Carrying where the sell alcohol

Walkeraviator · Jul 19, 2009

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We all dont agree on the interpretation of carrying a firearm in a bar or the bar portion of a restaraunt. But, my question has a twist to it and I thought I would get your opinion.

IN Bullitt Co, they cannot serve alcohol on Sunday. So today we go to El Nopal and the seat us in the bar area. So I start thinking, does the law apply to me since they are not permitted to serve alcohol now? And the wording specifically says "permitted to sreve alcohol for consumption on teh premisses?"

Your Take?

8th ID · Jul 19, 2009

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WOW! Now that is splitting hairs. By the wording of the KRS, it seems that you could sit there and carry. BUT how is it worded in whatever covers no Sunday sales of alcohol?

Statesman · Jul 19, 2009

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Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

I'm not a lawyer, this is my opinion and does not constitute legal advice, blah...

If you're referring to KRS 237.110 the qualifer is "licensed", not "permitted". To me, this is a true false statement, licensed, or not licensed. Therefore, if they are licensed, it matters not what day of the month it is, or if another local ordinance bans alcohol on Sunday. If they are a licensed to dispense alcohol, then it's a no no, but ONLY "if the portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;".

As long as you don't sit at the bar, or any other portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispensing alcohol, it should be ok. If the portion of the establishment is primarily used to dispense food, it should be ok to carry there.

Futhermore, in my opinion, this section applies only to conceal carry, not open carry.

Now I have a question that I've been wanting to ask. Can you consume alcohol AND carry concealed, or open?

KY_CCDW · Jul 19, 2009

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Statesman wrote:

Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

Click to expand...

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

I'm not a lawyer, this is my opinion and does not constitute legal advice, blah...

If you're referring to KRS 237.110 the qualifer is "licensed", not "permitted". To me, this is a true false statement, licensed, or not licensed. Therefore, if they are licensed, it matters not what day of the month it is, or if another local ordinance bans alcohol on Sunday. If they are a licensed to dispense alcohol, then it's a no no, but ONLY "if the portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;".

As long as you don't sit at the bar, or any other portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispensing alcohol, it should be ok. If the portion of the establishment is primarily used to dispense food, it should be ok to carry there.

Futhermore, in my opinion, this section applies only to conceal carry, not open carry.

Now I have a question that I've been wanting to ask. Can you consume alcohol AND carry concealed, or open?

I agree with you for the most part. But there is a statute that prohibits loaded firearms in bars, I've posted it before, and it applies to concealed or open carry.

They don't quote a specific law or regulation, but one of the lawyers in the CCDW class, near the end, says specifically "if you are carrying a gun and you have been drinking, you are considered to be acting wantonly". Her name and email address is in the front of the KY CCDW manual.

Statesman · Jul 19, 2009

imported post

KY_CCDW wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

Click to expand...

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

I'm not a lawyer, this is my opinion and does not constitute legal advice, blah...

If you're referring to KRS 237.110 the qualifer is "licensed", not "permitted". To me, this is a true false statement, licensed, or not licensed. Therefore, if they are licensed, it matters not what day of the month it is, or if another local ordinance bans alcohol on Sunday. If they are a licensed to dispense alcohol, then it's a no no, but ONLY "if the portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;".

As long as you don't sit at the bar, or any other portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispensing alcohol, it should be ok. If the portion of the establishment is primarily used to dispense food, it should be ok to carry there.

Futhermore, in my opinion, this section applies only to conceal carry, not open carry.

Now I have a question that I've been wanting to ask. Can you consume alcohol AND carry concealed, or open?

Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part. But there is a statute that prohibits loaded firearms in bars, I've posted it before, and it applies to concealed or open carry.

They don't quote a specific law or regulation, but one of the lawyers in the CCDW class, near the end, says specifically "if you are carrying a gun and you have been drinking, you are considered to be acting wantonly". Her name and email address is in the front of the KY CCDW manual.

I remember that now. Thank you.

I think that's a bit overbearing. Alcohol does not affect everyone the same way. Is there case law that cites this, or is this her opinion?

KY_CCDW · Jul 19, 2009

imported post

Statesman wrote:

KY_CCDW wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

Click to expand...

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

I'm not a lawyer, this is my opinion and does not constitute legal advice, blah...

If you're referring to KRS 237.110 the qualifer is "licensed", not "permitted". To me, this is a true false statement, licensed, or not licensed. Therefore, if they are licensed, it matters not what day of the month it is, or if another local ordinance bans alcohol on Sunday. If they are a licensed to dispense alcohol, then it's a no no, but ONLY "if the portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;".

As long as you don't sit at the bar, or any other portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispensing alcohol, it should be ok. If the portion of the establishment is primarily used to dispense food, it should be ok to carry there.

Futhermore, in my opinion, this section applies only to conceal carry, not open carry.

Now I have a question that I've been wanting to ask. Can you consume alcohol AND carry concealed, or open?

Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part. But there is a statute that prohibits loaded firearms in bars, I've posted it before, and it applies to concealed or open carry.

They don't quote a specific law or regulation, but one of the lawyers in the CCDW class, near the end, says specifically "if you are carrying a gun and you have been drinking, you are considered to be acting wantonly". Her name and email address is in the front of the KY CCDW manual.

Click to expand...

I remember that now. Thank you.

I think that's a bit overbearing. Alcohol does not affect everyone the same way. Is there case law that cites this, or is this her opinion?

I've just sent her an email asking that very question. When I hear from her, I'll post the response.

Walkeraviator · Jul 19, 2009

imported post

Ahh...now that makes more sense to me...i believe i was smart then to carry my weapon back to the car. As for drinking while armed...my common sense says that isnt smart so if i do it, that by definition is acting in a wanton manner...So in my opinion (its worth what you are payin for it) no...dont drink and carry...open or concealed....as for legality, i am almost 100% sure there is no law making it expressly illegal.

Remember, there is always a catch all law somewhere that will burn you...for pilots it is CFR14 Part 91.13

TheMrMitch · Jul 20, 2009

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Kind of a play on words. The laws are about WHERE you may sit, not WHEN you may sit. To me, anyhow.:dude:

KY_CCDW · Jul 20, 2009

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Okay, so in response to my question about drinking while carrying, one of the senior staff attorneys at KY Dept of Criminal Justice Training Legal Section sent me the following legal cite:

Baker v. Com., 677 S.W.2d 876 (Ky. 1984): Within meaning of statutory penal code, “wantonness” consists of an awareness of and conscious disregard of substantial and unjustifiable risk that particular result will occur; risk must be of such a nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes gross deviation from the standard of conduct that reasonable person would observe in the situation.
Doing anything while voluntarily intoxicated that causes a risk of substantial and unjustifiable harm to another is considered wanton in a court of law. Choosing to handle a firearm that is capable of discharging a bullet and killing or severely hurting someone, while drunk is not something a reasonable person would do and in fact, is a gross deviation from what a “reasonable person” would do.

Of course it does specifically state "while drunk". I don't know where the line is, I suppose it would be in the neighborhood of .08 BAC, but ANY alcohol in your blood will probably be sufficient evidence to convince a jury that your judgment was at least partially compromised.

hotrod · Jul 20, 2009

imported post

KY_CCDW wrote:

Okay, so in response to my question about drinking while carrying, one of the senior staff attorneys at KY Dept of Criminal Justice Training Legal Section sent me the following legal cite:

Baker v. Com., 677 S.W.2d 876 (Ky. 1984): Within meaning of statutory penal code, “wantonness” consists of an awareness of and conscious disregard of substantial and unjustifiable risk that particular result will occur; risk must be of such a nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes gross deviation from the standard of conduct that reasonable person would observe in the situation.
Doing anything while voluntarily intoxicated that causes a risk of substantial and unjustifiable harm to another is considered wanton in a court of law. Choosing to handle a firearm that is capable of discharging a bullet and killing or severely hurting someone, while drunk is not something a reasonable person would do and in fact, is a gross deviation from what a “reasonable person” would do.

Of course it does specifically state "while drunk". I don't know where the line is, I suppose it would be in the neighborhood of .08 BAC, but ANY alcohol in your blood will probably be sufficient evidence to convince a jury that your judgment was at least partially compromised.

It has been well established by the Commonwealth at .08. The jury's that have heard cases of DUI of under .08 have found the driver not guilty. I believe you would have to remove your firearm from its holster in order to prove wanton endangerment. The cost to defend yourself would be exceptional and I do not condone drinking while carrying. If you had to use it to defend yourself or someone else the liability would be extraordinary. Now for sitting in the bar area. I think everyone knows my position. I don't believe it to be illegal in a restaurant that receives 50% or more from food sales.

chris in va · Jul 21, 2009

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I don't believe it to be illegal in a restaurant that receives 50% or more from food sales

I'd really hate to hear you got arrested for carrying in a bar section of a restaurant...

KRS 237.110 16(e)

"Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcohloic beverages for consumption on the premises. Which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose." (emphasis mine)

KY_CCDW · Jul 22, 2009

imported post

chris in va wrote:

I don't believe it to be illegal in a restaurant that receives 50% or more from food sales

Click to expand...

I'd really hate to hear you got arrested for carrying in a bar section of a restaurant...

KRS 237.110 16(e)

"Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcohloic beverages for consumption on the premises. Which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose." (emphasis mine)

+1

hotrod · Jul 22, 2009

imported post

KY_CCDW wrote:

chris in va wrote:

I don't believe it to be illegal in a restaurant that receives 50% or more from food sales

Click to expand...

I'd really hate to hear you got arrested for carrying in a bar section of a restaurant...

KRS 237.110 16(e)

"Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcohloic beverages for consumption on the premises. Which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose." (emphasis mine)

Click to expand...

+1

There is more to the KRS than one sectionl. Go back to the previous thread on this subject and read the exemption.

Carrying where the sell alcohol

Walkeraviator

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8th ID

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Statesman

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KY_CCDW

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Statesman

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KY_CCDW

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Walkeraviator

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TheMrMitch

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KY_CCDW

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hotrod

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chris in va

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KY_CCDW

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hotrod

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