I believe it was an attempt at self-deprecating humor, that's all, and not an attack on those who perform the job professionally. I am sure he wouldn't denigrate the job he does himself and only meant it as a joke.


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    nukechaser wrote:
    I believe, Old Timer, that he finds his own line of work humiliating. His own profile lists "armed guard/security" as his job. He must not like it very much since he "lawls" at them.

    For the uninitiated or those without teenagers in the house "lawls" is derived from instant messaging shorthand. LOL is laughing out loud. It has been bastardized into a verb, hence to "LAWLS" at someone is to laugh out loud at them.

    A quick check of his posts confirms that grammar and sentence structure are not his forte or style, which is fine, but can lead to a misunderstanding of what he might have meant.

    I believe it was an attempt at self-deprecating humor, that's all, and not an attack on those who perform the job professionally. I am sure he wouldn't denigrate the job he does himself and only meant it as a joke.
    I would also like to point out, he is not laughing out loud at all security guards. He specifically stated: "i laugh at security when they they try to act like cops, drive crown vics with lots of antennas and wanabee lights,..."

    So if they are a cop wannabe, but couldn't meet the requirements, and couldn't let go of "the dream", then they play act at being a "real" cop, by trying to exercise authority that they don't have.



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    nukechaser wrote:
    For the uninitiated or those without teenagers in the house "lawls" is derived from instant messaging shorthand. LOL is laughing out loud. It has been bastardized into a verb, hence to "LAWLS" at someone is to laugh out loud at them.
    I have come to the conclusion I am too old for the internet! I haven't had teenagers at home for several decades. My oldest grandkids are adults with families of their own.
    A quick check of his posts confirms that grammar and sentence structure are not his forte or style, which is fine, but can lead to a misunderstanding of what he might have meant.
    It must either be a function of my age or my education, but I still believe words mean things, and so do commas, periods, and capital letters. Not to mention nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, participles, and conjunctives.
    I believe it was an attempt at self-deprecating humor, that's all, and not an attack on those who perform the job professionally. I am sure he wouldn't denigrate the job he does himself and only meant it as a joke.
    If that is, indeed, the case, I stand corrected.

    Of the very qualified people who work for me I regularly reinforce that they are serving a very important function, their jobs are very important, and they are very important. The more I, and the other company executives, respect them, the more they respect themselves, and the more they respect themselves the more they respect their jobs. And, the more they respect their jobs the more pride they take in them and therefore are more likely to practice a higher level of diligence in their daily performance.

    Maybe it is just me. I take pride in what I do, and insist those who work for me do the same. I started 45 years ago in the military. Then as a Peace Officer. Now as a corporate manager. I have done very well over the years and have always made it my practice to like what I do and do what I like. I am of the opinion that life is about 10% circumstances and 90% how we respond to those circumstances. Contentment is a choice.

    Sorry for the rambling. Just an old man with not enough to do.
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    I was at Whole Foods when the security guard asked me if I have a permit for my legally carried XD.

    I told him I did not need one and he said "OK, someone said something so I am just here to act like I am doing something about it."

    I myself thought about being security, and might just do that. I hear the job prospects are increasing and can confirm that I have seen guards appear at businesses that have not had them for years. . . Figure the only problem is if I get convicted, then I might not be able to be a guard or even carry a firearm. . . That would be a waste of time.

    I try to show a little respect for guards, but when they start crossing those lines I simply ignore them.

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    Theseus wrote:
    I was at Whole Foods when the security guard asked me if I have a permit for my legally carried XD.

    I told him I did not need one and he said "OK, someone said something so I am just here to act like I am doing something about it."
    Interesting insight into these folks who we sometimes derisively call mall ninjas - maybe we could reverse the effect with responses to more clumsy or aggressive mall ninjas so that they can feel like they did something and the people watching them think they did somthing - like, just stop momentarily and nicely say, "Hi, OK, I know you are supposed to check me out, but thanks, but I'm just a busy shopper obeying the law, so have a nice day, see you later" and walk on.

    Just a thought.

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    Mike wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    I was at Whole Foods when the security guard asked me if I have a permit for my legally carried XD.

    I told him I did not need one and he said "OK, someone said something so I am just here to act like I am doing something about it."
    Interesting insight into these folks who we sometimes derisively call mall ninjas - maybe we could reverse the effect with responses to more clumsy or aggressive mall ninjas so that they can feel like they did something and the people watching them think they did somthing - like, just stop momentarily and nicely say, "Hi, OK, I know you are supposed to check me out, but thanks, but I'm just a busy shopper obeying the law, so have a nice day, see you later" and walk on.

    Just a thought.
    I was in a mall once and they were hassling this kid because he had the hood to his hoodie pulled over his head. They kept telling him to take it off and the kid told them to f-off, he would just leave. . . They kept running up on him with their little segways or whatever they are called.

    When I approached OC'ing as I did and told them that they were not allowed to detain the boy like that they still kept hitting him and telling me to go away, this was their mall and they make the rules.

    I will not mess with Mall Ninjas. In fact, I don't go to the malls anymore because there have been too many shootings in them and the security still don't have guns.

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    Theseus wrote:
    I was at Whole Foods when the security guard asked me if I have a permit for my legally carried XD.

    I told him I did not need one and he said "OK, someone said something so I am just here to act like I am doing something about it."

    I myself thought about being security, and might just do that. I hear the job prospects are increasing and can confirm that I have seen guards appear at businesses that have not had them for years. . . Figure the only problem is if I get convicted, then I might not be able to be a guard or even carry a firearm. . . That would be a waste of time.

    I try to show a little respect for guards, but when they start crossing those lines I simply ignore them.
    Yeah, not an uncommon question put to OCers by non-guards... with the usual answer and him saying THAT, I would have tried to not bust out laughing and whispered to him that we could do a skit, like he could follow me around at a few paces peering over the top of a convenient newspaper while I pretend not to notice. He gets to look like he's doing something, I prove his RP's suspicion unwarranted. :celebrate

    If you're acquitted, even if you can get free training for armed security, the BSIS fees cost $$, and so do the requals every 5-6 months (prices may vary, as they're charged privately, not governmentally).

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    N6ATF wrote:
    If you're acquitted, even if you can get free training for armed security, the BSIS fees cost $$, and so do the requals every 5-6 months (prices may vary, as they're charged privately, not governmentally).
    The school I work with, Security Officer Training Center, charges $50 for a requal and the state requires 4 requals over the life of an Exposed Carry License (the 4th requal being the initial qual for the new license). However, they provide the range fee, ammunition, and gun rental, all included in the $50 requal fee.

    Getting your guard card and gun card is what costs so much, but if you get them both at the same time you can save money on the live scan fees. But, nevertheless, expect to spend about $500 for both.


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