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Mouse guns

Chaingun81

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Sep 20, 2007
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Centreville, Virginia, USA
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I was thinking about getting a very compact, light and concealable last resort back up gun for a long time now, and I'm wondering what you guys think about it.

Kel tec is one of the first things that come to mind, but even knowing they are decently made, I just cannot get over the cheap look. I know new Ruger LCP is kind of a newer pretteir alternative, but I have reservations about using 380 ACP in a package this light. I remember having 380 in larger and heavier Bersa Thunder 380 and and shooting it wasn't very pleasant.That if you can find (and then afford) the 380 ammo nowadays.Thatapplies to Kel tec too.

I really like Beretta products, so I was wondering about Tomcat and Bobcat - does anyone have any experience with these 2? Bobcat I'd get in 22 LR rather than in 25 ACP (better ballistics and way cheaper), but 32 ACP Tomcat looks like a littlestronger more powerful option. Anyadvice anyone?
 

Legba

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The .32ACP round is still pretty puny as a defensive round, IMO, but there's nothing wrong with the Tomcats otherwise. Torus makes a clone that's a bit less expensive as well.

-ljp
 

Marco

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Some people don't want to rely on a rimfire cartirdge.

Keltec P-32 is a great little gun,change the recoil spring every 150-200rds.
The Keltec PF-9 is a great little gun as is the Kahr PM9/MK9, all fit in front pants pockets.
The Keltec 40 (discontinued) and KahrPM/MK40 might be a little snappy.
Don't have a keltecP-3AT but I know many that carry one in either their front or back pocket.
The Beretta Tomcat is afat little gun for my taste.

The Bobcat 22LR version is neat, the 950 is the SA version (iirc) cocked and locked.

The NAA revolver's are Single Action and rimfire.

NAA autos are quality.


It would depend on how the gun was going to be carried.

The KahrP (9,40,45)series fits very nicely into cargo pants pockets with no bulges.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1.html
 

Chaingun81

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Agent19 wrote:
Some people don't want to rely on a rimfire cartirdge.

Keltec P-32 is a great little gun,change the recoil spring every 150-200rds.
The Keltec PF-9 is a great little gun as is the Kahr PM9/MK9, all fit in front pants pockets.
The Keltec 40 (discontinued) and KahrPM/MK40 might be a little snappy.
Don't have a keltecP-3AT but I know many that carry one in either their front or back pocket.
The Beretta Tomcat is afat little gun for my taste.

The Bobcat 22LR version is neat, the 950 is the SA version (iirc) cocked and locked.

The NAA revolver's are Single Action and rimfire.

NAA autos are quality.


It would depend on how the gun was going to be carried.

The KahrP (9,40,45)series fits very nicely into cargo pants pockets with no bulges.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1.html


Don't Tomcat and Bobcat have almost the same outside dimensions?

I handled a 950 recently and it didn't seem fat to me at all. Is the size same as Tomcat?

I don't really like pocket carry - and I have too much crap in my pockets anyway - I'd probably carry IWB, and yes, i know, you can carry a full size Glock or a Beretta 92 IWB, but it's not my cup of tea. Even a 38 spl snubby feels too heavy and bulky for me IWB, I need something extremely compact and light for this mode of carry.
 

Felid`Maximus

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I like Beretta too but you should look at the comments about the tomcat on the Beretta forum. There seems to be a lot of frames breaking. My family had a tomcat where the frame broke after a few hundred rounds. Beretta replaced it for free and gave an extra magazine but I had to pay shipping. The .32 ACP is a bit hard on the aluminum frame I think. The inox version has a heavier slide which I think was supposed to make it more durable and bash the frame less by being slower in recoil, but just recently someone on the Beretta forum had a frame breakage on the inox model. (The first time I'd ever heard of it happening on an inox model, so he might have just been unlucky.) There is a titanium framed tomcat but so few were made that they are hard to come by.

If it were me I'd probably take a bobcat over the tomcat. (They are about the same size.) The 950 jetfire is a bit smaller than the bobcat but it is only offered in .25ACP. The jetfire seems to have been a good gun because I've rarely heard of complaints. The centerfire .25 ACP cartridges are more reliable than rimfires but you should have better reliability if you buy some higher end ammunition like the CCI stingers as opposed to the cheap bulk .22lr ammo that often has duds.

In my opinion a .22lr could be adequate if placed in the right spot.

The Beretta pocket guns are pretty accurate for their size and have better sights than a lot of the competition.

If you do decide to go with the tomcat, and you can't get a titanium gun I'd strongly recommend the thicker stainless steel slide version over the thinner blued steel slide version for durability reasons.
 

Marco

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Chaingun81 wrote:
Don't Tomcat and Bobcat have almost the same outside dimensions?
No, the BC is fatter than the TC.

I would take a hard look at Kahr.
The PM9 might just be for you, 15.9 oz w//mag
Here is a pic of a PM40 same size as 9.
Kahr%20PM40%20-%201.JPG
 

chiefjason

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Hickory, NC, ,
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I have a Keltec P3AT. The recoil is not too bad considering the size of the weapon. It shoot quite well too. Sites are not too good but it points and shoots well anyway. I'm having some problems with mine though and would not trust it to carry. My mags are coming out. I replaced the mag catch and it is better but not fixed. Something to think about. It will require a little bit of work on your part. I did a serious fluff and buff on mine to help it along. You have to baby them a bit. Depress the mag catch when inserting mags, no combat reload. YOu cannot dry fire them. Clean them and oil them often. I like the size and weight though. If I can get the mag issue fixed I will be much happier. BTW, kel tec CS was great. They sent the new mag catch in 3 days no questions asked.
 

XDM OWNER

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Sep 14, 2008
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St. Peters, Missouri, USA
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If your not dead set on auto's look at the Ruger LCR 38 special. very nice and very consealable. I traded a Nortn American arms 380 for it and am very happy 38 sp +P are much better than .32 or .380........for about the same cost and 13.5 oz of weight


Rick

www.ruger.com/lcr/
 

shad0wfax

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Oct 11, 2008
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Spokane, Washington, USA
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I have a Kel-Tec P3AT and I like it just fine for ultra-concealment or super-hot summer-wear concealment. Some days are just not open-carry days...

.380 ACP does decently well if you use the new Hornady Critical Defense ammo. It gets 10+ inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. That's not bad. It won't pass any of the windshield deflection tests and stuff, but it expands very reliably on soft targets wearing denim, parkas, etc.

You could get a PF9 instead. It's hardly any bigger than the P3AT at all and it shoots the 9mm Luger.

Both of them fit great in the generic IWB's made for .25 autos. (I use a little Uncle Mike's Size 0 for my P3AT)
 

Bravo_Sierra

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Jul 5, 2007
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Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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important thing to remeber about pocket guns, especially people who state that "this or that caiber" is too small:

unless they are on PCP, you shoot a person enough times in the face with any gun, they will leave you alone.

carry what is comfortable, so long as you carry something.
 

.40 Cal

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Apr 2, 2007
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COTEP FOREVER!, North Carolina, USA
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Kahr nnow has a p380 that I have no trouble palming. It's small, man! Of course, you could always look at one of the small frame revos. I carry a 442 almost exclusively when I'm working because it disappears into my front suit pocket.
 

hp-hobo

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Jun 24, 2008
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Manchester State Forest, SC
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TheMrMitch wrote:
A PA 63 is a good backup from $100/139 on up.

The 9x18 Barnaul JHP in 95 gr penetrated 3.25 inches of ice and broke into 9 pieces. Good enough for me.:dude:
I absolutely concur. A PA-63 or a P-64 both make excellent, easily concealable sidearms. The fact that they're cheap, reliableand readily available is icing on the cake.
 

hp-hobo

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Jun 24, 2008
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Manchester State Forest, SC
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.40 Cal wrote:
I found one that is my price range. What do you guys think? The dealer says it's in good shape.
Contrary to what the gun snobs want you to believe, Ravens are excellent, if under calibered, guns. A lot of people give me shit about mine (along with my Hawes, Lorcin, RG's, Gecado, etc, but nobody will stand in front of me when I pull the trigger. I wonder why?

It's almost like they know they work better than they give them credit for. Imagine that. :?
 

curtm1911

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May 9, 2008
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Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
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I have 3 pocket pistols, like them all.

Kel-Tec may look cheap, but they go bang everytime.

Bobcat in .22 is lots of fun and accurate too.

DS II in .38 works too. Shoots +P too.
 
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