Explain to me HOW to open carry in Utah

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combatcarry wrote:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong... As long as you aren't on a public street, or a posted prohibited area it doesn't matter anyway... Load 'er up. For instance I'm going into bear country this weekend with a bunch of guys in the Boulder Mountains. We're gonna be open carrying (for bear and other protection). We'll be carrying fully loaded revolvers regardless if we have a permit or not.

Here is the link to the applicable law: http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getCodeSection?code=76-10-505

Btw.. I agree with Charles. Firing position includes under the hammer on a revolver.

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That's how I look at it- load 'er up!(as long as the place isnt a National Park)... This was all i could find:

76-10-511. Possession of loaded firearm at residence or on real property authorized.
Except for persons described in Section 76-10-503 and 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922(g) and as otherwise prescribed in this part, a person may have a loaded firearm:
(1) at the person's place of residence, including any temporary residence or camp; or
(2) on the person's real property.


76-10-504.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

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combatcarry wrote:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong... As long as you aren't on a public street, or a posted prohibited area it doesn't matter anyway... Load 'er up. For instance I'm going into bear country this weekend with a bunch of guys in the Boulder Mountains. We're gonna be open carrying (for bear and other protection). We'll be carrying fully loaded revolvers regardless if we have a permit or not.

Here is the link to the applicable law: http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getCodeSection?code=76-10-505

Btw.. I agree with Charles. Firing position includes under the hammer on a revolver.

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You are correct. The prohibition against carrying a loaded firearm only applies to public streets and prohibited locations.

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Ok, a 5-shot revolver (SA or DA) does not matter fro what I am thinking to legally have 4 rounds in that gun and still be legal.

Carry with the hammer back on an empty cylinder, the first pull of the trigger will drop it on the empty cylinder, the second pull will rotate the cylinder to a live chamber,

You then have your "2" action covered to fire, right? First trigger pulls goes "click" 2nd pull goes "bang" you do not have a round inline with the barrel if it os done this way, and you still get 4 shots without needing a reload.

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I have been unable to find any legal opinion or case law on the subject other than what is in the Utah Code:

76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

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Every instructor, LEO or attorney I have ever talked to about it has explained it as a single action revolver requiring the chamber under the hammer to be empty and a double action revolver requiring the chamber under the hammer and the next chamber to be empty.

So, you are left with your own interpretation. It may be technically accurate but you could end up having to get a court to rule on it.

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rpyne wrote:

You are correct. The prohibition against carrying a loaded firearm only applies to public streets and prohibited locations.

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But be careful with that definition.

As written, public street is defined as:

10-9a-103. Definitions.

As used in this chapter:


(49) "Street" means a public right-of-way, including a highway, avenue, boulevard, parkway, road, lane, walk, alley, viaduct, subway, tunnel, bridge, public easement, or other way.

Unless a different definition is given elsewhere in code, this is likely to be the definition used in any gun case where "public street" is in question. In practical application, "public street" is very likely to include ALL public property other than obvious uninhabited/unincorporated type areas. It might also be read to include private property that constitutes places of public accommodation such as stores and their parking lots and the like unless a person has obtained specific permission from the property owner to carry a gun loaded there.

Those who wish to carry a loaded gun in compliance with State law really should give very serious consideration to obtaining a concealed weapons permit and being exempt from all such silliness and concerns.

Charles

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Nutczak wrote:

Ok, a 5-shot revolver (SA or DA) does not matter fro what I am thinking to legally have 4 rounds in that gun and still be legal.

Carry with the hammer back on an empty cylinder, the first pull of the trigger will drop it on the empty cylinder, the second pull will rotate the cylinder to a live chamber,

You then have your "2" action covered to fire, right? First trigger pulls goes "click" 2nd pull goes "bang" you do not have a round inline with the barrel if it os done this way, and you still get 4 shots without needing a reload.

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This seems a reasonable alternative. Similar to the NAA mini-revolvers and using their safety notch between chambers. No round is in firing position and being single action, the gun must cocked and then the trigger pulled (two independent actions) in order to fire a round. Technically not 'loaded" even with all 5 chambers having a live round in them.

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utbagpiper wrote:

rpyne wrote:

But be careful with that definition.

As written, public street is defined as:

10-9a-103. Definitions.

As used in this chapter:


(49) "Street" means a public right-of-way, including a highway, avenue, boulevard, parkway, road, lane, walk, alley, viaduct, subway, tunnel, bridge, public easement, or other way.

Unless a different definition is given elsewhere in code, this is likely to be the definition used in any gun case where "public street" is in question. In practical application, "public street" is very likely to include ALL public property other than obvious uninhabited/unincorporated type areas. It might also be read to include private property that constitutes places of public accommodation such as stores and their parking lots and the like unless a person has obtained specific permission from the property owner to carry a gun loaded there.

Those who wish to carry a loaded gun in compliance with State law really should give very serious consideration to obtaining a concealed weapons permit and being exempt from all such silliness and concerns.

Charles

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True... but that definition may only apply to chapter 9a of Title 10. No such definition exists for Title 76 chapter 10. But I don't know how the law is actually applied to real cases.

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althor wrote:

True... but that definition may only apply to chapter 9a of Title 10. No such definition exists for Title 76 chapter 10. But I don't know how the law is actually applied to real cases.

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As I wrote:

"Unless a different definition is given elsewhere in code, this is likely to be the definition used in any gun case where "public street" is in question. "

I'd be looking to see what various prosecutors or the AG might think about this before deciding to fully "load" an OC firearm carried without benefit of permit as I step from public sidewalk to privately owned parking lot at the mall.

Again, I think working to change the law to simply allow permit-free loaded (and/or concealed) carry is a lot better use of time, money, and other resources than is defending oneself from criminal charges after attempting to push certain definitions as far as possible in our favor.

Charles

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Nutczak wrote:

Ok, a 5-shot revolver (SA or DA) does not matter fro what I am thinking to legally have 4 rounds in that gun and still be legal.

Carry with the hammer back on an empty cylinder, the first pull of the trigger will drop it on the empty cylinder, the second pull will rotate the cylinder to a live chamber,

You then have your "2" action covered to fire, right? First trigger pulls goes "click" 2nd pull goes "bang" you do not have a round inline with the barrel if it os done this way, and you still get 4 shots without needing a reload.

Click to expand...

I would not recommend carrying with the hammer back on an empty cylinder. Normally you carry with the hammer down on the empty cylinder.

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Just get a CFP