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Another refreshing Eye Opener !

Sheriff

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LEO 229 wrote:
I wanted to point out that pointing fingers at the police for not being able to get there fast enough is just not possible........
Of course it's possible. I just did it! :lol:

Andmember Free Citizen is right when he said most cops think it's their job to protect people andthink they are the only ones capable ofprotecting people. It's not their job, and they're not the only ones capable of protecting people.As a matter of fact, the show is over before they get there most of the time.
 

LEO 229

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Sheriff wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I wanted to point out that pointing fingers at the police for not being able to get there fast enough is just not possible........
Of course it's possible. I just did it! :lol:

Andmember Free Citizen is right when he said most cops think it's their job to protect people andthink they are the only ones capable ofprotecting people. It's not their job, and they're not the only ones capable of protecting people.As a matter of fact, the show is over before they get there most of the time.
Yes.. you did.. :lol:
 

jerg_064

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Dustin wrote:
thx997303 wrote:
So, armed citizens are to be considered sheep?

?

Where'd you get that from?
LEO 229 wrote:
Some sheep can be watchful and even fight back against the wolf. They can play sheep dog but the other sheep may not trust them. They prefer the sheep dog.

So you may be able to"keep the wolves at bay" but the sheep dogremoves them from the pack and prevents them from attacking other sheep. :p
FreeCitizen wrote:
This is the problem I have with LEOs (and politicians). There are an estimated 77 million to 90 million gun owners in America, and they think they are the only ones who can protect people. I don't understand where this mentality comes from.
LEO 229 wrote:
This is why sheep with guns get the attention of some sheep dogs. Normally younger dogs. The sheep dogs are truly trying to protect the sheep.

While someonevisibly armedwill certainly cause a wolf to leave and thwart a pending attack.. it just means the wolf will go someplace else and do it. It never stops the attack from ever happening.. just where and when. The wolf needs to feed and when desperate.. he will take more risk.

How are legislators and sheep dogs trying to criminalize gun ownership?

I caught the same implication from LEO 229 as thx997303 did, in fact I can't see how anyone else missed it. It's very blatant.

And for the record, if legislators weren't trying to criminalize gun ownership then this forum wouldn't exist.
 

LEO 229

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jerg_064 wrote:
I caught the same implication from LEO 229 as thx997303 did, in fact I can't see how anyone else missed it. It's very blatant.

And for the record, if legislators weren't trying to criminalize gun ownership then this forum wouldn't exist.

You pretty much bolded everything so I have no idea what your point is.. :lol:

You have not provided any instance to show how one could have themindset thattheytrying to "criminalize gun ownership"

What are they trying to do to make it a crime to own a gun?

I am not talking about carry off your private property... I am talking about... in your own home.

How??!!
 

FreeCitizen

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LEO 229 wrote:
jerg_064 wrote: You have not provided any instance to show how one could have themindset thattheytrying to "criminalize gun ownership"

What are they trying to do to make it a crime to own a gun?

I am not talking about carry off your private property... I am talking about... in your own home.

How??!!
If you want to play semantics, then fine - I was wrong. But you know what I meant. It was obvious in the context of my reply that I meant carrying a gun.
 

LEO 229

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FreeCitizen wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
jerg_064 wrote: You have not provided any instance to show how one could have themindset thattheytrying to "criminalize gun ownership"

What are they trying to do to make it a crime to own a gun?

I am not talking about carry off your private property... I am talking about... in your own home.

How??!!
If you want to play semantics, then fine - I was wrong. But you know what I meant. It was obvious in the context of my reply that I meant carrying a gun.
No.. I am addressing what you said. I have no clue what you meant other than what was clearly written. I am no mind reader.

Making ownership a crime is NOT the same as prohibiting the carry of a firearm.

But if you did not mean to say that.. I am fine with it. ;)
 

FreeCitizen

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FreeCitizen wrote:
LEO 229 wrote: This is the problem I have with LEOs (and politicians). There are an estimated 77 million to 90 million gun owners in America, and they think they are the only ones who can protect people. I don't understand where this mentality comes from. There are not only 900,000 "sheep dogs" here. MILLIONS of responsible gun owners are more than capable of protecting themselves and others if the cops and legislators would quit trying to subjugate and criminalize them. They need to understand that everyday people can keep the "wolves" at bay.
Like i said - IN THE CONTEXT OF MY POST. The red clearly informs you that I am talking about carrying guns. If you have no understanding of reading comprehension, it will be impossible to have a constructive debate with you.

edit - You know what man...I don't want to fight with you. You believe that only cops are qualified to defend the public, and I believe otherwise. I do not feel that this can go any further than that. I apologize if I came off condescending or malicious in response to your post on the story the OPer provided for the education of the masses. I only hope that you will learn to live outside the box sometime in your life.
 

LEO 229

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I guess you have not been here long enough to know that I support and encourage people to arm themselves.

I know that the police are not seconds away.

You have drawn your own incorrect conclusions from your own reading comprehension issues. :lol:
 

jerg_064

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LEO 229 wrote:
jerg_064 wrote:
I caught the same implication from LEO 229 as thx997303 did, in fact I can't see how anyone else missed it. It's very blatant.

And for the record, if legislators weren't trying to criminalize gun ownership then this forum wouldn't exist.

You pretty much bolded everything so I have no idea what your point is.. :lol:

You have not provided any instance to show how one could have themindset thattheytrying to "criminalize gun ownership"

What are they trying to do to make it a crime to own a gun?

I am not talking about carry off your private property... I am talking about... in your own home.

How??!!
National firearms act of 1934 makes me a criminal if I have a automatic weapon in my home without paying taxes and going through a bunch of registration and also severely increased the price of automatic weapons.

GCA of 1968--Felons, mental defectives, stoners, dishonorable discharged personnel, fugitives, etc.... all cannot have or own firearms....Also I still have to jump through BS background checks to buy a gun from a dealer.

There is not an "except these guys and these guns and only with extra taxes and government permission and of a certain age" after "Shall not be infringed".
 

Dustin

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jerg_064 wrote:
Dustin wrote:
thx997303 wrote:
So, armed citizens are to be considered sheep?

?

Where'd you get that from?
LEO 229 wrote:
Some sheep can be watchful and even fight back against the wolf. They can play sheep dog but the other sheep may not trust them. They prefer the sheep dog.

So you may be able to"keep the wolves at bay" but the sheep dogremoves them from the pack and prevents them from attacking other sheep. :p
FreeCitizen wrote:
This is the problem I have with LEOs (and politicians). There are an estimated 77 million to 90 million gun owners in America, and they think they are the only ones who can protect people. I don't understand where this mentality comes from.
LEO 229 wrote:
This is why sheep with guns get the attention of some sheep dogs. Normally younger dogs. The sheep dogs are truly trying to protect the sheep.

While someonevisibly armedwill certainly cause a wolf to leave and thwart a pending attack.. it just means the wolf will go someplace else and do it. It never stops the attack from ever happening.. just where and when. The wolf needs to feed and when desperate.. he will take more risk.

How are legislators and sheep dogs trying to criminalize gun ownership?

I caught the same implication from LEO 229 as thx997303 did, in fact I can't see how anyone else missed it. It's very blatant.

And for the record, if legislators weren't trying to criminalize gun ownership then this forum wouldn't exist.

Oh wow, I did miss all that.

LEO care to explain?
 

longwatch

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I like the writing on mindset, unfortunately I still hate the wolves, sheep and sheepdogs analogy. You know why? Because people take it to far and apply it to others. It is only applicable to yourself because it is there to gauge where your mindset is at this moment. If you start thinking that you are automatically a sheepdog because of your job, or experience, or whatever, you fail. I think this confusion leads to a bully mindset, and guess who now has become the wolf? Worse, it leads to overconfidence and at the wrong time a wolf will show you to be a sheep.

I think the old Cooper color codes work better as a model for your mindset.
Condition White: Unprepared
Yellow: Alert
Orange: Wary
Red: Active
 

LEO 229

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jerg_064 wrote:
National firearms act of 1934 makes me a criminal if I have a automatic weapon in my home without paying taxes and going through a bunch of registration and also severely increased the price of automatic weapons.

GCA of 1968--Felons, mental defectives, stoners, dishonorable discharged personnel, fugitives, etc.... all cannot have or own firearms....Also I still have to jump through BS background checks to buy a gun from a dealer.

There is not an "except these guys and these guns and only with extra taxes and government permission and of a certain age" after "Shall not be infringed".

You forgot to add... no person under 21 shall be permitted to purchase a handgun from a FFL dealer.

No personshall buy a firearm from a FFL dealer and fill out the form knowing they are buying it at the requestof a third party.

No person under the age of 18 shall possess a firearm unless with an adult.

Some states require you to register all your firearms.

While you have a good point... they are not making you a criminal for having the some guns... only if you do not do something required to have them.

And then there are only a few guns that are controlled. You are free to possess thousands of other guns.

The constitution does not say access to ALL gun makes and models shall not be infringed, right? ;)

If we want to take for what it really means.. we should all be allowed to buy howitzers and tanks too. These are types of guns.
 

LEO 229

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longwatch wrote:
I like the writing on mindset, unfortunately I still hate the wolves, sheep and sheepdogs analogy. You know why? Because people take it to far and apply it to others. It is only applicable to yourself because it is there to gauge where your mindset is at this moment. If you start thinking that you are automatically a sheepdog because of your job, or experience, or whatever, you fail. I think this confusion leads to a bully mindset, and guess who now has become the wolf? Worse, it leads to overconfidence and at the wrong time a wolf will show you to be a sheep.

I think the old Cooper color codes work better as a model for your mindset.
Condition White: Unprepared
Yellow: Alert
Orange: Wary
Red: Active
While a sheep could also double as a sheep dog and protect the heard.....

I think the way it works is that the sheep dog has a job and this is all he does is watch over the sheep. This is what is is there for. He is expected by the farmer to watch and chase the wolves away. The farmer could hope the sheep would do this too but he knows they are not always equiped to handle the wolf.

Obviously... the sheep are going to watch out and be aware. They look out for each other as they graze and warn everyone if the wolf appears.

The sheep dog is more powerful andable to fight the wofl when hearrives.

Can the sheep do it to? In reality.. ya! If they all joined in they could all kick his ass. But will they? Probably not.

While some sheep may bebrave and stand up to the wolf.... the other will not back them up to have greatersafety in numbers. The other sheep all run since they do not have any trainingand never planned for it. No one sheep knows what all the other are going to do.

But some people will try to make the sheep dog out to be the wolf. This is not how it works. I can also say that the sheep will end up kicking each other to death too thinking another sheepare wolves in sheep's clothing. :lol:
 

longwatch

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Last I checked there weren't any restrictions on tanks, or jet fighters or warships. Private citizens do own them.
 

longwatch

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LEO 229 wrote:
longwatch wrote:
I like the writing on mindset, unfortunately I still hate the wolves, sheep and sheepdogs analogy. You know why? Because people take it to far and apply it to others. It is only applicable to yourself because it is there to gauge where your mindset is at this moment. If you start thinking that you are automatically a sheepdog because of your job, or experience, or whatever, you fail. I think this confusion leads to a bully mindset, and guess who now has become the wolf? Worse, it leads to overconfidence and at the wrong time a wolf will show you to be a sheep.

I think the old Cooper color codes work better as a model for your mindset.
Condition White: Unprepared
Yellow: Alert
Orange: Wary
Red: Active
While a sheep could also double as a sheep dog and protect the heard.....

I think the way it works is that the sheep dog has a job and this is all he does is watch over the sheep. This is what is is there for. He is expected by the farmer to watch and chase the wolves away. The farmer could hope the sheep would do this too but he knows they are not always equiped to handle the wolf.

Obviously... the sheep are going to watch out and be aware. They look out for each other as they graze and warn everyone if the wolf appears.

The sheep dog is more powerful andable to fight the wofl when hearrives.

Can the sheep do it to? In reality.. ya! If they all joined in they could all kick his ass. But will they? Probably not.

While some sheep may bebrave and stand up to the wolf.... the other will not back them up to have greatersafety in numbers. The other sheep all run since they do not have any trainingand never planned for it. No one sheep knows what all the other are going to do.

But some people will try to make the sheep dog out to be the wolf. This is not how it works. I can also say that the sheep will end up kicking each other to death too thinking another sheepare wolves in sheep's clothing. :lol:
Again I think putting people into boxes is the wrong use of the analogy. Surely there are jobs that require the sheepdog mindset but the job itself does not make you a sheepdog, your preparedness and being equipped for the task makes you a sheepdog. Hence when Col. Grossman talks about leaving the house without a weapon, you are a sheep when the wolves come.

It's about not being a sheep when the wolf comes. That is it. Going beyond that is trying to justify something else but it does not apply to a mindset issue.
 

LEO 229

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longwatch wrote:
Again I think putting people into boxes is the wrong use of the analogy. Surely there are jobs that require the sheepdog mindset but the job itself does not make you a sheepdog, your preparedness and being equipped for the task makes you a sheepdog. Hence when Col. Grossman talks about leaving the house without a weapon, you are a sheep when the wolves come.

It's about not being a sheep when the wolf comes. That is it. Going beyond that is trying to justify something else but it does not apply to a mindset issue.

It is clearly not all inclusive to the police being the sheep dog. Any group or person who dedicates his or her life to protect others is going to be a sheep dog.

But someone going out armed for "self protection" is not a sheep dog. I think it is reserved for the special few that are dedicated and live every day in the defense of others. Self protection is not high on the list.

But an important note is what he said in the analogy.

"The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence."

Can you be a sheep dog... but be like the sheep and hate sheep dogs?



In any case.... it is an analogy and for many people it is clear to understand and drives a point home.

For others... it is flawed for many reasons. If you really want to tear it apart enough and dig deep you can findanything to say why it is bad.
 
B

Bikenut

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I am a citizen.. a "stray dog"... self sufficient yet friendly avoiding confrontations but willing to fight to preserve my life, the lives of my loved ones, and (depending on the situation) the lives of others.
 
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