BATFE - An Open Letter To All Montana Federal Firearms Licensees

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It would be good if we in ID WY MT could all coordinate and work together through State Associations to share ideas and tactics along with vocal and e-mail support to each of our elected representatives when both in and out of session:

Idaho State Rifle and Pistol Association

Wyoming Shooting Sports Association

Montana Shooting Sports Association

We could support each other on:

ID WY MT still needs to pass the no permit concealed carry with the permit still as an option for those that want a permit for travel and gun buying.

WY still needs to pass the church concealed carry (w/o having to ask permission to carry in church). MT is good to go on this.

ID WY MTstill needs to pass "bar" concealed carry.

ID WY MTstill needs to pass open and concealed carry in city, county, and state buildings and grounds - like in the state capitol, county courthouse, peace officer offices, etc- where Citizens normally conduct business everyday

ID WY MTstill needs to work with the NRA, GOA, SAF, CCRKBA, SAS, and JPFO to get Congress to allow State law carry in federal buildings where Citizens normally conduct business everyday - Post Office, Social Security, Medicare, Forest Service, BLM, etc -- just like starting in FEB 2010 conceal carry to start in National Parks !

Any other things that need fixing ?

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http://firearmsfreedomact.com/

Originally introduced and passed in Montana, the FFA declares that any firearms made and retained in-state are beyond the authority of Congress under its constitutional power to regulate commerce among the states.

Since its passage in Montana, a clone of the Firearms Freedom Act has been enacted in Tennessee, and has been introduced in the legislatures of Alaska, Texas, South Carolina, Minnesota and Florida. Legislators in many other states have announced that they will introduce FFA clones when their legislatures next convene.

The FFA is primarily a Tenth Amendment challenge to the powers of Congress under the “commerce clause,” with firearms as the object – it is a state’s rights exercise

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http://www.scribd.com/doc/17716266/Montana-Shooting-Sports-Association-Rebuttal-to-ATF-Letters

Montana Shooting Sports Association reply to the ATF.

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IDAHO COWBOY wrote:

ID WY MT still needs to pass the no permit concealed carry with the permit still as an option for those that want a permit for travel and gun buying.

...

ID WY MTstill needs to pass "bar" concealed carry.

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For what it's worth, concealed carry without permit is legal outside of city limits in Idaho. I agree that an Alaska-style permit system would be nice, but just wanted to point out that Idaho is pretty close to that right now.

With regard to the second point, can you cite a law that makes carry in a bar illegal in Idaho? My understanding is that intoxication while armed is illegal, but carry in a bar is not illegal.

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In my limited understanding, Montana and Idaho have always been pretty close 'allies' when it comes to stuff along these lines. In Montana it's already legal to OC in bars, CC is still illegal but hopefully we're coming around!!

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Montana like is ok for conceal carry without a permit except in city limits - also no requirement on one's own private property(business or residence)

Yes Montana is open carry ok with permission of the bar ownerand concealed carry in a bar is against the law (also illegalfor concealed carry anywhere booze is served is eating joint or rodeo or whatever)

Alaska Carry,I have not yet decided about their are some Rights given up under this law.

Vermont Carry, I have not yet decided about their are some Rights given up under this law.

I certainly agree NO permit should be required to carry "anywhere" and No Rights should have to be given to carry open or concealed anywhere anytime - follow the Second Amendment and abolish "all" other gun "arms" control laws would be the best deal all the way around.

No I cannot cite an Idaho on not carrying concealed in a bar ! Good point. Do you if anyone actually does this ? If so have they had any run in's with Peace Officers ?

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Minor point of clarification: we've not had "peace" officers in decades.
What we now have are "law enforcement" officers, BIG difference.

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Minor point of clarification: we've not had "peace" officers in decades.
What we now have are "law enforcement" officers, BIG difference.

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Perhaps down where you live, that is true. Up here, we still have peace officers (though there do exist law enforcement officers, as well.) Beware of painting with too broad a brush.

IdahoCowboy, I am reasonably certain that open carry and concealed carry in a bar is legal in Idaho. Again, as a caveat, intoxication while armed is against the law. (IDAHO STATUTE 18-3302B)

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Yes, open carry and concealed carry with permitis legal in Idaho liquor establishmentsas it is not prohibited in 18-33.

I went thru this with Canyon County in January (as noted in another thread). They corrected their information.

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IDAHO COWBOY wrote:

Yes Montana is open carry ok with permission of the bar ownerand concealed carry in a bar is against the law (also illegalfor concealed carry anywhere booze is served is eating joint or rodeo or whatever)

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Not so. Concealed carry is not forbidden where alcohol is served. It has to be dispensed, sold and consumed in the same room. As for a rodeo or other social mixer like that, the alcohol is dispensed from a vending trailer. Sale and consumption of said product together do not constitute a prohibition on CC.
Open carry is legal in a bar UNLESS you are asked to leave it in your vehicle or leave altogether! It does not hinge on permission. If no-one says anything, you don't have to leave. Just like any other place. If Wally-World does not ask you to leave when you're OC'ing you're fine, if they do you must respect their wishes!!

With all due respect IC, take it from people who've lived in this state, enforced these laws and researched them up one side and down the other!!
This discussion has taken place many times before in other threads. It doesn't pay to rekindle an old fire here!!

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Good idea!

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carracer wrote:

Yes, open carry and concealed carry with permitis legal in Idaho liquor establishmentsas it is not prohibited in 18-33.

I went thru this with Canyon County in January (as noted in another thread). They corrected their information.

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Roger that !

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40s-and-wfan wrote:

IDAHO COWBOY wrote:

Yes Montana is open carry ok with permission of the bar ownerand concealed carry in a bar is against the law (also illegalfor concealed carry anywhere booze is served is eating joint or rodeo or whatever)

Click to expand...

Not so. Concealed carry is not forbidden where alcohol is served. It has to be dispensed, sold and consumed in the same room. As for a rodeo or other social mixer like that, the alcohol is dispensed from a vending trailer. Sale and consumption of said product together do not constitute a prohibition on CC.
Open carry is legal in a bar UNLESS you are asked to leave it in your vehicle or leave altogether! It does not hinge on permission. If no-one says anything, you don't have to leave. Just like any other place. If Wally-World does not ask you to leave when you're OC'ing you're fine, if they do you must respect their wishes!!

With all due respect IC, take it from people who've lived in this state, enforced these laws and researched them up one side and down the other!!
This discussion has taken place many times before in other threads. It doesn't pay to rekindle an old fire here!!

Click to expand...

Below is the law of Montana, which I guess I should have posted for you. I agree with what you are saying,in my eyes I was saying the same without 99 extra words -

my generalization may have mis-led you.

a. "served ineating joint" (eating joint= room, served= ordered, sold, dispensed for consumption) which covers your words and the Montana Code - same as you mean.

b. "permission" is the word I used, permission I did not state vocal or in writing, one can be grant passive permission just by not saying anything or not doing anything - same as you mean. Kind of like you know who in Kalispell was given "a pass by the federal Postal Inspector in the parking lot while carrying" - no words spoken just simple nothing done which is a passive permission.


http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/MCA/45/8/45-8-328.htm

a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

P.S. it is "sold then dispensed then consumed" in the Montana Code not dispensed then sold then consumed

Conceal Carry allowed or not allowed by Montana Code :

Kalispell - Apple Bees ?

Kalispell - Rodeo ?



Remember the United States Postal Service discussion on the parking lot. All of you in Kalispell thought it was legal and I said all along it was not legal then in the end you yourselffound it was not legal in the parking lot.

Are you back to being a Peace Officer these days ?

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40s-and-wfan wrote:

IDAHO COWBOY wrote:

Yes Montana is open carry ok with permission of the bar ownerand concealed carry in a bar is against the law (also illegalfor concealed carry anywhere booze is served is eating joint or rodeo or whatever)

Click to expand...

Not so. Concealed carry is not forbidden where alcohol is served. It has to be dispensed, sold and consumed in the same room. As for a rodeo or other social mixer like that, the alcohol is dispensed from a vending trailer. Sale and consumption of said product together do not constitute a prohibition on CC.
Open carry is legal in a bar UNLESS you are asked to leave it in your vehicle or leave altogether! It does not hinge on permission. If no-one says anything, you don't have to leave. Just like any other place. If Wally-World does not ask you to leave when you're OC'ing you're fine, if they do you must respect their wishes!!

With all due respect IC, take it from people who've lived in this state, enforced these laws and researched them up one side and down the other!!
This discussion has taken place many times before in other threads. It doesn't pay to rekindle an old fire here!!

Click to expand...

Try this, I pulled it out of my favorites: Montana Code

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca_toc/45_8_3.htm

TITLE 45. CRIMES
CHAPTER 8. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER



Part 3. Weapons
Back Up One Level in Table of Contents

45-8-301. Uniformity of interpretation.
45-8-302. Definitions.
45-8-303. Possession or use of machine gun in connection with a crime.
45-8-304. Possession or use of machine gun for offensive purpose.
45-8-305. Presumption of offensive or aggressive purpose.
45-8-306. Repealed.
45-8-307. Exceptions.
45-8-308. Repealed.
45-8-309. Repealed.
45-8-310. through reserved.
45-8-313. Unlawful possession of firearm by convicted person.
45-8-314. Lifetime firearms supervision of certain convicted persons.
45-8-315. Definition.
45-8-316. Carrying concealed weapons.
45-8-317. Exceptions.
45-8-318. Possession of deadly weapon by prisoner or youth in facility.
45-8-319. Repealed.
45-8-320. Repealed.
45-8-321. Permit to carry concealed weapon.
45-8-322. Application, renewal, permit, and fees.
45-8-323. Denial of renewal -- revocation of permit.
45-8-324. Appeal.
45-8-325. Permittee change of county of residence -- notification to sheriffs and chief of police.
45-8-326. Immunity from liability.
45-8-327. Carrying a concealed weapon while under the influence.
45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty.
45-8-329. Concealed weapon permits from other states recognized -- advisory council.
45-8-330. Exemption of concealed weapon permittee from federal handgun purchase background check and waiting period.
45-8-331. Switchblade knives.
45-8-332. Definitions.
45-8-333. Reckless or malicious use of explosives.
45-8-334. Possession of a destructive device.
45-8-335. Possession of explosives.
45-8-336. Possession of a silencer.
45-8-337. Possession of unregistered silencer or of bomb or similar device prima facie evidence of unlawful purpose.
45-8-338. reserved.
45-8-339. Carrying firearms on train -- penalty.
45-8-340. Sawed-off firearm -- penalty.
45-8-341. Repealed.
45-8-342. Repealed.
45-8-343. Firing firearms.
45-8-344. Use of firearms by children under fourteen prohibited -- exceptions.
45-8-345. Criminal liability of parent or guardian -- prosecution.
45-8-346. through reserved.
45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms.
45-8-352. through reserved.
45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure.
45-8-361. Possession or allowing possession of weapon in school building -- exceptions -- penalties -- seizure and forfeiture or return authorized -- definitions.

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Any news on how Montana is kicking the governments ass?

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Less than 1 month until the Montana law's effective date. It will be great to see how this whole thing unfolds.

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updates