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Thread: OCDO Press Release: ACLU of Colorado Takes on Illegal Searches of Open Carriers in Loveland, CO

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    For Immediate Release - July 19, 2009[/b]


    ---[/b]


    ACLU of Colorado Takes on Illegal Searches of Open Carriers[/b]


    “Sterile” Open Carry Urged for Loveland, CO to Counter “Check Point Hecker”[/b][/b]

    OpenCarry.org joins the ACLU of Colorado in expressing alarm at Loveland, CO Police Chief Luke Hecker’s policy that police officers may detain and search any person possessing a firearm and not release them until they provide identification and acquiesce to serial number checks on that firearm.

    Hecker’s police officers reportedly detained and searched a 71 year old man openly carrying a holstered handgun at Lake Loveland. As a bullying tactic, the police ominously warned the man that “he could expect similar treatment should similar encounters occur in the future.” See http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=23999 & http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=24014.

    Apparently Loveland Police Chief Luke (“Check Point”) Hecker slept through those classes at the police academy about the Fourth Amendment – you know, that funny little footnote on constitutional privacy which the Supreme Court has said means the police cannot constitutionally:

    · Detain people just because they are carrying a gun (Florida v. J.L.[/i])

    · Demand identification from people walking about town (Kolender v. Lawson[/i])

    · Seize citizens’ personal property in order to view serial numbers (Arizona v. Hicks[/i])




    “What’s next in Loveland?,” asks John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, “will the police start seizing cell phones to check sim cards?”
    In response to the apparent ongoing and reaffirmed policy of Chief Hecker to target open carriers for harassment, OpenCarry.org urges gun owners who might happen to live in or travel through Loveland, CO to open carry without carrying identification, a practice known as “sterile carry,” and to refrain from answering police questions until they have a lawyer present.

    Until Check Point Hecker gets his policies straight, his officers can "expect similar treatment should similar encounters occur in the future.”

    Carry on!


    ###

    Media Contacts:

    OpenCarry.org co-founders:
    John Pierce: John AT OpenCarry.org
    Mike Stollenwerk: Mike AT OpenCarry.org

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Excuse me Mike, you must have missed the part where the forum unanimously agreed that the ACLU is responsible for the Holocaust and Stalin's purges. Oh, and are generally evil collectivists who want to take your guns.




    But seriously, good for them. If the ACLU doesn't want to lose face by changing their official stance on the 2nd Amendment, it makes sense to support those who have other rights violated while legally exercising their RKBA.

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    Mike wrote:







    As a bullying tactic, the police ominously warned the man that “he could expect similar treatment should similar encounters occur in the future.”
    They also said to me just at the end and out of the blue, "No one has thrown you to the ground." That is a direct quote. There was no prefice and no following remark. It was not at all within any context of any ofthe event. I had no response. My jaw just dropped.

    And, Mike and John: Thanks for getting involved like this. You are AWESOME!!

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    I missed the part in the constitution where is said people "have the right to not be frightened"? Did anyone else catch that? Becuase I didn't. Just because some ignorant anti is frightened by my carrying a gun, doesn't mean that my rights go out the window.

    As far as the search being a "safety precaution for the cops," they are, again, NO DIFFERENT than any other citizen and NO citizen has the right to takemyrightsaway.They have chosen to "protect and SERVE" as a JOB! Their uniform and badgedoesn't elevate their standing as a citizen.

    Put it the other way around. If they wish to allow this, then I should be able to detain ANY police officer, seize his firearm,demand identificationand "check if they are both clear and legal" for my own personal safety, becuase I don't know what the police officer's intentions are...:celebrate


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    I have carried in Loveland without harressment, yet that is...

    I have seen that open carry is not done often here, but it needs to be.

    I think it is time for a gathering ofOC's in northern Colorado, specifically Loveland!


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    FYI- Hit this new Poll on the Reporter Herald Site! Hiden near bottom of Front Page.

    Spead the word!

    http://www.reporterherald.com/





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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    Mike wrote:









    As a bullying tactic, the police ominously warned the man that “he could expect similar treatment should similar encounters occur in the future.”
    They also said to me just at the end and out of the blue, "No one has thrown you to the ground."
    This is(&was) frightening to me. An old person might well fear a heart attac, stroke, or broken hip. One might die on the spot or spend the rest of one's life in a convelescent hospital. Maybe one must be elderly to have this concern. . .

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    Trailmaster wrote:
    FYI- Hit this new Poll on the Reporter Herald Site! Hiden near bottom of Front Page.

    Spead the word!

    http://www.reporterherald.com/



    Here are the current numbers...
    Would it bother you to see someone carrying a holstered handgun in public?

    Yes 351 (20.06%)

    No 1399 (79.94%)

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    DoubleR wrote:
    Trailmaster wrote:
    FYI- Hit this new Poll on the Reporter Herald Site! Hiden near bottom of Front Page.

    Spead the word!

    http://www.reporterherald.com/



    Here are the current numbers...
    Would it bother you to see someone carrying a holstered handgun in public?

    Yes 351 (20.06%)

    No 1399 (79.94%)
    Final:

    Yes 347 (19.96%)

    No 1752 (80.04%)

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    http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=23999

    I signed up and posted. My comments are as follows.
    I have 3 things to add to this:
    1) No laws were broken during this incident. Neither Mr. Miller nor LPD violated any laws. Yes, Colorado is an open carry state however, expect to raise some flags when you choose to exercise this right. Just beacuse it is LEGAL doesn't mean that it is RIGHT (would the incident have happened if Mr. Miller would have chosen a more suitable location to test his holster?) I applaud the person who was concerned and notified LPD even though I disagree with her judgement.
    2) LPD was just doing their job. LPD responded to a concern from someone in the area and acted within the scope of the law. The situitation could have been handled better, I agree and I am sure that LPD is resolving the issue with the officer on their end with some form of awareness training. Given the recent events that have happened near the lake, Mr. Miller could have used some common sense in this situitation as well (don't pour gas on buring coals!).
    3)School officials did the right thing! What was the main reason for the school lockdown? The safety of our children. I would rather the school be locked down for Mr. Miller than have it open during a real active shooter event. Consider it another version of a fire drill or a test of the school's emergency procedures. If a simple drill in an effort to protect our children ruins your day then step back and re-evaluate your priorities.
    At the least I hope that everyone learned from this event, either to use some common sense when dealing with sensitive issues such as firearms near family areas/schools; or dealing with law abiding citizens (and police officers)in a respectful manner; or that the citizens here in Loveland care about their community and have the conviction to act if they notice someone with a firearm than just sit back without concern for others, especially for our children.



    1) Your incorrect .I read the police report, and they detained Mr. Miller because someone called in a complaint about him having a gun. That does not meet the legal requirement to detain him, therefore they did “break the law”, which is why the ACLU is looking into this case. There are other similar cases around the country where agency’s have been/are being taken to task for such unlawful behavior, and that is as it should be. It would be a dangerous road to travel where the police can just stop anyone they feel like for any reason they deem fit. That would be a society without rule of law, and would quickly dwindle into a police state
    2) No, they were not, “just doing their job”. If that were so, then this wouldn’t be an issue. Their “job” is to enforce laws, harassing law abiding citizens (which is what they did here) is not, “their job”.
    3) If you think locking down a school makes children safer, then it’s no wonder why your so off on your other points. It doesn’t protect your children.


    and to the other poster:
    “… I know all about the Constitution and the rights it affords. And in my business, I also know how much it costs the City to defend something like this and personally I would rather see that money going to other, worthwhile causes - you know, like education, maybe. Especially in this economic climate. JMO.”




    If you feel the city is wasting money on this, then maybe (just maybe) you should voice your opposition to the violation of a citizen’s rights. Had the officers not violated this mans rights, then there would be no, “costs to the city to defend something like this…”

    Don’t blame the citizen who did nothing wrong. It’s the police who acted out of line, and that is why they are in a position to, “…defend something like this…”

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    A quick note, notice how facts get lost through forums. The emails to the Reporter Herald state that all schools were in lock down because of Mr Millers actions. Interesting, this event happened after 6pm, and was not near any school. NO schools were placed in lockdown. Amazing how anti's use hysterics to make their point

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    jrwalker wrote:
    I missed the part in the constitution where is said people "have the right to not be frightened"? Did anyone else catch that? Becuase I didn't. Just because some ignorant anti is frightened by my carrying a gun, doesn't mean that my rights go out the window.
    Since when is a SECURED handgun in a holster frightening? Holstered handguns are the common way that all police carry handguns. Mexican carry, an AK across the chest with a sling, or a weapon in the hand can be frightening, possibly even a threat depending on the state you are in. I drove a taxi. If someone approached me in one of those modes I would have drawn on them. A holstered handgun does not even cause even the slightest elevation in my threat colors.

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    You all are invited to join me at Lake Loveland for sterile carry picnic . . .

    Wednesday, August 26 5:30pm (or when you can get there) at the Statue of Liberty.

    Potluck - bring food, plan to share. Video cameras encouraged, as are chairs, etc. There's not much there, from what I remember.

    I'm sure that you all wouldn't even think of it, but just in case, soft drinks only, please.

    I'll be wearing the Libertarian Party of Washington shirt and Taurus Titanium .38. (And probably blue jeans and shoes. ;o)

    Rachel H.
    Seattle area, but Colorado Front Range homegirl

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    Rachael

    Welcome to the Colorado family. I dont recall a Staute of Liberty at Lake Loveland, but please note. North park is too close to Loveland High. This incident took place at South Park. The actual Address was 531 W Eisenhower Blvd. ( You can google map the address)



    Myself and the infamous Bill Miller (opencarrybilly) will be glad to join you.

    OK folks, alot of us have been talking about doing this, and it took an out of state lady to get it started. Lets all show up.

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    Carguy and opencarry billy -

    The Statue of Liberty is on south shore (on Eisenhower), there's a parking lot there. I'm not sure that there is much else . . .

    I'm looking forward to it, guys - have invited all my Libertarian Party of Colorado buds - and Ladies of Liberty Alliance, and L.Neil Smith . . .

    Might just be us 3, but I doubt it!



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    My face is red! The confusion about the statue of liberty was my fault. I was sitting across the desk from carguy when he was responding. I am guilty of saying there was no statue of liberty. But, I just drove past there andTHERE IS ONE just as described. I have driven past it a thousand times.

    I will now claim slippage of the transmissi0on due to age, eat my pablum, and take my nap.

    See ya all on the 26th.

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    Will Be There!

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    RayeHawk wrote:
    You all are invited to join me at Lake Loveland for sterile carry picnic . . .

    Wednesday, August 26 5:30pm (or when you can get there) at the Statue of Liberty.

    Potluck - bring food, plan to share. Video cameras encouraged, as are chairs, etc. There's not much there, from what I remember.

    I'm sure that you all wouldn't even think of it, but just in case, soft drinks only, please.

    I'll be wearing the Libertarian Party of Washington shirt and Taurus Titanium .38. (And probably blue jeans and shoes. ;o)

    Rachel H.
    Seattle area, but Colorado Front Range homegirl
    Rachel-

    Are we still on for this? Also, someone who is familiar with protests suggested that we try to have some "neutral" observers present, and some with video cameras. He suggested contacting nlg.org. I did. No luck. Would you like to organize something like this? I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to. No tallent for organizing. Maybe just friends who, for that day, would not be carrying. ??

    Thanks for organizing this.

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    Yes, we're still on. I'll work on the observers. )

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    Mike wrote:

    For Immediate Release - July 19, 2009[/b]




    ACLU of Colorado Takes on Illegal Searches of Open Carriers[/b]


    OpenCarry.org joins the ACLU of Colorado in expressing alarm at Loveland, CO Police Chief Luke Hecker’s policy that police officers may detain and search any person possessing a firearm and not release them until they provide identification and acquiesce to serial number checks on that firearm.
    +P+



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