Just want to get my facts straight

hayinaz · Jul 21, 2009

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So I have read several of the posts here on the CO boards, and I just want to make sure I am getting my facts straight.

I am coming to CO for a Jeep Event in Telluride this weekend, and I would like to bring a firearm just for personal protection. So here is my understandings, please correct me if I am wrong.

I can have my firearm loaded in my console while I am traveling, except in Denver.

I can OC in the national parks, and campgrounds there in CO.

Thanks in advance.

Dynamite Rabbit · Jul 21, 2009

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Your car is the same as your house, as far as weapons go. You can have a loaded gun in the car, concealed or not, without a permit, everywhere in the state, including Denver. I would be inclined to not open carry in the car in Denver.

You CAN NOT carry a loaded weapon in any National Park until the amendment that was attached to the credit card law takes effect in February of 2010. Then you will be able to carry any way that's legal in the state.

You CAN carry openly (or concealed with a permit) in National Forests.

National Forests are much more common than Parks in Colorado.

See http://home.nps.gov/applications/parksearch/state.cfm?st=CO for a list of National Parks and Monuments in Colorado. I don't know this for a fact, but I'd bet the weapons policy in a National Monument is the same as a National Park.

edit:
On K-12 school property, you can only have a weapon in your vehicle if you have a CCW permit. From the CRS:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

FogRider · Jul 21, 2009

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Dynamite Rabbit wrote:

Your car is the same as your house, as far as weapons go. You can have a loaded gun in the car, concealed or not, without a permit, everywhere in the state, including Denver. I would be inclined to not open carry in the car in Denver.

I was under the impression that the rule is CC only in Denver, period. But you don't need a CCW to conceal in your vehicle.

hayinaz · Jul 21, 2009

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thanks for the help I appreciate it

Dynamite Rabbit · Jul 21, 2009

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FogRider wrote:

I was under the impression that the rule is CC only in Denver, period. But you don't need a CCW to conceal in your vehicle.

FogRider, now you've made me read the Meyer decision and Denver ordinances. I do believe you're correct.

Denver Revised Municipal Code, Sec. 38-117. Dangerous or deadly weapons--Prohibitions.:

(f) It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:

(2) The person is carrying the weapon concealed within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for hunting or for lawful protection of such person's or another person's person or property, while travelling, and the weapon is not an explosive device, incendiary device, or a bomb. If the weapon is a firearm being transported for hunting, it shall be unloaded while being carried within the private automobile or other private means of conveyance.

Anubis · Jul 22, 2009

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It's my opinion that the state law quoted below applies to vehicle carry, including within Denver. I don't see where the Meyer decision excepts Denver from this one, so even if the handgun is exposed to view, it shall not be considered concealed. However, my practice is to conceal inside the car anyway.

"CRS 18-12-204(3)(a): Aperson who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense;..."

Augustin · Jul 24, 2009

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hayinaz wrote:

I am coming to CO for a Jeep Event in Telluride this weekend, and I would like to bring a firearm just for personal protection.

Telluride has some kind of ordinance againce OC. While the surrounding San Juan Mountains are some of the most scenic in the entire country, the Telluride City Council and local Sheriff have no respect foryourGod-given rights. Don't OC in Telluride!

As you may already know, the near-by mountain towns of Silverton, Ouray, and Lake City are all interconnected by four wheel drive roads which range from mild to high and wild. Imogene Pass tops out at 13,114' high with many multi-thousand foot drop-offs along the way. Names like Black Bear Pass (this is the best and starts in the town of telluride), Ophir Pass, Yankee Boy Basin and many others bring life-long memories back to all those who have visited here. These mountains are touted by off-road enthusiasts as being the best, family-oriented four wheeling area to be found in the entire country.

The San Juans have earned the much-deserved reputation as the “Jeeping Capitol of the World”. The trails rate from easy to difficult and traverse a wide variety of mountainous terrain, from extremely high mountain passes to lush basins lined with waterfalls and wildflowers.

Ian · Jul 24, 2009

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Augustin wrote:

hayinaz wrote:

I am coming to CO for a Jeep Event in Telluride this weekend, and I would like to bring a firearm just for personal protection.

Click to expand...

Telluride has some kind of ordinance againce OC. While the surrounding San Juan Mountains are some of the most scenic in the entire country, the Telluride City Council and local Sheriff have no respect foryourGod-given rights. Don't OC in Telluride!

As you may already know, the near-by mountain towns of Silverton, Ouray, and Lake City are all interconnected by four wheel drive roads which range from mild to high and wild. Imogene Pass tops out at 13,114' high with many multi-thousand foot drop-offs along the way. Names like Black Bear Pass (this is the best and starts in the town of telluride), Ophir Pass, Yankee Boy Basin and many others bring life-long memories back to all those who have visited here. These mountains are touted by off-road enthusiasts as being the best, family-oriented four wheeling area to be found in the entire country.

The San Juans have earned the much-deserved reputation as the “Jeeping Capitol of the World”. The trails rate from easy to difficult and traverse a wide variety of mountainous terrain, from extremely high mountain passes to lush basins lined with waterfalls and wildflowers.

An ordinance in Telluride against OC doesn't matter because state preemption supersedes it. They can only ban OC in particular buildings/locations and they have to be properly posted.

Dynamite Rabbit · Jul 24, 2009

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Because of the Meyer decision, home rule cities claim that state law doesn't preempt anti-open carry ordinances. I don't know if Telluride is home rule, though.

I have a letter from the City of Longmont (which is a home rule city) claiming that prohibition on open carry in Longmont parks is legal (the ordinance also states that ANY carry, including concealed, is illegal). I'm trying to get them to change the ordinance regarding concealed carry, which they cannot regulate.

FogRider · Jul 24, 2009

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Ian wrote:

An ordinance in Telluride against OC doesn't matter because state preemption supersedes it. They can only ban OC in particular buildings/locations and they have to be properly posted.

I believe the particular buildings that the city has any control of are the city buildings. Privately owned businesses can still ban to their hearts content, but the city can't make them do so.

Having said that, if what Augustin said about the local sheriff is true, an out of stater might not want to push his luck. Really, it's up to the folks who live here to challenge this, not folks from other states.

Hmmm, perhaps an OC meetup in Telluride sometime?

Dynamite Rabbit · Jul 24, 2009

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I checked, and Telluride apparently is a home rule city.

Their ordinance is as follows (it looks to me like you could open carry if you have a valid concealed-carry permit):

Sec. 10-8-20. Unlawful use of weapons.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b)
below, a person commits unlawful use of weapons
if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(1) Carries on his or her person any
concealed deadly weapon.
(2) Carries on his or her person, or
possesses, any firearm, whether concealed or
not, or displays any firearm.
(3) Displays, brandishes or flourishes any
deadly weapon in a manner calculated to alarm
another person, or intentionally aims any
firearm at another person.
(4) Discharges or causes to be discharged
any firearm, air gun, gas gun, spring gun, any
instrument, toy or weapon commonly known
as a pea shooter, slingshot or beany, or a bow
or missile projector of any kind, whether such
instrument is called by a name set forth in this
Article or by any other name.
(5) Possesses any deadly weapon while
either:
a. Under the influence of intoxicating
beverages; or
b. On the premises where intoxicating
beverages area sold for consumption on the
premises.
(b) Carrying a deadly weapon shall not be an
offense if such person is:
(1) In or on his or her own dwelling, place
of business or property, or property under his
or her control.
(2) In a private motor vehicle or other pri-
vate means of conveyance and is carrying the
weapon in plain view for lawful protection of
his, her or another's person or property while
traveling.
(3) Directly proceeding to or returning
from target practice or hunting and is carrying
the weapon in plain view.
(4) In possession of a valid written permit
to carry a concealed weapon, which permit
was duly issued pursuant to state or federal
law. (Prior code 9.20.030; Ord. 1288 §1,
2008)

Sorry about the formatting -- the entire code is at http://www.telluride-co.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=810 and may be easier to read.

Augustin · Jul 27, 2009

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Dynamite Rabbit wrote:

I checked, and Telluride apparently is a home rule city.

Their ordinance is as follows (it looks to me like you could open carry if you have a valid concealed-carry permit):

Dyno,

Nice research.

However, regardingyour suggestion that OC would/should be allowed with a CWP, please understand that San Miguel Sheriff Bill Masters (who has been in office since1980) is a filthy tyrant who works for the wealthy and has no respect for the 2A.

Masters was given the job when he was only 23 years old. This ex-military redneck immediately set out to clean up the town's drug problem, and he set up a bunch of disguisting and illegal sting operations, which included masswiretapping without a warrant. When some of the town's board members objected, they were set up and put away in prisonwith planted drugs. He later authored a book (2004) called The New Prohibition: Voices of Dissent Challenge the Drug War in which he discussed the American drug war's impact on society and he even wrote about the how America's drug policies affect gun rights. What a piece of trash this anti-2A cop is. The vote is rigged in San Juan County. Masters will be re-elected for the 8th time in 2011.

My advice is don't even think of OC in Telluride or anywhere in San Juan County.

AUGustin

RockyMtnScotsman · Jul 27, 2009

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FogRider wrote:

Ian wrote:

An ordinance in Telluride against OC doesn't matter because state preemption supersedes it. They can only ban OC in particular buildings/locations and they have to be properly posted.

Click to expand...

I believe the particular buildings that the city has any control of are the city buildings. Privately owned businesses can still ban to their hearts content, but the city can't make them do so.

Having said that, if what Augustin said about the local sheriff is true, an out of stater might not want to push his luck. Really, it's up to the folks who live here to challenge this, not folks from other states.

Hmmm, perhaps an OC meetup in Telluride sometime?

I'm headed that way in a few weeks on a motorcycle trip so we'll see.....

Ian · Aug 15, 2009

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Dynamite Rabbit wrote:

I checked, and Telluride apparently is a home rule city.

Their ordinance is as follows (it looks to me like you could open carry if you have a valid concealed-carry permit):

Sec. 10-8-20. Unlawful use of weapons.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b)
below, a person commits unlawful use of weapons
if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(1) Carries on his or her person any
concealed deadly weapon.
(2) Carries on his or her person, or
possesses, any firearm, whether concealed or
not, or displays any firearm.
(3) Displays, brandishes or flourishes any
deadly weapon in a manner calculated to alarm
another person, or intentionally aims any
firearm at another person.
(4) Discharges or causes to be discharged
any firearm, air gun, gas gun, spring gun, any
instrument, toy or weapon commonly known
as a pea shooter, slingshot or beany, or a bow
or missile projector of any kind, whether such
instrument is called by a name set forth in this
Article or by any other name.
(5) Possesses any deadly weapon while
either:
a. Under the influence of intoxicating
beverages; or
b. On the premises where intoxicating
beverages area sold for consumption on the
premises.
(b) Carrying a deadly weapon shall not be an
offense if such person is:
(1) In or on his or her own dwelling, place
of business or property, or property under his
or her control.
(2) In a private motor vehicle or other pri-
vate means of conveyance and is carrying the
weapon in plain view for lawful protection of
his, her or another's person or property while
traveling.
(3) Directly proceeding to or returning
from target practice or hunting and is carrying
the weapon in plain view.
(4) In possession of a valid written permit
to carry a concealed weapon, which permit
was duly issued pursuant to state or federal
law. (Prior code 9.20.030; Ord. 1288 §1,
2008)

Sorry about the formatting -- the entire code is at http://www.telluride-co.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=810 and may be easier to read.

Apparently Telluride is home rule. I was under the impression that Denver was only a home rule city because of the whole Denver county thing though. Telluride is not in Telluride County, but I still see a lot of sources that say it is home rule.

After looking into it more, I would also advise to not OC in Telluride.

centsi · Aug 21, 2009

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OC in Telluride, and any other municipality outside Denver, is legal IMHO, and here's why: The Meyers decision relied on Denver's special circumstance in deciding that OC was a matter of local concern, specifically Denver's population density:

However, I agree with the City's argument that open carrying is a matter of purely local concern, at least insofar as Denver is concerned. Denver is by far the most densely populated area of Colorado.

No other city can claim the same status. Had the decision read, " I agree with the City's argument that open carrying is a matter of purely local concern", without the caveat, "at least insofar as Denver is concerned." that might be a different story. Obviously most of us know that OC is legal throughout ALL of Colorado because 13A protects it, and that 13A is a "fundamental" right regardless of what the CO courts say. They might even recognize that now in light of Heller, or be forced to do so in the near future because of a related case.

In any case, other municipalities cannot use the Meyers decision to justify an OC ban.

centsi · Aug 21, 2009

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One more thing: Any municipality with a population of 2,000 or more can get a state charter as a "Home Rule" municipality.

Just want to get my facts straight

hayinaz

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Dynamite Rabbit

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hayinaz

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