Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: Mouse guns

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    I was thinking about getting a very compact, light and concealable last resort back up gun for a long time now, and I'm wondering what you guys think about it.

    Kel tec is one of the first things that come to mind, but even knowing they are decently made, I just cannot get over the cheap look. I know new Ruger LCP is kind of a newer pretteir alternative, but I have reservations about using 380 ACP in a package this light. I remember having 380 in larger and heavier Bersa Thunder 380 and and shooting it wasn't very pleasant.That if you can find (and then afford) the 380 ammo nowadays.Thatapplies to Kel tec too.

    I really like Beretta products, so I was wondering about Tomcat and Bobcat - does anyone have any experience with these 2? Bobcat I'd get in 22 LR rather than in 25 ACP (better ballistics and way cheaper), but 32 ACP Tomcat looks like a littlestronger more powerful option. Anyadvice anyone?


  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    The .32ACP round is still pretty puny as a defensive round, IMO, but there's nothing wrong with the Tomcats otherwise. Torus makes a clone that's a bit less expensive as well.

    -ljp

  3. #3
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post


    Some people don't want to rely on a rimfire cartirdge.

    Keltec P-32 is a great little gun,change the recoil spring every 150-200rds.
    The Keltec PF-9 is a great little gun as is the Kahr PM9/MK9, all fit in front pants pockets.
    The Keltec 40 (discontinued) and KahrPM/MK40 might be a little snappy.
    Don't have a keltecP-3AT but I know many that carry one in either their front or back pocket.
    The Beretta Tomcat is afat little gun for my taste.

    The Bobcat 22LR version is neat, the 950 is the SA version (iirc) cocked and locked.

    The NAA revolver's are Single Action and rimfire.

    NAA autos are quality.


    It would depend on how the gun was going to be carried.

    The KahrP (9,40,45)series fits very nicely into cargo pants pockets with no bulges.

    http://www.kahr.com/PA-1.html
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    581

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Some people don't want to rely on a rimfire cartirdge.

    Keltec P-32 is a great little gun,change the recoil spring every 150-200rds.
    The Keltec PF-9 is a great little gun as is the Kahr PM9/MK9, all fit in front pants pockets.
    The Keltec 40 (discontinued) and KahrPM/MK40 might be a little snappy.
    Don't have a keltecP-3AT but I know many that carry one in either their front or back pocket.
    The Beretta Tomcat is afat little gun for my taste.

    The Bobcat 22LR version is neat, the 950 is the SA version (iirc) cocked and locked.

    The NAA revolver's are Single Action and rimfire.

    NAA autos are quality.


    It would depend on how the gun was going to be carried.

    The KahrP (9,40,45)series fits very nicely into cargo pants pockets with no bulges.

    http://www.kahr.com/PA-1.html

    Don't Tomcat and Bobcat have almost the same outside dimensions?

    I handled a 950 recently and it didn't seem fat to me at all. Is the size same as Tomcat?

    I don't really like pocket carry - and I have too much crap in my pockets anyway - I'd probably carry IWB, and yes, i know, you can carry a full size Glock or a Beretta 92 IWB, but it's not my cup of tea. Even a 38 spl snubby feels too heavy and bulky for me IWB, I need something extremely compact and light for this mode of carry.


  5. #5
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reno, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    1,713

    Post imported post

    I like Beretta too but you should look at the comments about the tomcat on the Beretta forum. There seems to be a lot of frames breaking. My family had a tomcat where the frame broke after a few hundred rounds. Beretta replaced it for free and gave an extra magazine but I had to pay shipping. The .32 ACP is a bit hard on the aluminum frame I think. The inox version has a heavier slide which I think was supposed to make it more durable and bash the frame less by being slower in recoil, but just recently someone on the Beretta forum had a frame breakage on the inox model. (The first time I'd ever heard of it happening on an inox model, so he might have just been unlucky.) There is a titanium framed tomcat but so few were made that they are hard to come by.

    If it were me I'd probably take a bobcat over the tomcat. (They are about the same size.) The 950 jetfire is a bit smaller than the bobcat but it is only offered in .25ACP. The jetfire seems to have been a good gun because I've rarely heard of complaints. The centerfire .25 ACP cartridges are more reliable than rimfires but you should have better reliability if you buy some higher end ammunition like the CCI stingers as opposed to the cheap bulk .22lr ammo that often has duds.

    In my opinion a .22lr could be adequate if placed in the right spot.

    The Beretta pocket guns are pretty accurate for their size and have better sights than a lot of the competition.

    If you do decide to go with the tomcat, and you can't get a titanium gun I'd strongly recommend the thicker stainless steel slide version over the thinner blued steel slide version for durability reasons.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Chaingun81 wrote:


    Don't Tomcat and Bobcat have almost the same outside dimensions?

    No, the BC is fatter than the TC.

    I would take a hard look at Kahr.
    The PM9 might just be for you, 15.9 oz w//mag
    Here is a pic of a PM40 same size as 9.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    A PA 63 is a good backup from $100/139 on up.

    The 9x18 Barnaul JHP in 95 gr penetrated 3.25 inches of ice and broke into 9 pieces. Good enough for me.



  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC, ,
    Posts
    1,025

    Post imported post

    I have a Keltec P3AT. The recoil is not too bad considering the size of the weapon. It shoot quite well too. Sites are not too good but it points and shoots well anyway. I'm having some problems with mine though and would not trust it to carry. My mags are coming out. I replaced the mag catch and it is better but not fixed. Something to think about. It will require a little bit of work on your part. I did a serious fluff and buff on mine to help it along. You have to baby them a bit. Depress the mag catch when inserting mags, no combat reload. YOu cannot dry fire them. Clean them and oil them often. I like the size and weight though. If I can get the mag issue fixed I will be much happier. BTW, kel tec CS was great. They sent the new mag catch in 3 days no questions asked.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    St. Peters, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    If your not dead set on auto's look at the Ruger LCR 38 special. very nice and very consealable. I traded a Nortn American arms 380 for it and am very happy 38 sp +P are much better than .32 or .380........for about the same cost and 13.5 oz of weight


    Rick

    www.ruger.com/lcr/

  10. #10
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,067

    Post imported post

    I have a Kel-Tec P3AT and I like it just fine for ultra-concealment or super-hot summer-wear concealment. Some days are just not open-carry days...

    .380 ACP does decently well if you use the new Hornady Critical Defense ammo. It gets 10+ inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. That's not bad. It won't pass any of the windshield deflection tests and stuff, but it expands very reliably on soft targets wearing denim, parkas, etc.

    You could get a PF9 instead. It's hardly any bigger than the P3AT at all and it shoots the 9mm Luger.

    Both of them fit great in the generic IWB's made for .25 autos. (I use a little Uncle Mike's Size 0 for my P3AT)

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    914

    Post imported post

    important thing to remeber about pocket guns, especially people who state that "this or that caiber" is too small:

    unless they are on PCP, you shoot a person enough times in the face with any gun, they will leave you alone.

    carry what is comfortable, so long as you carry something.

  12. #12
    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    COTEP FOREVER!, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,379

    Post imported post

    Kahr nnow has a p380 that I have no trouble palming. It's small, man! Of course, you could always look at one of the small frame revos. I carry a 442 almost exclusively when I'm working because it disappears into my front suit pocket.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Manchester State Forest, SC
    Posts
    399

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    A PA 63 is a good backup from $100/139 on up.

    The 9x18 Barnaul JHP in 95 gr penetrated 3.25 inches of ice and broke into 9 pieces. Good enough for me.
    I absolutely concur. A PA-63 or a P-64 both make excellent, easily concealable sidearms. The fact that they're cheap, reliableand readily available is icing on the cake.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    637

    Post imported post

    I have a NAA Mini-revolver.

    http://www.naaminis.com/lrifle.html

    I don't carry it cuz CC is illegal here and OCing it would just be a joke. Just thought I toss that out there.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  15. #15
    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    COTEP FOREVER!, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,379

    Post imported post

    I don't know, it would look nice with your skirt! :P

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    263

    Post imported post

    .40 Cal wrote:
    I don't know, it would look nice with your skirt! :P
    Or as a keychain.

  17. #17
    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    COTEP FOREVER!, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,379

    Post imported post

    http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=134834073

    I found one that is my price range. What do you guys think? The dealer says it's in good shape.









    :quirky

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    637

    Post imported post

    yea...no
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  19. #19
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Manchester State Forest, SC
    Posts
    399

    Post imported post

    .40 Cal wrote:
    I found one that is my price range. What do you guys think? The dealer says it's in good shape.
    Contrary to what the gun snobs want you to believe, Ravens are excellent, if under calibered, guns. A lot of people give me **** about mine (along with my Hawes, Lorcin, RG's, Gecado, etc, but nobody will stand in front of me when I pull the trigger. I wonder why?

    It's almost like they know they work better than they give them credit for. Imagine that. :?
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    363

    Post imported post

    I have 3 pocket pistols, like them all.

    Kel-Tec may look cheap, but they go bang everytime.

    Bobcat in .22 is lots of fun and accurate too.

    DS II in .38 works too. Shoots +P too.

  21. #21
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Nobody mentioned the Taurus 709 Slim?

    It's 6.25" long, and a little less than an inch wide. Weighs 19 ounces unloaded.

    9mm is it's caliber.

    Seems like a good compromise between size and recoil.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    +1 to all Kel-Tecs. Cheap and ugly; but they do the job. The warranty and Customer Service is perfect, too. I bought a busted, beat up 1st gen P32. It had been nickel plated, badly.

    I sent it in to kel-tec because it didn't work at all, main spring was mangled, and a few other problems. It looked like someone had skidded their F350 to a stop on top of it. 2 weeks later I had a brand new hard-chromed P32. New model, old serial number. Never missed a round. I really wish I hadn't sold it... All I asked them to do was make it work.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    ixtow wrote:
    +1 to all Kel-Tecs. Cheap and ugly; but they do the job. The warranty and Customer Service is perfect, too. I bought a busted, beat up 1st gen P32. It had been nickel plated, badly.

    I sent it in to kel-tec because it didn't work at all, main spring was mangled, and a few other problems. It looked like someone had skidded their F350 to a stop on top of it. 2 weeks later I had a brand new hard-chromed P32. New model, old serial number. Never missed a round. I really wish I hadn't sold it... All I asked them to do was make it work.
    I have an older9mm P 11. Had sometrouble over the years. Some of it was likely ammo and some was definitely mag problems, but plenty was the gun. To make a loooooooong story short. Sent it to Kel Tec and got back a brand new weapon, except for theslide and barrel. Like yours, Kel Tec put the old serial # on the new frame. It has functioned flawlessly since. The only problem I've had is I can't find any ammo for it or the brand new never shot 9mm CZ 75B I recently bought at the Chantilly, Va gun show.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Plymouth, MN, ,
    Posts
    250

    Post imported post

    I have a Keltec PF9 as my more concealable option. It fits nicely in a front pocket and doesn't drag down my shorts when IWB.

    My wife has a P32. It is noticeably smaller, I could easily conceal it entirely in the palm of my hand, but too me it is too small. Feel like I need tweezers and a magnifying glass to shoot it, but then my gun of preference is a Ruger P89.

    I agree with Bravo_Sierra that you shouldn't worry too much about caliber. 6 or 7 rounds to the face of anything should definitely cause the bad guy to rethink his life choices long enough for you to get away. I'll go with a hail of .22's over pepper spray anytime.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    Daddyo wrote:
    I have a Keltec PF9 as my more concealable option. It fits nicely in a front pocket and doesn't drag down my shorts when IWB.

    My wife has a P32. It is noticeably smaller, I could easily conceal it entirely in the palm of my hand, but too me it is too small. Feel like I need tweezers and a magnifying glass to shoot it, but then my gun of preference is a Ruger P89.

    I agree with Bravo_Sierra that you shouldn't worry too much about caliber. 6 or 7 rounds to the face of anything should definitely cause the bad guy to rethink his life choices long enough for you to get away. I'll go with a hail of .22's over pepper spray anytime.
    Heh, I used to carry a P89 as well.

    I just got my PT1911AR back from hard chroming the slide. The two-tone reminds me of my stainless/aluminum P89.

    As with every gun I ever sold; wish I still had that one... ;-)

    Kel-tec seems to have problems proof-testing in-house. Their 1st and 2nd generations of a model tend to have issues, but 3rd time is usually the charm. They get a bad reputation, but the P-3AT and P-32 lines have matured enough that they can be trusted. Any older revisions, just send it in, and they'll send you back a 'latest version' with your old number on it. I don't know this to be their policy, but I have yet to see any deviation from the patern.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •